Except the trade period isn't over and we will be looking to trade back up the order this year as per Simmo in his press conference today.
List Mgmt. All Trades and Draft Part 2- Draft edition
- Thread starter Miguel Sanchez
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Shitting his dacks. Dimma already emailing Gil for the last 12 Richmond home games to be played at the MCG in 2020.
The way he’s performed this year under immense football and personal pressure I’m going to suggest he’ll be just fine.
IMO he can only get better.
With the family pressure removed he can focus on the footy even more and go to another level altogether.
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My 2 cents:
1. Happy we got Kelly.
2. Annoyed we paid so much 4 him.
3. Can see Gaff etc being traded next year to get into the top end of the draft due to this.
4. If we win a flag while Kelly is on the list the trade is a success.
5. Go Eagles
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1. Happy we got Kelly.
2. Annoyed we paid so much 4 him.
3. Can see Gaff etc being traded next year to get into the top end of the draft due to this.
4. If we win a flag while Kelly is on the list the trade is a success.
5. Go Eagles
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- May 8, 2012
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Even if we dont win a flag we have one of the best mids in the comp that will help the kids around him developMy 2 cents:
1. Happy we got Kelly.
2. Annoyed we paid so much 4 him.
3. Can see Gaff etc being traded next year to get into the top end of the draft due to this.
4. If we win a flag while Kelly is on the list the trade is a success.
5. Go Eagles
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lol with what?
Apparently we were the team to beat this year coz you know we won a flag. Gonna be fun it's the dueling dynasties potentially if you get this year it will be almost a dynasty if we win this year it will almost be a dynasty too. Either way both clubs are gonna be up and about.
On draft pick numbers if our first rounder next year ends up at 26 (the lowest ever straight up first round pick 2011 draft) and geelong finish with their 3rd round pick at say 52 (same as the third rounder we're taking to this draft) It's the points equivalent of pick 2.
Our result is anything worse than that and thats with an almost 50% extension to the first round and we are either paying pick 1 or more.
Now I rate Kelly and wanted us to draft him (at 26, so i wasn't in with a shot) but lets have a real hard look at our side and also throw every player in the league into the draft.
Kelly is either the 3rd or 4th best mid at the club.
No club in Australia would pick Kelly above Mcgovern.
It is highly unlikely any club in Australia would take Kelly before Darling.
On a body of work, age and contract would they take Gaff or Kelly? Really depends on needs.
Then lets make a little list of other players.
Hurn
Sheppard
Nicnat
Kennedy
So we just paid either pick 1 or pick 2 for a guy who is 26, has had 2 years in the afl system (one very, very good but i still wouldn't have said he was in the top 5-10 players this year regardless of brownlow or coaches voting) For a player that is somewhere in the heirarchy on the clubs list of 6-10th most important player.
Even if you consider our first rounder next year the equivalent of a mid second rounder I can absolutely ******* guarantee you we could have turned our first this year into 2 picks in the 20's and lets look at it this as a best case scenario for us as a club.
We trade 14 for 23 and 28 (adelaide) We will have likely traded 5 picks between 23 and 33 for 1 player and two picks around 50-60. Now if we don't finish top of the ladder and have a few injuries and geelong stay right at the pointy end then it could very well be the equivalent of 14,23,24,28,33 for Kelly 50 and 52.
If we don't win the premiership it's a straight loss anyway you look at it.
Our result is anything worse than that and thats with an almost 50% extension to the first round and we are either paying pick 1 or more.
Now I rate Kelly and wanted us to draft him (at 26, so i wasn't in with a shot) but lets have a real hard look at our side and also throw every player in the league into the draft.
Kelly is either the 3rd or 4th best mid at the club.
No club in Australia would pick Kelly above Mcgovern.
It is highly unlikely any club in Australia would take Kelly before Darling.
On a body of work, age and contract would they take Gaff or Kelly? Really depends on needs.
