List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[JustaBattler]

In 9 seasons of football the best Martin has kicked is 24 goals in 2017 when he played 22 games.

He would need to play in the goal square for a full season (neither scenario likely) - to get anywhere near 50 goals.

From a durability and output point of view Fisher’s 2022 season >>> better than any of Martin’s past 3 seasons with the Blues.

Thats true and Fisher has been better at some stuff than Durdin/Owies and Motlop as well - and there is the challenge for Carlton - need to fix the non Charlie/Harry forward bits - because non of them kick enough goals as forwards - you know what forwards are supposed to be doing? Right now Fisher might be a starting 22 player- but that isn't a high benchmark to meet for forwards based on this year's performances.

Pressure is given - but forward craft and forward attacking systems ? I've got nothing here to point to apart from kick it to Charlie or Harry or somewhere thereabouts - where is teh space and danger being created and utilised by the 4 non Charlie/harry forwards?

Needs fixing.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Martin can kick 50 - if he stays on the park for a full season.

Sorry but that comment is not matched by any sense of reality in terms of his capacity to deliver that sort of output. In comparison Breust who has delivered year after year playing that role had a stellar year and kicked 40. I’d be very happy with half that tally. Indeed if he kicks 25 goals I reckon we make finals and go deep into September. If he kicks 50 goals next year we will win the flag.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Sorry but that comment is not matched by any sense of reality in terms of his capacity to deliver that sort of output. In comparison Breust who has delivered year after year playing that role had a stellar year and kicked 40. I’d be very happy with half that tally. Indeed if he kicks 25 goals I reckon we make finals and go deep into September. If he kicks 50 goals next year we will win the flag.

Breust? Terrific player. Would have loved to pick him up this off season, wasted at the Hawks now.

A fit Martin is a freak, almost a once in a generation player but yeah, we've seen little of that in his time at the Blues sadly.

4 goals in one quarter v the Tigers in his debut game for us in 2020 was but a tease....

Up to Martin himself and Jack R. and crew to fix his calf issues....

If he stays on the park (and yeah, that's now a big if), 50 goals is achievable.

 

[gbatman]

Forward line is the elephant in the room. Partly game plan, partly lack of leadership in the area, partly lack of quality, partly lack of fitness, partly lack of experience.

Imo we'll recruit at the draft and clean a few out at seasons end.

Half forwards not resting deep because forward pockets not fit enough to play up the ground.

Pressure around the ball, defenders playing loose and killing us with intercepting and rebounding killing us. No second game plan and no leadership to man up the lose defenders.

Small forwards not fit enough to run up and back and apply intensity at the contest, evident by time on ground being low but typical fitness levels of youngsters.

Curnow but mostly McKay getting outmarked a little too often.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Breust? Terrific player. Would have loved to pick him up this off season, wasted at the Hawks now.

A fit Martin is a freak, almost a once in a generation player but yeah, we've seen little of that in his time at the Blues sadly.

4 goals in one quarter v the Tigers in his debut game for us in 2020 was but a tease....

Up to Martin himself and Jack R. and crew to fix his calf issues....

If he stays on the park (and yeah, that's now a big if), 50 goals is achievable.

Dusty is a super player, but with his injuries and age starting to become a factor, doubt he could kick 50 goals...

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Forward line is the elephant in the room. Partly game plan, partly lack of leadership in the area, partly lack of quality, partly lack of fitness, partly lack of experience.

Imo we'll recruit at the draft and clean a few out at seasons end.

Half forwards not resting deep because forward pockets not fit enough to play up the ground.

Pressure around the ball, defenders playing loose and killing us with intercepting and rebounding killing us. No second game plan and no leadership to man up the lose defenders.

Small forwards not fit enough to run up and back and apply intensity at the contest, evident by time on ground being low but typical fitness levels of youngsters.

Curnow but mostly McKay getting outmarked a little too often.

Curnow more than did his job, Harry too was largely good but scope to improve....

Durdin, Motlop, Owies - The first two will only be better for the game time in '22 and an extra pre season will see fitness/endurance levels jump markedly.

Owies I like but he too was hindered by injury during '22 - missed a swag of games and really wasn't 'on' when he came back into the team. If he can score a goal a game and apply huge defensive pressure he's got a spot...



The 3rd/4th tall spot is the big issue - can Martin stay on the park, will JSOS be allowed to play permanently in that role, will Honey come on as a player?

 

[gbatman]

Curnow more than did his job, Harry too was largely good but scope to improve....

