Covid-19 Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 4 - Ivermectin doesn't work either.

[Chief]

Continued in Part 5:

Covid-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 5 - Get vaccinated.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/in-focus/covid-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Deliverance]

Good news to wake up to

New variant ‘worse than Delta’

A “doomsday” Covid variant has been detected in South Africa – and there are warnings it is worse than the Delta variant.

www.news.com.au

Just get vaxxed to the max and move on. Forget that negative s**t.

 

[Deaneus!]

Deliverance

 

[Deliverance]

Deliverance

View attachment 1222236

Another 1.3 million deaths and they will have equalled The Spanish flu.
They may get there yet.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Just get vaxxed to the max and move on. Forget that negative sh*t.

View attachment 1222227

Unfortunately I think Covid is doing a better job of death ie stopping life than fear

 

[Deliverance]

Unfortunately I think Covid is doing a better job of death ie stopping life than fear

There's a philosophical difference between living and being alive.

 

[owen87]

There's a philosophical difference between living and being alive.

The former is a pre-requisite for the latter.

 

[Deliverance]

The former is a pre-requisite for the latter.

Dying is a risk we take by living. Those who don't want to live can lock themselves away and stay alive. The rest of us can live.

 

[owen87]

Dying is a risk we take by living. Those who don't want to live can lock themselves away and stay alive. The rest of us can live.

What happens when your choice to live impacts upon someone else's choice to live?

Freedoms work both ways.

 

[BEaston]

Moving on...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf

Unvaccinated represent 12.8% of the UK population aged 16 and over. 34.1% of the deaths are unvaccinated.
10% of the population have had one dose only. 10.7% of the deaths have had one dose.
78.2% of the population have had two doses. 54.2% of the deaths have had two doses.

Conclusions -

One dose doesn't seem to give any protection from death. Any many people have opted not to get a 2nd jab. Because of adverse affects, or were they all washing their hair?

Some 1.4 million people who were due to have their second Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in the UK up to August 18 did not come forward, along with between 400,000 and 600,000 people missing AstraZeneca second doses, official figures suggested .

Two doses gives some protection but nothing like the claimed 95% efficacy claimed.

The report does not state how many of the vaccinated have been previously infected and recovered. So some of the two dose efficacy could be due to natural immunity. There are over 5 million such people in the UK.

There is little risk of death for under 50 year olds and the vaccine does not make much difference. Case fatality rate for unvaxed under 50 = 0.03%, CFR for 2 doses under 50 = 0.05%. Again this could be due to be due to natural immunity of those previously infected and recovered.

The stats you put forward indicate that deaths are over-represented in the unvaccinated group and under-represented in the vaccinated group.
I don't think you are reading them correctly because they don't really support the argument you are pushing.

Also I can't find them in the link you provided, so I'm even unsure of their validity to begin with.

 

[Frank Bunn]

No that's not what those stats mean

12.8% of the population unvaccinated are 34% of the deaths. So unvaccinated you're around 3 times more likely than 'average' to die.
10% of the population have one jab and this group account for 10% of the deaths. So they're around 'average' on death rate, 3 times less than the unvaccinated group, but at the 'average' death rate of the overall population, due to the reduced mortality from the proportion of the population who are double vaxed.

You need to go into the detail. The main risk factor is not whether you have been vaccinated but age.

For unvaccinated under 50s there were 147,612 cases and 48 deaths associated with Delta. CFR = 0.03%. For double vaccinated over 50s there were 21,472 cases and 389 deaths. CFR = 1.81%. So an unvaccinated under 50 yo is 60 times less likely to die from Delta than a vaccinated over 50 yo.

The CFR for unvaccinated over 50s blows out to 5.96%, which is significant. But it's possible that this figure is inflated because it includes those who were not vaccinated because they have a serious health condition. At one point Norway stopped vaccinating sick patients who were over 80.

The UK population aged over 16 is about 56 million. So there are about 7 million unvaccinated adults. For this group there were 253 deaths associated with Covid in the period 1 February 2021 to 2 August 2021. That cohort might expect to have around 60,000 deaths from all causes in the same period.

The UK data is instructive on how Australian policy should proceed.