Then lets make a little list of other players.
Hurn
Sheppard
Nicnat
Kennedy
So we just paid either pick 1 or pick 2 for a guy who is 26, has had 2 years in the afl system (one very, very good but i still wouldn't have said he was in the top 5-10 players this year regardless of brownlow or coaches voting) For a player that is somewhere in the heirarchy on the clubs list of 6-10th most important player.
Even if you consider our first rounder next year the equivalent of a mid second rounder I can absolutely ******* guarantee you we could have turned our first this year into 2 picks in the 20's and lets look at it this as a best case scenario for us as a club.
We trade 14 for 23 and 28 (adelaide) We will have likely traded 5 picks between 23 and 33 for 1 player and two picks around 50-60. Now if we don't finish top of the ladder and have a few injuries and geelong stay right at the pointy end then it could very well be the equivalent of 14,23,24,28,33 for Kelly 50 and 52.
If we don't win the premiership it's a straight loss anyway you look at it.
Maylandsman
🐯EAT ‘EM ALIVE🐯
Yes indeed. Can’t wait for the season proper and we should get to play you at Optus this year.
- Nov 27, 2014
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Is the strike rate between 24 + 33 really that more likely than 52 + 57 + 2020 3rd? We get 3 speculative picks instead of 2.. and TK for a couple of late firsts. Only looks bad when you start overrating draft numbers. The reality is after 25 you’re in a lottery anyway. We have given up 24 and 33 but still get 3 of the same “lottery” selections. Hopefully we have our eye on Garcia.
Think we’re being unrealistic if we thought we were going to shaft them.. we’re always very fair (sometimes too fair) but we always get our man. We were all saying similar things with the Wellingham and Redden trades but look at those drafts and let me know which players around those picks you’d have preferred (obviously besides Grundy who we wouldn’t have selected anyway).
Think we’re being unrealistic if we thought we were going to shaft them.. we’re always very fair (sometimes too fair) but we always get our man. We were all saying similar things with the Wellingham and Redden trades but look at those drafts and let me know which players around those picks you’d have preferred (obviously besides Grundy who we wouldn’t have selected anyway).
The 2020 premiership cup looks smaller compared to the others but who cares it is a premiership cup.
It’s the most inconsequential sure, but sometimes it’s just the principal of it. It would sorta be like if we traded pick 25 for pick 26. I mean who really cares, right? That’s immaterial, but also unquestionably stupid and would make me pissed off at our administration.
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- May 8, 2012
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We were up by 6 goals too before it turned wet which suited the Tigers after that point. I fear them less than the rampaging Hawks of a few years back.
Forward Press
Hall of Famer
Your post would make sense if the club wanted another Jeremy McGovern. But we don't. We want ready made elite midfielders but they either re-signed (Coniglio), tied to purple (Fyfe) or there is a lulz chance of them ever coming here (Dangerfield, Martin etc).
Draft picks are overrated. If you want to win a flag now holding firm and letting Kelly walk to the Dockers because they were happy to stump up is far, far worse than this trade.
To be fair, I don't think we would have been anywhere near as inclined to make sure he sees out his contract, if his manager hadn't adamantly ruled out Fremantle as an option early on in the piece. Most within the footy world agreed, that you can't get drafted, say you're happy to go interstate, ask to break your contract under compassionate grounds, but still only leave 1 option available (no player since Nathan Buckley has done this, and that's why they changed draft contracts). It seemed disingenuous at best. Completely different story this year, as he'd honoured his contract and had every right to nominate you guys (just like any other player).
I've seen you be pretty strong on this in the past, but we didn't act selfishly. We drafted a player, who turned out to be good, and then wanted to leave 1 year into his contract but only go to a fellow contender. We couldn't meet on a trade price (whether you believe we acted in good faith or not), and so he was retained.
