Autopsy Round 5, 2020: Hawthorn falls in a heap against the Giants

[Brant]

Sicily had about 15 marks on him last time we played. But I reckon McEvoy could get 20.

Wow!

Are you suggesting the opposition would suddenly give Cox an extra 5+ I50m target opportunities & BigBoy would mark each of them, or that Sis marked 15 & dropped 5, that BigBoy would've marked?

Has he ever taken a team-high Intercept Marks? Was it more than 6ish? Really interested to hear the logic behind BigBoy taking an AFL Record intercept marks next week.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Do you think we need more inside midfielders and more small forwards? Those are the two biggest deficiencies on the list right now.

Key position forward also.

 

[Spursfan]

I’m still trying to get my head around how easily GWS scored, was it a record of something?

I reckon they had a similar ratio of goals to points against the cats in rd 1

 

[Mercy Seat]

Clarko will continue to paper over the cracks. Effort was more than acceptable. Competence was not.

We are a poor List.

Yes it is a difficult year and yes we just flew in today to play a side in its relative normal routine and living at home. I won’t even bother commenting on the disgusting umpiring. Talk about the Umpiring Dept having its own comment. But we must be used to this.

The reality is we coach to diminish the opposition. We are never coached against to diminish our capability. Never. Not for at least three years.

This List is deficient. It is seriously deficient. We are short Impey. We need at least another four Impey’s. We need at least four List upgrades. When you rely on a fwd 38 year old, a rapidly diminishing poppy and Henderson you cannot hope to win enough games to play finals let alone being a genuine, aggressive top four candidate, let alone flag contender. This is not an HFC standard List.

AC will get some response, but the bottom line is we are miles off being able to stand with the hope of our next premiership. We are teetering on falling down the other side of the cliff. Those who have been saying so for two years, we are only putting off the inevitable dramatic List rebuild. Tonight it is hard to argue against such logic.

Trouble is, either way we are at least five years off at the moment.

Our plan for the list always relied on picking up 2-3 quality free agents over the past few years to complement the trades we were making along the way. Having basically all our targets fall through in FA has essentially put us in nowhere’s land.

 

[tige19]

Clarko will continue to paper over the cracks. Effort was more than acceptable. Competence was not.

We are a poor List.

Yes it is a difficult year and yes we just flew in today to play a side in its relative normal routine and living at home. I won’t even bother commenting on the disgusting umpiring. Talk about the Umpiring Dept having its own comment. But we must be used to this.

The reality is we coach to diminish the opposition. We are never coached against to diminish our capability. Never. Not for at least three years.

This List is deficient. It is seriously deficient. We are short Impey. We need at least another four Impey’s. We need at least four List upgrades. When you rely on a fwd 38 year old, a rapidly diminishing poppy and Henderson you cannot hope to win enough games to play finals let alone being a genuine, aggressive top four candidate, let alone flag contender. This is not an HFC standard List.

AC will get some response, but the bottom line is we are miles off being able to stand with the hope of our next premiership. We are teetering on falling down the other side of the cliff. Those who have been saying so for two years, we are only putting off the inevitable dramatic List rebuild. Tonight it is hard to argue against such logic.

Trouble is, either way we are at least five years off at the moment.

... Been calling for a culling of many older players for a long time, the bandaid fixes are not going to win us games of footy.

We are simply blessed that Clarko for the overwhelming majority of time sets us up as a team that’s very hard to beat, but the flipside is we are team that struggles to win with any scerick Of continuity or fluidity.

We lack in a number of areas, we lack depth through the middle of the ground, we lack creativity out of defence, we lack a damaging wingman, we lack a genuine target deep forward and really need a high quality small forward.

I do hope we throw the kitchen sink at Daniel Rioli

 

[halfback dasher]

Tim O'brien did not compete tonight - very disappointing.

Give it a moment ....those with stats will come fwd to howl you down......wait .......just wait .....waiting .....hallo ??

 

[Mercy Seat]

So I suppose we're waiting on the TOB breakout season to happen in 2021, he's 27 next year right ?

Just needs to bulk up a bit and get some confidence. I’m tipping 1-2 years away...

 

[tige19]

Give it a moment ....those with stats will come fwd to howl you down......wait .......just wait .....waiting .....hallo ??

He has a nice running style

 

[westhawk]

Let me tell you this, if you think Cegs frustrates you then you’re going to need ER on call with Reeves mate. Reeves is 3-5 years away.

Finn you would think gets a chance, we desperately need midfield depth, we are dead and buried in the 4th quarter.

Even play Brooksby, at least he has a massive crack. Cegs is like a witches hat with arms

 

[tige19]

Even play Brooksby, at least he has a massive crack. Cegs is like a witches hat with arms

Yeah not sure, he never impressed me either tbh... BB needs to play ruck, I’d consider Cegs as a key forward but we really need Patton to make that his own.