Delta is not as virulent as earlier strains, even in the unvaccinated it accounts for a small % of deaths. A double dose of vaccine provides some protection, mainly to over 70s. So it makes sense to strongly encourage that group to get vaccinated - then make it available to anyone else who wants it. Then open up.

Australia's targets of 70% and 80% vaccination before opening up are not backed by the science. Lockdowns are not backed by the science around the virus, and need to be balanced against all the negative effects such as mental health, education, jobs. Loss of rights for unvaccinated are not backed by the science.

 

[Mateyman]

You need to go into the detail. The main risk factor is not whether you have been vaccinated but age.

For unvaccinated under 50s there were 147,612 cases and 48 deaths associated with Delta. CFR = 0.03%. For double vaccinated over 50s there were 21,472 cases and 389 deaths. CFR = 1.81%. So an unvaccinated under 50 yo is 60 times less likely to die from Delta than a vaccinated over 50 yo.

The CFR for unvaccinated over 50s blows out to 5.96%, which is significant. But it's possible that this figure is inflated because it includes those who were not vaccinated because they have a serious health condition. At one point Norway stopped vaccinating sick patients who were over 80.

The UK population aged over 16 is about 56 million. So there are about 7 million unvaccinated adults. For this group there were 253 deaths associated with Covid in the period 1 February 2021 to 2 August 2021. That cohort might expect to have around 60,000 deaths from all causes in the same period.

The UK data is instructive on how Australian policy should proceed.

Delta is not as virulent as earlier strains, even in the unvaccinated it accounts for a small % of deaths. A double dose of vaccine provides some protection, mainly to over 70s. So it makes sense to strongly encourage that group to get vaccinated - then make it available to anyone else who wants it. Then open up.

Australia's targets of 70% and 80% vaccination before opening up are not backed by the science. Lockdowns are not backed by the science around the virus, and need to be balanced against all the negative effects such as mental health, education, jobs. Loss of rights for unvaccinated are not backed by the science.

Ok so first you claim that 1 vaccine doesn't make a difference, now you move the goalposts rather than just admit you made an error. If anything vaccination rates are higher in older people so the comparison once adjusted for that is even more flattering for vaccines.

Delta is not as virulent as earlier strains, even in the unvaccinated it accounts for a small % of deaths. A double dose of vaccine provides some protection, mainly to over 70s. So it makes sense to strongly encourage that group to get vaccinated - then make it available to anyone else who wants it. Then open up.

Stop spouting crap with no evidence
Covid: Delta variant patients twice as likely to need hospital carehttps://www.bbc.co.uk › news › health-58354342

 

[BEaston]

You need to go into the detail. The main risk factor is not whether you have been vaccinated but age.

For unvaccinated under 50s there were 147,612 cases and 48 deaths associated with Delta. CFR = 0.03%. For double vaccinated over 50s there were 21,472 cases and 389 deaths. CFR = 1.81%. So an unvaccinated under 50 yo is 60 times less likely to die from Delta than a vaccinated over 50 yo.

The CFR for unvaccinated over 50s blows out to 5.96%, which is significant. But it's possible that this figure is inflated because it includes those who were not vaccinated because they have a serious health condition. At one point Norway stopped vaccinating sick patients who were over 80.

The UK population aged over 16 is about 56 million. So there are about 7 million unvaccinated adults. For this group there were 253 deaths associated with Covid in the period 1 February 2021 to 2 August 2021. That cohort might expect to have around 60,000 deaths from all causes in the same period.

The UK data is instructive on how Australian policy should proceed.

Delta is not as virulent as earlier strains, even in the unvaccinated it accounts for a small % of deaths. A double dose of vaccine provides some protection, mainly to over 70s. So it makes sense to strongly encourage that group to get vaccinated - then make it available to anyone else who wants it. Then open up.

Australia's targets of 70% and 80% vaccination before opening up are not backed by the science. Lockdowns are not backed by the science around the virus, and need to be balanced against all the negative effects such as mental health, education, jobs. Loss of rights for unvaccinated are not backed by the science.

This post is like a plate of mashed vegies.

 

[Present Not Past]

Yep, it's no worse than the flu and you don't need a vaccine against it. PMSL.