The comments and good will might not accurately reflect the entire duration, but the knowledge that I have regarding his and Caitlyn's social network, alongside visits from Matthew Stokes and club support staff regularly, that were employed to make his life as comfortable as possible, suggested that this year was 10x better than last year. He was genuinely tossing up between staying at stages. He also had a regular column with the Geelong Advertiser and regularly hung out with guys outside of 'work.' A player who's disgruntled, doesn't behave like that. Nor does he have the exemplary season that he had this year.
I also respectfully disagree with your comments re: coming back to Victoria. Caitlyn, Grian, Gemma and TK have all become good friends and hang out often. I could definitely see the Kelly's coming down (while one of the family babysits) and staying with them, Narkle, Cockatoo, Ratugolea, Parfitt etc. If you see her instagram, she regularly had photos with those guys and 'stories' and what not.
I say all of this with the caveat that Scott's comment in the media both times, were not helpful. If you think he pisses you off, you have no idea how much he pisses me and other fans off.
I know I won't change your mind, as you've held this view for a while, but TK isn't writing articles like he did after the prelim where he poured his heart out about how much it hurt and how hard his decision was to make because he loves the club and the boys, if he's as upset with us as you purport. I definitely think him and Caitlyn were a bit pi**ed off at our senior management and some rogue disgusting fans last year, but I don't think we're the monsters that you've made us out to be. The fact that we negotiated in good faith so early on in the piece without making you do the legwork for trades (something a lot of clubs won't do, lol), means that we obviously care about what's best for TK.
I'm sure we're at an impasse, and I'm definitely not here to argue lol, as it's done now. You have your position, but we move on and you get to enjoy watching an exemplary person and player that you'll have for the next 7 years or so. We get to have an exciting trade period where we see what picks we can get/without having to listen to all the mind-numbing minutia that comes with trade radio speculation on TK. I genuinely am happy for him, and honestly I think both our clubs this year (despite however you may feel about last year), have acted wonderfully and ensured trade relations and public perception of being 'good clubs to trade with', stay in place. Discounting last year, we've always been labelled as one of the best clubs to trade with, as its usually done with minimal fuss. I believe your club is usually the same.
Anyway, I digress. I hope our clubs and supporters can move past last year and focus on this year, as I've never really had a problem with West Coast as a club.
About time I got out of bed. Have a good one
Thank you for the respectful post, and you're by far the best Geelong supporter on the website. I really do mean that, a lot of your fellow fans have been massive campaigners.
That being said, I think you might be somewhat missing the point of what I'm getting at. I wasn't saying that Kelly was annoyed with you to support what I was saying, but that it isn't as clear cut as you seem to think it is. Posts on Instagram and newspaper columns aren't the pure, unfiltered opinion of Tim, as you seem to be getting at - it really is a guess for everyone looking in from outside.
My main aggrievance with your club is that it acted in a way that was morally reprehensible. This isn't something I just fling onto things I dislike; based on the what Geelong did in 2018, those actions were far worse than you might realise. Perhaps I'm just biased, but I don't use those terms without a strong reason behind it. What your club did can't really be brushed aside.
Shortly after he was drafted, Tim Kelly's children were diagnosed with autism. That was why he said it was fine to go interstate beforehand, and why he requested a trade in the first year of his contract. It is far removed from any similar case precisely for this reason - it isn't simply a player wanting out selfishly, but he needed to get home due to extraordinary circumstances outside of his control. The gravity of this situation cannot be understated; he truly needed the support network in Perth, and Geelong could (unfortunately) never provide the sort of help needed, because this required his entire family. A situation of this gravity is extremely rare in the AFL, and I'm pretty certain something like this hasn't happened before.
However, there is also another consideration to be made here; the environment in which he would work. Given the Kelly's would not entertain a trade to Freo under any circumstances, there must be a genuine reason as to why this is so - he would've gotten home for certain last year, yet he chose to play out his contract. It wasn't a case of picking the best option, as you might think; Fremantle had something that wouldn't allow the Kelly's to step foot there. We can never actually know, but, given the circumstances, I think it's fair to say it was genuine.