If there was mid season trading (which there should be) then we’d be looking to shift him.

 

[hk89]

Time to go hendo unless as a fwd pocket.

Too early for that call for mine. Was in career best role as an outside mid , largely running off half back/wing last year. Suspect the short quarters are doing both him and Scully no favours, as the guys who hurt you in the last 5 minutes of each quarter because they are still full of run are not reaching that point where their opponents can't chase them anymore in the short form of the game. He just seems a little of out of sorts in general though, but deserves to be given some time to find form.

I actually thought Sicily was better when Mcevoy was in the ruck, He needs to fire up a bit he looks dis interested at the best of times he use to sprint fwd and play on the edge.

McEvoy was probably more competitive in the ruck. Sicily is always better when intercepting wayward forward 50 entries, and if McEvoy can help reduce the amount of silver platter service the GWS mids were giving their forwards, then I can imagine that would have suited Sicily. In general this season though, I think Sicily has been best when able to play a more free wheeling role.

Bring hately in the side which will keep Sicily free, his a very good mark and kick to.

Yes, that's an option that might be worth seeing. I'd forgotten about Hartely to be honest. How has he gone in the scratch matches?

 

[Spursfan]

... Been calling for a culling of many older players for a long time, the bandaid fixes are not going to win us games of footy.

We are simply blessed that Clarko for the overwhelming majority of time sets us up as a team that’s very hard to beat, but the flipside is we are team that struggles to win with any scerick Of continuity or fluidity.

We lack in a number of areas, we lack depth through the middle of the ground, we lack creativity out of defence, we lack a damaging wingman, we lack a genuine target deep forward and really need a high quality small forward.

I do hope we throw the kitchen sink at Daniel Rioli

He's a role player on a very good side, nothing more

 

[Lickmesocks]

I’m still trying to get my head around how easily GWS scored, was it a record of something?

In round 1 the Giants did the same thing to the Cats.

 

[HAWKSBESTEVA]

Smith out?

Brilliant!

Out of interest, have you given any though as to how do you plan to move the ball?

All smith does is get it and Bomb it long which results in turnovers. Not like he finds targets mate

 

[hk89]

Tim O'brien did not compete tonight - very disappointing.

Yup, his worst game this year you'd have to say. Hasn't been clunking marks, but if he'd brought some of the high balls to ground and stopped GWS moving it out so easily, we might have been much more competitive in tonight's game. Just completely non-competitive tonight.

 

[Tuck In]

Too slow across the ground, too flat footed in defence, too static in the middle. We play a game that is built on precision and we are the least precise team.

Be a good season to tank. Leave the older players at home from the hub, take the kids.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Scully is trash also, I know he has his defenders on this forum, but other than endurance he offers * all.

 

[Maybloomer]

Think I’m done.

It’s following a repetitive pattern, early on in the season I watch a few games in full, gradually reducing to a few quarters (muted of course) and eventually only Hawks games and some Finals. The poor quality of football and umpiring is not worth my time any more. I no longer watch any footy related shows bar Front Bar (because it reflects footy as it used to be).

I felt bad switching off with 6 mins to go tonight, I’ve never done that before. I could accept the Hawks performance, they will be accountable for that - in the media, on the training track and probably in their career aspirations. I just couldn’t put up with the inequity shown by the incompetent unaccountable puppets dancing on the strings held by the AFL. We were being played for fools and that didnt sit well with me. Don’t be fooled by COVID, this game is a mess without it.

 

[hk89]

No. BigBoy is a garbage match-up for Cox.

The perfect match-up for Cox isn't someone that has similar size or attributes, it's someone that exploit his weaknesses - of which he has plenty. Almost every KPD can defeat Cox because he's simply not good. Naming someone the same size on the basis they can spoil him isn't clever - it's wasting an opportunity to exploit his many glaring weaknesses.

The perfect match-up is someone that restricts his output but smashes him the other way. We have about 6 guys more equipped to do this than BigBoy.

I see what you're saying, but I reckon BB can exploit him fine. BB is great at reading the ball in flight, taking good position, and using his size to keep it. Sure BB isn't going to exploit Cox when the ball hits the ground, but we have a bunch of other players that can do that for us without them having to be his direct matchup. BB does have the capabilities of exploiting some of Cox's weaknesses and I don't think it is necessarily a bad matchup for us. My bigger concern is that after our forward line performance without BB in it, I'm no longer convinced we are best served with BB back. If Lewis/TOB/Patton are all out of form or injured, we don't have a KPF (and it is unreasonable to expect Gunston to play that role).

 

[Brant]

All smith does is get it and Bomb it long which results in turnovers. Not like he finds targets mate

HENDERSON - 15 disposals, 3 kicks, 12 handballs for 43 metres gained (I'll save you the research - AFL website has Smitty at 470m gained).

If you're dropping Smitty, what are your plans for Hendo????