Alarm grips US as oxygen supplies run out

The US Covid crisis is deepening with oxygen running out in the southern states and “talking dead” patients with lungs ravaged by the virus unable to continue without ventilators.

www.news.com.au

 

[Deliverance]

What happens when your choice to live impacts upon someone else's choice to live?

Freedoms work both ways.

It won't be my choice. It will be the 20 million who've been vaccinated.

 

[owen87]

It won't be my choice. It will be the 20 million who've been vaccinated.

You're a very long way from the original comment you made at this point.

 

[Deliverance]

You're a very long way from the original comment you made at this point.

Nope
Original comment

"Just get vaxxed to the max and move on. Forget that negative sh*t."

Is pretty darn similar to

It won't be my choice. It will be the 20 million who've been vaccinated.

 

[owen87]

Nope
Original comment

"Just get vaxxed to the max and move on. Forget that negative sh*t."

Is pretty darn similar to

This bit was where I came in;

There's a philosophical difference between living and being alive.

Dying is a risk we take by living. Those who don't want to live can lock themselves away and stay alive. The rest of us can live.

Wanting to 'live' is fine, but let's not pretend all the anti-vaxx / anti-pandemic / let it rip / just a flu / muh freedums types give a toss about anyone else's ability or right to live.

 

[Present Not Past]

This bit was where I came in;




Wanting to 'live' is fine, but let's not pretend all the anti-vaxx / anti-pandemic / let it rip / just a flu / muh freedums types give a toss about anyone else's ability or right to live.

They are selfish people who just want to live off the toils of other people. Unfortunately the welfare state in Australia encourages these types of people.

 

[Deliverance]

This bit was where I came in;




Wanting to 'live' is fine, but let's not pretend all the anti-vaxx / anti-pandemic / let it rip / just a flu / muh freedums types give a toss about anyone else's ability or right to live.

Fair enough, context is key.

 

[Present Not Past]

Deliverance

View attachment 1222236

50,000 deaths each year in the US from influenza. Yeah, what’s all the fuss about this Covid 19. It’s no worse than a dose of the flu.

 

[Total Power]

50,000 deaths each year in the US from influenza. Yeah, what’s all the fuss about this Covid 19. It’s no worse than a dose of the flu.

The flu argument is long gone, they have now moved to 'vaccines don't work' argument. The same mob.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

The flu argument is long gone, they have now moved to 'vaccines don't work' argument. The same mob.

If the vaccines worked properly, you wouldn't need 80% of the adult population to have it to get to a point where locking down may not be necessary, not because that would stop the virus transmitting, making people seriously sick or even killing people.

They do something for sure. Is that enough that it would allow us to return to some semblance of normality without overwhelming the health system and incurring a significant death toll? At some point in time a compromise needs to be made

 

[Crankyhawk]

The media loves to find these stories. Yet strangely there are no stories going viral about double vaccinated young people who die of Covid.

probably because it appears the double vaccinated took appropriate steps to reduce their risk. Can't get risk to zero, but its less.

While theres a degree of laugh at the anti vax loser karma in these stories.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Ok so first you claim that 1 vaccine doesn't make a difference, now you move the goalposts rather than just admit you made an error.

Your comment was supposition. The CFR for one dose (≥21 days) is identical to those Unvaccinated - both 0.14%.

Stop spouting crap with no evidence
Covid: Delta variant patients twice as likely to need hospital carehttps://www.bbc.co.uk › news › health-58354342

The report have been citing covers a much longer period - 1 February 2021 to 2 August 2021.

Hospitalisation cases with an overnight stay. Alpha 3%. Delta 1.7%.
Deaths. Alpha 1.1%. Delta 0.2%.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Ok so first you claim that 1 vaccine doesn't make a difference, now you move the goalposts rather than just admit you made an error. If anything vaccination rates are higher in older people so the comparison once adjusted for that is even more flattering for vaccines.

Stop spouting crap with no evidence
Covid: Delta variant patients twice as likely to need hospital carehttps://www.bbc.co.uk › news › health-58354342

Then you chose to ignore several other points I made. Such as

- 54.2% of the deaths have had two doses.
- Vaccinations are effective on the elderly but don't make much difference in under 50s.
- Natural immunity of the 5 million who have recovered from Covid is likely a factor in the vaccinated efficacy stats.
- Around 2 million people chose not to show up for their 2nd jab.