As such, to say his reasoning becomes void because he wouldn't entertain Freo isn't fair. He desperately needed to come home, but he would not (under any circumstances) go to Freo, so surely there must be an actual reason behind that. It wasn't simply a case of choosing who he wanted.
Anyway, the situation was extraordinary in the context of others seen in the AFL. It isn't comparable to others because of the circumstances. Thus, that is what makes your club's actions so grave.
Seeing all of these things, Geelong decided to take a route that was, contrary to what you believe, remarkably selfish. The diagnosis after he was drafted changed everything, yet your club chose to not empathise with him; when he asked to come home, your club questioned his motivations as if he were in the wrong; when he wouldn't go to Fremantle for (most likely) genuine reasons, your club chose to take that as confirmation of his malicious intent. They didn't act in his best interest, but your best interest.
You lost far more by letting him go; a star player on rookie wages is a dream come true for any list manager. It wasn't simply a case of "seeing out his contract" or something reasonable like that - he needed the support only family could provide. Nominating a club didn't automatically make his situation void, as your club seemed to think. It wasn't the same as Nathan Buckley breaking his contract, precisely due to the fact Kelly had children that had been diagnosed with autism. This is the thing you seem to be overlooking.
It's a testament to the character of Kelly with how he approached 2019, but things were made even harder for him on the home front (his wife, I mean) by being away every second week. Kelly did fall in love with your club, as I'm sure every AFL player has when they get drafted - that doesn't mean your club's actions were any less severe.
Your club acting selfishly, and I'm not sure how it can be looked at in any other way. It looked for reasons to discount Tim's ability get home; rather than coming to understand him, you took a cynical view and kept him anyway. Geelong's actions would be morally reprehensible in normal society, so I'm not sure why it should be any different here. Clubs shouldn't be allowed to do these sort of things with it just being brushed off - that's why I feel so strongly about it. This thing shouldn't be acceptable within the industry of the AFL.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope you can understand why I think Geelong, in 2018, acted in bad faith.
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Forward Press
Hall of Famer
Don't think you understood the post, it's a free 5 pick upgrade for us because Geelong and Essendon were happy to shift their picks in the trade. I think we were never holding onto 33.
It’s because wells suffers from PE
I got some of these for tonight
So I hope our recruiter learn from this. Great we can finally call Tim an Eagle but there were calls from our WAFL watchers in 206 to rookie him and Liam.
Who did we go instead around those years?
2016 Gorter
2017 Burrows
Now before the calls for hindsight trading get called out, I was strongly opposed on the selection of Tom as were a couple of others (ROYAL EAGLE and Monocle from memory)
Most clubs draft for talent and trade for needs. I guess we buck the trend and draft for positional talent and trade for mids.
Who did we go instead around those years?
2016 Gorter
2017 Burrows
Now before the calls for hindsight trading get called out, I was strongly opposed on the selection of Tom as were a couple of others (ROYAL EAGLE and Monocle from memory)
Most clubs draft for talent and trade for needs. I guess we buck the trend and draft for positional talent and trade for mids.
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- May 8, 2012
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Just remember: Everyone is a genius in hindsight and no-one can predict the future.
Agree the hawks outfit were all class. I am hoping Richmond start to tail away towards the end of 2020 due to the intensity required to hold up their game plan. If they're given a tougher premiership fixture it could wear them down a bit. Kudos to them for riding the injuries out and getting some good form at the end of the year.
Looking forward to a cracking season ahead
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It could be strongly argued another key takeaway is to not ignore the more mature talent around just because they've been overlooked before.
Most in here thought 26 was too high for Kelly and raged when we took Ryan with it.
Most in here thought 26 was too high for Kelly and raged when we took Ryan with it.
Has he done an interview in WC colours yet?
If yes does anyone have a link?
If yes does anyone have a link?
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