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Clarko will continue to paper over the cracks. Effort was more than acceptable. Competence was not.

We are a poor List.

Yes it is a difficult year and yes we just flew in today to play a side in its relative normal routine and living at home. I won’t even bother commenting on the disgusting umpiring. Talk about the Umpiring Dept having its own comment. But we must be used to this.

The reality is we coach to diminish the opposition. We are never coached against to diminish our capability. Never. Not for at least three years.

This List is deficient. It is seriously deficient. We are short Impey. We need at least another four Impey’s. We need at least four List upgrades. When you rely on a fwd 38 year old, a rapidly diminishing poppy and Henderson you cannot hope to win enough games to play finals let alone being a genuine, aggressive top four candidate, let alone flag contender. This is not an HFC standard List.

AC will get some response, but the bottom line is we are miles off being able to stand with the hope of our next premiership. We are teetering on falling down the other side of the cliff. Those who have been saying so for two years, we are only putting off the inevitable dramatic List rebuild. Tonight it is hard to argue against such logic.

Trouble is, either way we are at least five years off at the moment.

Agree 100% No further comment required..

 

[NICE1]

Clarko will continue to paper over the cracks. Effort was more than acceptable. Competence was not.

We are a poor List.

Yes it is a difficult year and yes we just flew in today to play a side in its relative normal routine and living at home. I won’t even bother commenting on the disgusting umpiring. Talk about the Umpiring Dept having its own comment. But we must be used to this.

The reality is we coach to diminish the opposition. We are never coached against to diminish our capability. Never. Not for at least three years.

This List is deficient. It is seriously deficient. We are short Impey. We need at least another four Impey’s. We need at least four List upgrades. When you rely on a fwd 38 year old, a rapidly diminishing poppy and Henderson you cannot hope to win enough games to play finals let alone being a genuine, aggressive top four candidate, let alone flag contender. This is not an HFC standard List.

AC will get some response, but the bottom line is we are miles off being able to stand with the hope of our next premiership. We are teetering on falling down the other side of the cliff. Those who have been saying so for two years, we are only putting off the inevitable dramatic List rebuild. Tonight it is hard to argue against such logic.

Trouble is, either way we are at least five years off at the moment.

Clarko will continue to paper over the cracks. Effort was more than acceptable. Competence was not.

We are a poor List.

Yes it is a difficult year and yes we just flew in today to play a side in its relative normal routine and living at home. I won’t even bother commenting on the disgusting umpiring. Talk about the Umpiring Dept having its own comment. But we must be used to this.

The reality is we coach to diminish the opposition. We are never coached against to diminish our capability. Never. Not for at least three years.

This List is deficient. It is seriously deficient. We are short Impey. We need at least another four Impey’s. We need at least four List upgrades. When you rely on a fwd 38 year old, a rapidly diminishing poppy and Henderson you cannot hope to win enough games to play finals let alone being a genuine, aggressive top four candidate, let alone flag contender. This is not an HFC standard List.

AC will get some response, but the bottom line is we are miles off being able to stand with the hope of our next premiership. We are teetering on falling down the other side of the cliff. Those who have been saying so for two years, we are only putting off the inevitable dramatic List rebuild. Tonight it is hard to argue against such logic.

Trouble is, either way we are at least five years off at the moment.

This is the most frustrating part for me - our refusal to go through a full scale rebuild since our 3-peat and our strategy to piss away draft picks every year in exchange for ready made players. Now we find ourselves in no mans land with one of the oldest lists (still) and a severe lack of top end youth coming through.
Who's responsible for this?

 

[Hawk_francais]

Wow!

Are you suggesting the opposition would suddenly give Cox an extra 5+ I50m target opportunities & BigBoy would mark each of them, or that Sis marked 15 & dropped 5, that BigBoy would've marked?

Has he ever taken a team-high Intercept Marks? Was it more than 6ish? Really interested to hear the logic behind BigBoy taking an AFL Record intercept marks next week.

I know it sucks when our team loses, but it's not an excuse to start getting huffy with your fellow supporters. Any of McEvoy, Sicily, Frawley or Frost could mark Cox when he's in such terrible form. We have far worse to fear from the Pies forward line.

 

[HAWKSBESTEVA]

HENDERSON - 15 disposals, 3 kicks, 12 handballs for 43 metres gained (I'll save you the research - AFL website has Smitty at 470m gained).

If you're dropping Smitty, what are you're plans for Hendo????

I’ve said hendo needs to be dropped too, 470m Gained by bombing it long to nowhere mate, metres gained means s**t you can just keep hacking it to to opposition and it counts as metres gained.

 

[Roddy]

Our free kick count for the last 2 weeks: 47-24. The umps and the AFL HATE us. They can't have us getting up and winning yet more flags, it's an embarrassment to the equalisation measures. They can't bring in any more measures of that nature, so this is one of the few ways they can control us these days. Disgusting.