List Mgmt. 2020 Draft Thread

[Harry O]

Brett Chalmers must wish his draft tampering case was held under the current administration

 

[Matt_352]

If it works for us then great.

 

[TradeDraft]

Could this day get any slower? lol

I had no care’s today made slow for me too

 

[partypie]

Yeah it’s absolutely possible they do. In fact if the cards fall the way that Pies 4 ever hinted at in their post then GWS are the only club likely to place a bid before 14 & 16 based on all the information readily available... I certainly don’t think it’s logical that it only happens if we ask them too.

Getting back to the point which you ever so eloquently changed can you clarify where in that post it said we asked them to place a bid? Which you said we did right here because it’s the crux of Pies 4 ever’s draft tampering question.

I think that is all guff and there is no way that GWS having a swing at Reef given who else would be there, followed shortly thereafter by them entering into a *very* beneficial trade for us would pass the sniff test. If it were any other club we'd be burning down the rafters and I think the bringing up of whether it would be tampering points to pies 4 ever was probably feeling the same thing on some level.

The key point here though is that the discussion is moot, as any such move would leave us unable to match a bid on Reef initially due to having insufficient points to match. We'd also not be able to trade our 2021 1st round pick + other 2021 picks for picks 13 and 15 (or 20), so the whole scenario falls down there again.

If you want to keep trying to score some sort of point for whatever reason then feel free, but know that it is a waste of time because the proposed scenario cannot eventuate for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[TradeDraft]

Outside of Reef I don’t really have any Favourite who I want us to pick

 

[Linda Lovelace]

Because he's not colluding with a single club and he also knows that an interstate club can still call his bluff and draft him if they are willing to back themselves in with regards to winning him over.

Draft tampering has to involve collusion between two or more parties to achieve a specific (beneficial) outcome for all parties involved and this situation with Perkins doesn't fit that brief.

It's more about the broader concerns. With the points system, it creates an even greater incentive for clubs to get draftees to ward off potential early bids so that the draft can be compromised beyond just that player transaction.

And even without any behind the scenes machinations, it's still a problem. Take a hypothetical year where there's a consensus pick 1, all the interstate clubs make up the bottom 8 spots, and Collingwood or Richmond is in the 5th year of a rebuild moving up from 18th to 9th. The kid wouldn't just be saying 'I want to stay home', he would be saying 'I want to play for the biggest club in Victoria which is moving into potential top 4 contention next year'. That's fundamentally not how the national draft is supposed to work.

That's not to be naive - prospects already have ways of scaring clubs off. There's really no way to 'fix' the issue. But I actually think we are better off with low-key hints than letting draftees outright be 'honest' to everyone. Because I think you will find sometimes that 'honesty' is a little less than honest.

 

[Pistol Night]

Outside of Reef I don’t really have any Favourite who I want us to pick

Cox at 14.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

How is missing out on Reef because someone bids early a "win" exactly?

It just is.

 

[Kappa]

It just is.

Oh

 

[partypie]

It's more about the broader concerns. With the points system, it creates an even greater incentive for clubs to get draftees to ward off potential early bids so that the draft can be compromised beyond just that player transaction.

And even without any behind the scenes machinations, it's still a problem. Take a hypothetical year where there's a consensus pick 1, all the interstate clubs make up the bottom 8 spots, and Collingwood or Richmond is in the 5th year of a rebuild moving up from 18th to 9th. The kid wouldn't just be saying 'I want to stay home', he would be saying 'I want to play for the biggest club in Victoria which is moving into potential top 4 contention next year'. That's fundamentally not how the national draft is supposed to work.

That's not to be naive - prospects already have ways of scaring clubs off. There's really no way to 'fix' the issue. But I actually think we are better off with low-key hints than letting draftees outright be 'honest' to everyone. Because I think you will find sometimes that 'honesty' is a little less than honest.

Gold Coast found a way to do it which appears to be working (for now) - draft kids who know each other so that they don't just feel like they're up there on their own. A highly situational approach to be sure, but they appear to be hanging onto Lukosious, Rankine, Rowell and Anderson for the time being (and King re-signing is also a big boost).

Once a club manages to build a core of younger players and has some success then it becomes a progressively more attractive option for other potential draftees who might have some reservations about moving interstate.

The counterpoint to this issue of players saying they would rather stay in their home state is that an interstate club can always call a draftee's bluff and pick them anyway, if they are confident in backing themselves in to win that draftee over.

 

[Jen2310]

 

[Jen2310]

This is what Hine said about Reef

"
Hine was non-committal about whether the club would snap up NGA product Reef McInnes, who has been touted as a potential top-10 bolter who could attract a bid from Adelaide at pick nine.
"We rate Reef like a lot of clubs do," he said.
"Where the bid comes, from our perspective we've got to see where Reef sits on our draft board.
"If there's a great discretion there, it's potentially a discussion we need to have. If it's in and around now then we'll make a decision on the spot, we'll go for it."

