Opinion Most overrated players from each team?

[Cuzz09]

apologies if brought up.

Its the same with Bradman discussions... Imagine him these days v guys bouncing/aiming at his body/amazing spin/

But then imagine if Steve Smith had to go to England on a ship for 3 months just to get there and fight pirates and dinosaurs ir whatever went on

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Cuzz09]

And that's fair enough if you say its from the 90s onwards.

I watched a bit of football in the 70s, but a lot from the 80s onwards. Matthews was phenomenal. He probably should have won the NS in 1983, but Robertson had a very good game.

He did things no-one before, during or after did. That is why he stands the test of time.

Yeah I respect that.

Anyway this thread is over rated players.

Matthews isn't over rated. He would up there as an all timer.



On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HairyO]

Yeah I respect that.

Anyway this thread is over rated players.

Matthews isn't over rated. He would up there as an all timer.



On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think someone mentioned Michael Tuck which again shows they have no clue. I think he came second in the Hawks B&F behind Matthews half a dozen times. Which is not a bad effort.

 

[Cuzz09]

A lot of people just hate a team/player and that's that.



On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gouki88]

apologies if brought up.

Its the same with Bradman discussions... Imagine him these days v guys bouncing/aiming at his body/amazing spin/

But then imagine if Steve Smith had to go to England on a ship for 3 months just to get there and fight pirates and dinosaurs ir whatever went on

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

Hahahaha. *ing brilliant

 

[Falcon3518]

He was obviously being humble or modest. You seriously think he should say "Nah, I was better than them" and sound like a complete jerk?

It’s got nothing to do with being better. Just physicality.

Besides when he said dusty is the only one comparable to him it’s an insult to the other greats of the game. He’s got no problem being a jerk.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[WilloTree]

Against plumbers. Pretty sure I heard a stat that mids today run 5-10km more than what they did in the 80s.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

haha, neither the distance nor the year are defined yet someone called it a 'stat'.

******* millenials.

 

[Falcon3518]

Yeah I respect that.

Anyway this thread is over rated players.

Matthews isn't over rated. He would up there as an all timer.



On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

Back then he wasn’t. But compared to players now imo he is. I don’t think he the GOAT anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Guardian Hawk]

3 goals a game averaged to today would be 1.5-2 using basic maths. Can’t stand when people don’t understand this. His goal total would be in the 400s like GAJ, still impressive though.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That's not the equivalent at all. Basic maths is evidently not your strong suit. How many midfielders of today's era have won the Coleman? 0! In fact, none even make the top 10!How many mids of any era, including when Lethal played, have won the Coleman - just Matthews. How many mids have kicked 90+ goals in a season in history - just Matthews. You act as though every midfielder was kicking goals like Matthews did back in the day.

In the 91 goal season (which is not the year he won the Coleman) the top 5 goalkickers were:

1. Peter Hudson 110 (full forward, greatest average of all time and fed by Matthews)
2. Leigh Matthews 91 (Rover)
3. Peter Moore 76 (full forward)
4. Larry Donohue 63 (full forward)
5. Bob Beecroft 59 (full forward)

4 players kicked 60+ and all bar Matthews were full forwards. He was more than doubling the tallies of the next best mids.

In 1975, Matthews won the Coleman and was the only player in the entire comp who kicked more than 60 goals (68). Only 4 other players - all full forwards - kicked more than 50 goals. Those are smaller tallies than today. Only 1 player in the entire comp was within 10 goals of him and no other midfielder was within a mile.

Matthews kicked 915 goals in his career. Who was next highest midfielder of all time? Probably Ablett Jnr who kicked 400 odd (less than half) and started and finished his career as a small forward.

The only other player in the history of this competition who you could argue did anything remotely similar was Kevin Bartlett - and he was much more a forward that he was a mid and STILL kicked 150 less goals.

It was highly standout and unusual for that era, just as it would be for now.

P.S. I'm not even arguing he is the best of all time BTW - I've made no reference to my opinion on his standing in the game. Just been highlighting than many of your arguments are absolutely ridiculous - like using awards that didn't even exist.

 

[Falcon3518]

That's not the equivalent at all. Basic maths is evidently not your strong suit. How many midfielders of today's era have won the Coleman? 0! In fact, none even make the top 10!How many mids of any era, including when Lethal played, have won the Coleman - just Matthews. How many mids have kicked 90+ goals in a season in history - just Matthews. You act as though every midfielder was kicking goals like Matthews did back in the day.

