List Mgmt. 2021 NAB National AFL Draft

[Lore]

Scuse the intrusion folks. Thought you might like to have this resource in your thread

 

[Quicky]

Translator needed please.... - on the club's website one of the strengths of a draftee is listed as "production" - any ideas what this means?

View attachment 1288517

It means the player gets a lot of disposals. For e.g. Tyler Brown is low production, Tom Phillips is high production.

 

[jonbe54]

I’m going to steer clear of the “mediocre” aspect of this discussion because that went sideways real quick the other day and focus on feels toward the guys we drafted. Draper feels the most boom or bust out of the group and Murley the most exciting. As a reference point none of these kids is perfect from the top 5 alone JHF is inconsistent, Darcy had zero production, Daicos and Callaghan need to improve their contested game and Andrew is as raw as they come.

From there Draper’s improvement area is a big red flag in modern footy because of the need to run both ways in a grid defence. Put simply if he doesn’t improve his accountability he’ll be out of the system by the end of 2023. If he fixes it though he’s got the potential to be the second best value in the draft (no one is beating Daicos at 4). Murley to me screams modern footy with his blend of speed and skill the key will be getting through the next two years injury free before he’s got the circa 10kg of muscle he needs. If he can do that the ceiling’s the two Zac’s (Butters and Bailey) which is exactly what we need.

Agreed we recruited for needs and potentially covered speed and disposal well.

Now it's a matter for coaching and support personnel to roll up their sleeves and help these boys over the physically stressful initial couple of seasons.

That will actually tell us how our off field rebuild is shaping - we need a huge improvement in those two areas from the near farcical conditions that applied before the rebuild.

 

[NMBB]

It means the player gets a lot of disposals. For e.g. Tyler Brown is low production, Tom Phillips is high production.

Tks for producing this clarification.

 

[loki04]

Just needs a few more more "levers" to be pulled.

At least we won't be nutted at the contest.

 

[loki04]

One minor tweak there - at 193cm both Poulter and Reef would have to be considered to be tall midfielders.

Fin Mac is also listed at 187cm hardly a small midfielder, taller then Nick Daicos at 183cm.

Finlay Macrae | AFL

Follow Finlay Macrae's progress through AFL

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

We will actually have a decent sized midfield should they all come on as expected.

 

[Quicky]

Fin Mac is also listed at 187cm hardly a small midfielder, taller then Nick Daicos at 183cm.

Finlay Macrae | AFL

Follow Finlay Macrae's progress through AFL

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

We will actually have a decent sized midfield should they all come one as expected.

There's every chance our midfield includes Pendlebury, Crisp, De Goey all over 190cm. Lipinski is 187cm and Adams is solid.

Developing we have Reef and Poulter coming through over 190cm. Draper and Macrae at around the 187cm mark.

I don't think size in midfield is an issue at all.

It makes sense we targeted some quick, agile ground level types for some balance this draft.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Brilliant!

Dude you don't understand.

I've been reaching out to my cousins to tell them and even they're freaked out. Literally all 5 kids we picked up in the draft share a first name with someone in my family. It's freaky as f**k. Even the Collingwood twitter account agreed lol

 

[Carlthetruth]

I’m going to steer clear of the “mediocre” aspect of this discussion because that went sideways real quick the other day and focus on feels toward the guys we drafted. Draper feels the most boom or bust out of the group and Murley the most exciting. As a reference point none of these kids is perfect from the top 5 alone JHF is inconsistent, Darcy had zero production, Daicos and Callaghan need to improve their contested game and Andrew is as raw as they come.

From there Draper’s improvement area is a big red flag in modern footy because of the need to run both ways in a grid defence. Put simply if he doesn’t improve his accountability he’ll be out of the system by the end of 2023. If he fixes it though he’s got the potential to be the second best value in the draft (no one is beating Daicos at 4). Murley to me screams modern footy with his blend of speed and skill the key will be getting through the next two years injury free before he’s got the circa 10kg of muscle he needs. If he can do that the ceiling’s the two Zac’s (Butters and Bailey) which is exactly what we need.