""

 

[Scodog10]

I think that is all guff and there is no way that GWS having a swing at Reef given who else would be there, followed shortly thereafter by them entering into a *very* beneficial trade for us would pass the sniff test. If it were any other club we'd be burning down the rafters and I think the bringing up of whether it would be tampering points to pies 4 ever was probably feeling the same thing on some level.

The key point here though is that the discussion is moot, as any such move would leave us unable to match a bid on Reef initially due to having insufficient points to match. We'd also not be able to trade our 2021 1st round pick + other 2021 picks for picks 13 and 15 (or 20), so the whole scenario falls down there again.

If you want to keep trying to score some sort of point for whatever reason then feel free, but know that it is a waste of time because the proposed scenario cannot eventuate for the reasons mentioned above.

I’m happy to add this to my tally of points and wanted to sign off by letting you know the knots you’ve twisted yourself into over it has been amusing.

 

[JOELY]

damn, i was hoping for a slide. such a natural looking footballer.

 

[Dynamics]

Cox at 14.

199cm. Fourth in the 2km. Ran a 2.95 sprint. Good overhead, can kick a goal, can play on a wing and is a lovely kick with both feet.

EXACTLY what we need.

 

[partypie]

Outside of Reef I don’t really have any Favourite who I want us to pick

I would be over the moon if the early (top 6-8) draft picks and a draft night trade or two resulted in us being able to get Reid and two other first rounders before matching a later bid on Reef. If it worked out that we could still get Reid or Cox and another first round draft pick, as well as matching a bid on Reef and maybe someone who fills a list need in the late 20's or early 30's then that would also be ok, but not amazing.

I'm hoping we snag another KPP prospect later in the draft, maybe Kolar or Lord, or even Callow if he falls that far? The fox sports mock draft has us taking Eddie Ford at pick 55 which I'd be very happy with as well.

A small pressure forward taken late is also something I'd be keen on (more than trying to take one in the first round or thereabouts), maybe someone like Brand, Brockman, Durdin, Winder, or even Newchurch if we could steal him from Adelaide's grasp (unlikely that they wouldn't match a late bid on him though).

 

[TradeDraft]

Cox at 14.

we don’t have Pick 14

 

[partypie]

I’m happy to add this to my tally of points and wanted to sign off by letting you know the knots you’ve twisted yourself into over it has been amusing.

I'm not twisted in knots over this at all and you haven't scored any point here, but what you have managed to do is demonstrate some capacity to be somewhat of a dickhead trying to argue something which, once again, is essentially moot.

If you're still confused then read the bolded bit in my previous reply, but after that it's time to move on from this (moot) discussion.

Edit: Just for clarity the only thing I'm getting a little tense over at this point in time is the upcoming draft, with some concern that we'll find a way to really screw a post-season activity (again), but I'd imagine that I am not alone in this a couple of hours out from the draft.

 

[pies 4 ever]

I think that is all guff and there is no way that GWS having a swing at Reef given who else would be there, followed shortly thereafter by them entering into a *very* beneficial trade for us would pass the sniff test. If it were any other club we'd be burning down the rafters and I think the bringing up of whether it would be tampering points to pies 4 ever was probably feeling the same thing on some level.

The key point here though is that the discussion is moot, as any such move would leave us unable to match a bid on Reef initially due to having insufficient points to match. We'd also not be able to trade our 2021 1st round pick + other 2021 picks for picks 13 and 15 (or 20), so the whole scenario falls down there again.

If you want to keep trying to score some sort of point for whatever reason then feel free, but know that it is a waste of time because the proposed scenario cannot eventuate for the reasons mentioned above.

My bad, I posted my reply to Scodog by mistake.
I agree with Party Pie that we would not have enough points to match a reef bid at 10 with only our 65 plus points but if the deal with the Roos was done with 9 & 40, then it would be enough.
The GWS deal would only be draft tampering if we entered into a deal colluding with them to pick Reef. If we approached GWS indicating we would like to deal with them, GWS is under no obligation to tell us their plans or even if they told us they were planning on bidding for Reef at 10, surely we could call their bluff, match the bid and then re-enter negotiations after the event. If we advised the AFL this as it happened then what could the AFL say/do??

 

[Jen2310]

we don’t have Pick 14

We do. Part of the Treloar trade. We have 14 and 16. Those will be pushed out with bids.

 

[unplugged]

Chapman, Cox and Reef. Pls

 

[Apex36]

we don’t have Pick 14

Yes we do. Where it ends up is another discussion, but as it stands we have pick 14.

 

[Get Gaffed]

I really hope we pick this bloke up late in the draft.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm not sure alerting interstate clubs he's an enormous flight risk is in any way tampering with the draft. They can still choose to take him.

It’s exactly what Bucks said when the bears drafted him. “I’ll give you everything I’ve got but at the end of the first year, expect me to ask for a trade”.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He's eliminating himself from being picked by all interstate clubs. How is it not?

Next year we will have Victorian kids only wanting to play in Vic, SA in SA, WA in WA etc.

Only the top 20 have the power to try this one on. It’s an honest approach.... I’d appreciate the honesty if I was thinking of drafting him.

Everybody past 20 or so that would be running the risk of being completely passed over. So they would be open to all clubs.