In the 91 goal season (which is not the year he won the Coleman) the top 5 goalkickers were:

1. Peter Hudson 110 (full forward, greatest average of all time and fed by Matthews)
2. Leigh Matthews 91 (Rover)
3. Peter Moore 76 (full forward)
4. Larry Donohue 63 (full forward)
5. Bob Beecroft 59 (full forward)

4 players kicked 60+ and all bar Matthews were full forwards. He was more than doubling the tallies of the next best mids. Matthews kicked 915 goals in his career. Who was next highest midfielder of all time? Probably Ablett Jnr who kicked 400 odd (less than half) and started and finished his career as a small forward.

The only other player in the history of this competition who you could argue did anything remotely similar was Kevin Bartlett - and he was much more a forward that he was a mid and STILL kicked 150 less goals.

It was highly standout and unusual for that era, just as it would be for now.

P.S. I'm not even arguing he is the best of all time - I've made no reference to my opinion on his standing in the game. Just been highlighting than many of your arguments are absolutely ridiculous - like using awards that didn't even exist.

Just look at the all time goals kickers list, many players averaged more goals per game than Buddy and by miles. Are you seriously suggesting players of buddy’s caliber were common in the VFL era? It’s a fact that goals back then we’re easier to get than today, not that they were more skilful than players today. The goal numbers are misleading and essentially inflated.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

It’s got nothing to do with being better. Just physicality.

Besides when he said dusty is the only one comparable to him it’s an insult to the other greats of the game. He’s got no problem being a jerk.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

"when he said dusty is the only one comparable to him it’s an insult to the other greats of the game" - that seems like it might be a fair point.

However, the question was posed by channel 9 clown, Billy Brownless, the morning after the tiger's 3rd premiership in 4 years. There's no other response unless you're a jerk of gargantuan proportions.

As a cats supporter, I definitely have issues with Matthews and his coach stemming from a certain broo-ha-ha back in 1985, but to call him over-rated is just laughable.

 

[hawkman]

Against plumbers. Pretty sure I heard a stat that mids today run 5-10km more than what they did in the 80s.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I remember the trackers from the late 90's and early 00's on the Harvey and Crawford type players and they were covering 3-4km that players do now.

The big difference now is that forwards and backs are covering much more territory, possibly 5-8km more. Mids are probably similar to what they were doing for decades

 

[GWT6]

Matthews should be remembered as the coward he was.

People talk about the Bruns assault like it was a one off. He would have had a few of those every season, just that one was on camera. Dirtiest player to ever play the game, weak prick that made a career out of hitting people that were not looking when he was getting beaten.
The AFL should be ashamed that he has an award named after him - but it's the same organisation that idolises Wayne Carey and Ted Wittern - boys club that celebrates dickhead.

 

[Falcon3518]

"when he said dusty is the only one comparable to him it’s an insult to the other greats of the game" - that seems like it might be a fair point.

However, the question was posed by channel 9 clown, Billy Brownless, the morning after the tiger's 3rd premiership in 4 years. There's no other response unless you're a jerk of gargantuan proportions.

As a cats supporter, I definitely have issues with Matthews and his coach stemming from a certain broo-ha-ha back in 1985, but to call him over-rated is just laughable.

You can still be a great player and be overrated. Overrated means the difference between how good people think you are compared to what you actually are. Eg people think lethal is A++ but I think he’s just A. The players I previously mentioned are the A+’s


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Just look at the all time goals kickers list, many players averaged more goals per game than Buddy and by miles. Are you seriously suggesting players of buddy’s caliber were common in the VFL era? It’s a fact that goals back then we’re easier to get than today, not that they were more skilful than players today. The goal numbers are misleading and essentially inflated.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Yes, of course different eras have produced different average levels but you are trying to argue goals are worth less than half which is no understanding of math whatsoever. My above post clearly shows this. As does all the mathematical adjusted to era goal tallies. He was miles more prolific than anyone of his own time as well as all time. Sure, mids kicked a few more goals in Matthews day. Occasionally, the most prolific mids would manage a 35-40 goal season. These days, the most prolific mid will manage a 30-35 goal season. But when others would kick 40, Matthews would kick 90!! Like today, no other mids in Matthews day were competing for the Coleman. It never happened by anyone else before, anyone else during or anyone else since. His 90 goal season then might be a 70 goal season now. How good a season would it take to be the leading possession and best mid in the league now AND kick 70 goals. It would be spoken about for decades - just as Matthews season rightfully is.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Matthews should be remembered as the coward he was.