Durdin, Motlop, Owies - The first two will only be better for the game time in '22 and an extra pre season will see fitness/endurance levels jump markedly.

Owies I like but he too was hindered by injury during '22 - missed a swag of games and really wasn't 'on' when he came back into the team. If he can score a goal a game and apply huge defensive pressure he's got a spot...

View attachment 1541459

The 3rd/4th tall spot is the big issue - can Martin stay on the park, will JSOS be allowed to play permanently in that role, will Honey come on as a player?

A strong preseason. Get fitter, stronger. Developing our game plan. Must evolve to accommodate the pressure game. Developing leadership and communication up forward. Recruit another good small/medium forward. McKay to focus on strength and going back with the flight/bringing the ball to ground. Forward line is the area we need to tidy up and all aspects of it.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

A strong preseason. Get fitter, stronger. Developing our game plan. Must evolve to accommodate the pressure game. Developing leadership and communication up forward. Recruit another good small/medium forward. McKay to focus on strength and going back with the flight/bringing the ball to ground. Forward line is the area we need to tidy up and all aspects of it.

ps delivery into the F50 needs to be tidied up a lot too.

 

[Stamos]

Isn't that Honey?

Honey and Cunners are the 2 on our list, and we missed them badly this year.
Not sure how reliable they're going to be in the future, it's a role we should be aiming for in the draft.

 

[gbatman]

ps delivery into the F50 needs to be tidied up a lot too.

100% But we need to be aware of when pressure around the ball is the focus and the ball will be going forward blindly. Up to forwards to make the call and setup accordingly. Or you get what we saw in the first quarter of round 23. This is missing from our game plan and the cohesion from all the field to adapt and play position accordingly.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

100% But we need to be aware of when pressure around the ball is the focus and the ball will be going forward blindly. Up to forwards to make the call and setup accordingly. Or you get what we saw in the first quarter of round 23. This is missing from our game plan and the cohesion from all the field to adapt and play position accordingly.

isn't that a coaching/system/process thing then?

 

[gbatman]

isn't that a coaching/system/process thing then?

Yes. Fed from the coaches to the players who's leadership skills determine when things get implemented.

 

[Stamos]

Bolton at Richmond is the gold standard in that role. I think it’s reasonable to say the likes of Bailey, Gresham, Moore, Coniglio, Gulden, Powell-Pepper, Lipinski, Close and Ainsworth are better than him playing a similar role.

Most of those guys playing a lot more midfield, so they'll have a more possessions.
But he doesn't have to improve that much to be getting those numbers.

 

[JuddgementDay]

I feel quite confident with the list we have and can see a lot of upside with injured players returning

It’s nice to only have to worry about role players now and not the core of the group.

We’ve filled a wing role with Acres and now need the HFF role to be filled from within. Fisher/ Martin has one side. The other side from: Cuners, Honey, Philp or even Carroll - there’s no pressure or desperate need for the rookies to fill this role.

Now how about a bit of luck with injuries?

 

[GoBlues!]

Thats true and Fisher has been better at some stuff than Durdin/Owies and Motlop as well - and there is the challenge for Carlton - need to fix the non Charlie/Harry forward bits - because non of them kick enough goals as forwards - you know what forwards are supposed to be doing? Right now Fisher might be a starting 22 player- but that isn't a high benchmark to meet for forwards based on this year's performances.

Pressure is given - but forward craft and forward attacking systems ? I've got nothing here to point to apart from kick it to Charlie or Harry or somewhere thereabouts - where is teh space and danger being created and utilised by the 4 non Charlie/harry forwards?

Needs fixing.

Agree JaB. None of our small/mid side forwards provide a genuine 3rd target.

Cripps (20 goals), Fisher (18), JSOS (17), Durdin (15), Owies (14) and Motlop (12) have all contributed.

Would love a serious 3rd target preferably a fast leading/marking type like a Fritsch/LeCras.

 

[SurreyBlue]

IMO, we don’t need any more small medium forwards. We have a plethora that need to be either developed or moved on in the next couple of years. What we need now is one or 2 KP forwards (ideally who can ruck) and some running midfielders with speed who can carry and distribute. Priority this draft.

 

[bmaurizio]

I feel quite confident with the list we have and can see a lot of upside with injured players returning

It’s nice to only have to worry about role players now and not the core of the group.

We’ve filled a wing role with Acres and now need the HFF role to be filled from within. Fisher/ Martin has one side. The other side from: Cuners, Honey, Philp or even Carroll - there’s no pressure or desperate need for the rookies to fill this role.

Now how about a bit of luck with injuries?