Some real nonsense to unpack here, so junior footy has anti density rules so if you're asked to play as a forward I wouldn't be critisizing a players ability to two way run. As for applying this to Draper, spoken like someone who has never seen him play. Workrate and pressure isn't a problem.

 

[loki04]

There's every chance our midfield includes Pendlebury, Crisp, De Goey all over 190cm. Lipinski is 187cm and Adams is solid.

Developing we have Reef and Poulter coming through over 190cm. Draper and Macrae at around the 187cm mark.

I don't think size in midfield is an issue at all.

It makes sense we targeted some quick, agile ground level types for some balance this draft.

Yeah I dont think it is either moving forward, not sure if you are adding to what I wrote or? I was just addressing Finlay being seen as a "small mid".

I think prior years it has been vulnerable to bigger and physical midfields.

I was looking fwd more so then next year, but if looking at next 2-3 years;
Pendles is 34 so doubtfully he's still here in 3 years when these mids take over full time.
Also whilst he is a large mid he doesn't use his size physically outside of protecting his space (more blocking).

Crisp and Adams will be 31 and winding up Adams especially given the way he plays takes a toll on the body.
Also a bit meh on Crisp as a mid up and down like a yoyo. Imo he would make a great run with player 100% MM would of used him as such effectively.
Noise out of the club has Degoey future at pies uncertain, could very well see him gone next year as a FA. Sounds like Degoeys camp is also unhappy with the club...wait and see I guess.


But after that I think we are building a decent sized midfield and agree adding that pace and zip was the right call this draft.

Hopefully next year we load up for a gun spine.

 

[Carlthetruth]

Work rate is weakness in his draft profile, so it’s hardly unreasonable for anyone to go off that.

I’m curious as to how much you’ve supposedly watched him.

More than you, lock down gave plenty of people the opportunity to watch live streams and Sanfl footy. A bloke that gets it 25 times doesn't struggle moving around the ground. You made the claim he doesn't 2 way run and you base that on his profile! Watch him play, there are entire games on YouTube.

 

[loki04]

More than you, lock down gave plenty of people the opportunity to watch live streams and Sanfl footy. A bloke that gets it 25 times doesn't struggle moving around the ground. You made the claim he doesn't 2 way run and you base that on his profile! Watch him play, there are entire games on YouTube.

Out of interest does he get caught walking back to defence like Treloar when opposition clear it from midfield?

Not saying he does, I have no idea, just asking as I haven't seen him play

 

[ant22]

Translator needed please.... - on the club's website one of the strengths of a draftee is listed as "production" - any ideas what this means?

View attachment 1288517

I know its my problem but It really irks me that these very U.S sporting terms are being used. One person uses them and the sheep follow. Why can't we use our own terminology? What's wrong with saying they are ball magnets or win a heap of the footy etc. I am not sure what term annoys me more production or vanilla. I will get over it but we have so many great local terms to describe the attributes of our players, we don't need to copy what they do in the states.

 

[loki04]

I know its my problem but It really irks me that these very U.S sporting terms are being used. One person uses them and the sheep follow. Why can't we use our own terminology? What's wrong with saying they are ball magnets or win a heap of the footy etc. I am not sure what term annoys me more production or vanilla. I will get over it but we have so many great local terms to describe the attributes of our players, we don't need to copy what they do in the states.

What's wrong with Vanilla as a term?
(Outside that its my favourite flavour but that's another argument).

Vanilla is a great term to describe a player who has no tricks or outstanding attributes.

 

[ant22]

What's wrong with Vanilla as a term?
(Outside that its my favourite flavour but that's another argument).

Vanilla is a great term to describe a player who has no tricks or outstanding attributes.

It's another made up word that has only come in over the past couple of years. I would have thought mediocre or average would be suffice. Just another term that has come from the states. It's simply a personal opinion, people are welcome to like any terms they want but it just happens to irk me a little.

 

[loki04]

It's another made up word that has only come in over the past couple of years. I would have thought mediocre or average would be suffice. Just another term that has come from the states. It's simply a personal opinion, people are welcome to like any terms they want but it just happens to irk me a little.

I've been using vanilla as a descriptor for at least 20 years. Not a US term either.