People talk about the Bruns assault like it was a one off. He would have had a few of those every season, just that one was on camera. Dirtiest player to ever play the game, weak prick that made a career out of hitting people that were not looking when he was getting beaten.
The AFL should be ashamed that he has an award named after him - but it's the same organisation that idolises Wayne Carey and Ted Wittern - boys club that celebrates dickhead.

Was he one of the best players of all time? Absolutely
Was he one of the biggest thugs of all time? Also yes.

Most recognise and acknowledge both. Dirtiest player of all time? Laughable - not even close. I wouldn't even have him top 5 of his era.

Robbie Muir, David Rhys-Jones, Carl Diettrich and a host of others were worse. It was part of how the game was played then - acknowledging that Matthews was one of the bigger (and most high profile) offenders.

 

[GWT6]

Was he one of the best players of all time? Absolutely
Was he one of the biggest thugs of all time? Also yes.

Most recognise and acknowledge both. Dirtiest player of all time? Laughable - not even close. I wouldn't even have him top 5 of his era.

Robbie Muir, David Rhys-Jones, Carl Diettrich and a host of others were worse. It was part of how the game was played then - acknowledging that Matthews was one of the bigger (and most high profile) offenders.

Those blokes you mentioned were some of the biggest pieces of s**t to take the field - Even Big Carl when he was at Melbourne - But Matthews took it to a whole other lever.
He wasn't a hard player - he was a cowardly sniper assaulting players who were beating him. He didn't target the toughest blokes on the other side, he targeted players that were beating him fairly with skill. He waited until players were looking the other way and cowardly king hit them. He is the biggest piece of s**t to play the game, and should be remembered for it.

There was a Melbourne player that suffered brain damage from one of his cowardly hits. I hope one day he suffers a serious injury at the hands of a coward to understand what a germ he is.

 

[gouki88]

Was he one of the best players of all time? Absolutely
Was he one of the biggest thugs of all time? Also yes.

Most recognise and acknowledge both. Dirtiest player of all time? Laughable - not even close. I wouldn't even have him top 5 of his era.

Robbie Muir, David Rhys-Jones, Carl Diettrich and a host of others were worse. It was part of how the game was played then - acknowledging that Matthews was one of the bigger (and most high profile) offenders.

Jim O'Dea has entered the chat, simply in terms of damage wrought

 

[H00t]

You can still be a great player and be overrated. Overrated means the difference between how good people think you are compared to what you actually are. Eg people think lethal is A++ but I think he’s just A. The players I previously mentioned are the A+’s


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

You do know Leigh Matthews had a game where he had 41 disposals and kicked 11. This was against an Essendon team that made finals.

The next highest disposal winner on the ground was 26 and the next highest goal kicker only had 5. The whole Hawthorn team only has 300 disposals and he had 14% of them.

Dude was playing with cheat codes. If there was ever a game I wish they had detailed stats for its this one.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Guardian Hawk said:
Was he one of the best players of all time? Absolutely
Was he one of the biggest thugs of all time? Also yes.

Most recognise and acknowledge both. Dirtiest player of all time? Laughable - not even close. I wouldn't even have him top 5 of his era.

Robbie Muir, David Rhys-Jones, Carl Diettrich and a host of others were worse. It was part of how the game was played then - acknowledging that Matthews was one of the bigger (and most high profile) offenders.

Those blokes you mentioned were some of the biggest pieces of s**t to take the field - Even Big Carl when he was at Melbourne - But Matthews took it to a whole other lever.
He wasn't a hard player - he was a cowardly sniper assaulting players who were beating him. He didn't target the toughest blokes on the other side, he targeted players that were beating him fairly with skill. He waited until players were looking thew other way and cowardly king hit them. He is the biggest piece of s**t to play the game, and should be remembered for it.

There was a Melbourne player that suffered brain damage from one of his cowardly hits. I hope one day he suffers a serious injury at the hands of a coward to understand what a germ he is.

GWT6: the Melbourne player you were referring I think maybe Peter Giles. If so, I remember the incident well, it was in the goal square at Waverley Park and Lethal king hit Peter Giles from behind and knocked him out in one of the most cowardly acts I have seen on a football field and of course this wasn't the only time that Lethal did such a cowardly act as this. As it so happens years later through a business conversation I had with Peter Giles that went nowhere, I asked Peter at the end of conversation if he remembered the incident at the Waverley footy ground when Matthews king hit him from behind and if so, how he felt about the matter and he replied he indeed remembers the incident, saying it was a cowardly act that was disgraceful and he still was very upset over the incident all those years later and never forgave Matthews for what he did.

As far as Matthews the footballer is concerned, he along with Gary Ablett Snr and Wayne Carey are the best three footballers I have seen in over 50+ years of watching footy.