Agree luck has deserted us for years, the perennially injured are
quasi constant, Cunners, Marchy, Gov, maybe Martin & Williams too?
A good run, with just two of these players , would create a better balanced team and able to develop cohesiveness and more positive momentum.

 

[bmaurizio]

A strong preseason. Get fitter, stronger. Developing our game plan. Must evolve to accommodate the pressure game. Developing leadership and communication up forward. Recruit another good small/medium forward. McKay to focus on strength and going back with the flight/bringing the ball to ground. Forward line is the area we need to tidy up and all aspects of it.

Agree you make some concrete observation, but wining the contested ball & creative, quality delivery into the forward line is crucial, it’s always been the game right there.
We have the skilled fwd aerialist and some magic at there feet in Martin, Durdin & Motlop just that our youngsters need a little time.
I reckon quality distribution for the wings and midfielders in general can improve , its a little wanting.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Most of those guys playing a lot more midfield, so they'll have a more possessions.
But he doesn't have to improve that much to be getting those numbers.

I’m interested to know who do you consider a comparison to Fisher then?

 

[Doro]

Agree luck has deserted us for years, the perennially injured are
quasi constant, Cunners, Marchy, Gov, maybe Martin & Williams too?
A good run, with just two of these players , would create a better balanced team and able to develop cohesiveness and more positive momentum.

The thing with all of those names is they were all injury prone before arrival at the club. The hope being for a change in the pattern, when it's mostly been more of the same. Worth consideration at list management level.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Dusty is a super player, but with his injuries and age starting to become a factor, doubt he could kick 50 goals...

I agree its just not reality to think Jack Martin will kick 50 goals in a season. You can almost win the Coleman kicking 50 goals in a season. As I said before if Jack can play more than 18 games and kick 25 goals for the season I’ll be very happy.

 

[JustaBattler]

Agree JaB. None of our small/mid side forwards provide a genuine 3rd target.

Cripps (20 goals), Fisher (18), JSOS (17), Durdin (15), Owies (14) and Motlop (12) have all contributed.

Would love a serious 3rd target preferably a fast leading/marking type like a Fritsch/LeCras.

You'd want the combination of all these smaller forwards to be kicking an average of a goal a game as a unit- right now your numbers show that as a combination they are way below a goal a game each. Not good enough. Makes me question forward line coaching as much as ability. Pressure and talking stats are finals quality - but you need forwards who can both pressure and score. The common denominator is too many of our forwards are poor set shot kicks - again fingers crossed Cuningham he is one of the best set shot and running shot kicks on the list.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

You'd want the combination of all these smaller forwards to be kicking an average of a goal a game as a unit- right now your numbers show that as a combination they are way below a goal a game each. Not good enough. Makes me question forward line coaching as much as ability. Pressure and talking stats are finals quality - but you need forwards who can both pressure and score. The common denominator is too many of our forwards are poor set shot kicks - again fingers crossed Cuningham he is one of the best set shot and running shot kicks on the list.

Glass half full, or glass half empty.

Owies averages 1.1 a game in 2020, under one this year due to injury imo.

Durdin and Motlop - both will average 1+ goals a game next year. Not much of a step up from their respective status quos?

They're kids getting a handle on the game, physically and mentally.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Agree JaB. None of our small/mid side forwards provide a genuine 3rd target.

Cripps (20 goals), Fisher (18), JSOS (17), Durdin (15), Owies (14) and Motlop (12) have all contributed.

Would love a serious 3rd target preferably a fast leading/marking type like a Fritsch/LeCras.

The fact our best midfielder is our third leading goal kicker is all you need to know about our forward options outside of Harry and Charlie.

Those goal tallies are nothing to get excited about. Sam Powell Pepper and Bailey Banfield kicked more goals than all of our forwards on that list.

Sure Durdin and Mots have time on their side but the goalkicking output from the rest of them is quite simply below average.

H and C get doubled constantly because the opposition know their can zone off with confidence there is nobody else who’ll hurt them on the scoreboard.

 

[JustaBattler]

Glass half full, or glass half empty.

Owies averages 1.1 a game in 2020, under one this year due to injury imo.

Durdin and Motlop - both will average 1+ goals a game next year. Not much of a step up from their respective status quos?

They're kids getting a handle on the game, physically and mentally.

I don't know what any player will average next year tbh. Some amount of improving ability to score would be welcome- we missed finals by a 0.6% which is why I am thinking maybe scoring more from more players and not just the prenially double teamed Charlie and Harry might be of some relevance - call it glass half empty if you like or whatever...