 

[sr36]

Translator needed please.... - on the club's website one of the strengths of a draftee is listed as "production" - any ideas what this means?

View attachment 1288517

It means he's already produced two kids.

 

[slugger01]

I know its my problem but It really irks me that these very U.S sporting terms are being used. One person uses them and the sheep follow. Why can't we use our own terminology? What's wrong with saying they are ball magnets or win a heap of the footy etc. I am not sure what term annoys me more production or vanilla. I will get over it but we have so many great local terms to describe the attributes of our players, we don't need to copy what they do in the states.

I find it offensive that offense instead of attack is used in Australian sport.
Anyone else finds it an offense and wants to attack the offensive yanks?

 

[ant22]

I've been using vanilla as a descriptor for at least 20 years. Not a US term either.

So have I. For ice cream and milkshakes

 

[Finnishpie]

I think it’s fair to say with our list turnover in the past two years that the rebuild phase of the rebuild is close to complete. Now we are in the development phase, and the success and speed of success of that development will determine how deeply we need to hit the draft next year.

Hopefully we have great success developing some of these kids quickly (Henry McRae McInnes Daicos in particular but also Lipinski and Krueger to make an impact) and not too many babies need to be thrown out with the bath water. By this time next year hopefully we will have a high quality free agent and a top ten draft pick to round off the rebuild.

wish I was as optimistic, Timmy. Still need another 3 or so picks in the top 20 I reckon. Including one potentially elite KPP.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

wish I was as optimistic, Timmy. Still need another 3 or so picks in the top 20 I reckon. Including one potentially elite KPP.

I was including a top ten pick and a gun free agent in my assessment.

Absolutely it’s dependent upon how our players progress. If our recent draftees don’t come on then it’s back to the well. Daicos Henry and McInness were all top 20 picks in the past few years so we aren’t lacking in that regards.

 

[ant22]

I find it offensive that offense instead of attack is used in Australian sport.
Anyone else finds it an offense and wants to attack the offensive yanks?

To Bloody right! Forwards, Forward line, Attack all very expectable. Offence can P!ss off. I don't like defence either but strangely enough I can handle a backman being called a defender.

While where at it whats with kids these days saying "who are we versing this week?" My kids say it and it drives me bonkers.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I know its my problem but It really irks me that these very U.S sporting terms are being used. One person uses them and the sheep follow. Why can't we use our own terminology? What's wrong with saying they are ball magnets or win a heap of the footy etc. I am not sure what term annoys me more production or vanilla. I will get over it but we have so many great local terms to describe the attributes of our players, we don't need to copy what they do in the states.

I think it’s a misuse of the term anyway. “Production” refers to what players do with the ball, particularly in American football (i.e. how much yardage do they gain per touch). In Aussie rules however, if we are using it to describe a ball magnet, it really is a measure of their involvement in the game and not how effective or damaging they are with the ball. I think “accumulation” would be a more apt term.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

While where at it whats with kids these days saying "who are we versing this week?" My kids say it and it drives me bonkers.

FMD if I hear “versing” the death toll quickly rises. I hate that shit.

 

[sr36]

I think it’s fair to say with our list turnover in the past two years that the rebuild phase of the rebuild is close to complete. Now we are in the development phase, and the success and speed of success of that development will determine how deeply we need to hit the draft next year.

Hopefully we have great success developing some of these kids quickly (Henry McRae McInnes Daicos in particular but also Lipinski and Krueger to make an impact) and not too many babies need to be thrown out with the bath water. By this time next year hopefully we will have a high quality free agent and a top ten draft pick to round off the rebuild.

I think we'll go later with any free agent. Keep sorting out cap and start banking some. We're probably looking at four years of development for all the talented mids and flankers we've added. Hopefully they develop well and hopefully next year brings a tall or two and a couple of the speculative ones we've already added pay off. I'm beginning to get excited, as last year's crop looked good and this year's crop have exciting highlights.

I quite enjoy a development phase with its lower expectations and blue sky hope. I think we're in a really good spot in terms of development due to still having quality seniors to make us competitive and for the kids to learn from.

 

[sr36]

FMD if I hear “versing” the death toll quickly rises. I hate that sh*t.

I always assume they're talking about poetry.