 

[Grrr]

Against plumbers. Pretty sure I heard a stat that mids today run 5-10km more than what they did in the 80s.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

There were plenty of great runners back in Matthew's day and the footy was pretty fast. 20 goals + per game was the norm, very few packs by comparison, no waiting around for the ball to be thrown up eventually by the ump, you played 100% of the game, yet Matthews a ruck rover still kicked 914 goals.

 

[Grrr]

If he had that attitude it’s an even bigger reason why he wouldn’t be able to compete against professionals. Poor work ethic, he could get away with it back then because they were part timers. Proves my point.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Think he might be having you on.

 

[Grrr]

Shouldn't the players actually be rated? I'll take a stab at players that are all actually good. But rated too high in my opinion.

Adelaide: Rory Sloane. Tough to find anyone rated, but Sloane has had a poor few years and seems to slide on by with the reputation of a gun because he is hard at the ball.
Brisbane: Daniel Rich. Amazing kick, absolute liability defensively.
Carlton: Jack Martin. Not sure anyone rates him anymore, but if you do, stop it.
Collingwood: Jordan DeGoey. Name outweighs output.
Essendon: Jake Stringer. Name outweighs output.
Fremantle: Michael Walters. Genuinely struggled here. Walters looks about done now. Has been a great player though.
Geelong: Jeremy Cameron. Call me when you decide a game in September pea heart.
Gold Coast: Matt Rowell. Call me when you get an uncontested possession iron heart.
GWS: Josh Kelly. Dude, you were supposed to be the best mid in the game four years ago. What happened?
Hawthorn: Jaeger Omeara. He plays an amazing game once every 8 weeks and then suddenly decides to play a game of guarding space for the other 7 weeks.
Melbourne: Luke Jackson. Being understudy to the greatest ruckman of our generation can't be that difficult.
North Melbourne: Cam Zurhaar. Unable to contribute to games consistently.
Port Adelaide: Karl Amon. Destined to be a free agency failure.
Richmond: Trent Cotchin. Just find some footy skip.
St.Kilda: Brad Hill. How good was that Hawthorn team to carry this bloke?
Sydney: Isaac Heeney. Great player but goes missing way too often for his talents.
West Coast: Tim Kelly...or am I too late? Is he no longer rated?
Western Bulldogs: Tom Liberatore. Best clearance player in the business. Anyone watching his defensive running though? Anyone notice he is the sweeper when Melbourne just break out of the centre and win a flag?

Cotchin is averaging 22 disposals per match, his highest since 2017, so he's finding it (not doing much with it granted). But nobody is rating Cotchin very highly these days... and he's not the skip.

 

[GWT6]

Guardian Hawk said:
Was he one of the best players of all time? Absolutely
Was he one of the biggest thugs of all time? Also yes.

Most recognise and acknowledge both. Dirtiest player of all time? Laughable - not even close. I wouldn't even have him top 5 of his era.

Robbie Muir, David Rhys-Jones, Carl Diettrich and a host of others were worse. It was part of how the game was played then - acknowledging that Matthews was one of the bigger (and most high profile) offenders.



GWT6: the Melbourne player you were referring I think maybe Peter Giles. If so, I remember the incident well, it was in the goal square at Waverley Park and Lethal king hit Peter Giles from behind and knocked him out in one of the most cowardly acts I have seen on a football field and of course this wasn't the only time that Lethal did such a cowardly act as this. As it so happens years later through a business conversation I had with Peter Giles that went nowhere, I asked Peter at the end of conversation if he remembered the incident at the Waverley footy ground when Matthews king hit him from behind and if so, how he felt about the matter and he replied he indeed remembers the incident, saying it was a cowardly act that was disgraceful, he still was very upset over the incident all those years later and never forgave Matthews for what he did.

As far as Matthews the footballer is concerned, he along with Gary Ablett Snr and Wayne Carey are the best three footballers I have seen in over 50+ years of watching footy.

That may be the one. There were about 3 big ones from Matthews against Melbourne - also get them confused with Breettons cowardly acts, the hit on Dean Chiron was right up there with Matthews's coward assaults.

 

[brutus76]

Lethal was the GOAT in the pre-professional footballer era - that's why the MVP is the Leith Matthews Trophy recipient

300 games 900 goals as a midfielder resting in the forward pocket

Great captain and leader - made others better

And i'm not a Hawks fan. My old man (over 70) will say the 3 freakiest players/matchwinners he saw were Polly Farmer, Lethal and Gazza Sr.