Coach Adam Simpson Megathread est. 2017 - Staying for 2024, Lyon’s Cryin’

[Big_Birdy]

I should revise my comments...

I don't know if our drafting has necessarily been bad, or whether we've drafted decent players and failed to develop them. I'm not an expert on picking out young talent... but it seems like we generally prioritise hard work and discipline over skills and abilities. Which tends to net you a player like Ainsworth, who worked his arse off, but couldn't hold a football correctly.

Ainsworth is really the only shocker in that whole list. Anyone over pick 45 is a complete raffle and should never be expected to get games (think we have done quite well with them to be honest). So forget them.

Newman had behaviour/attitude issues. Ditto Cameron. The talent was there.

Parto has had a very good career in the SANFL. Sure didn't make it, but had AFL attributes. Hard to crack such a strong team. Probably the unluckiest on the list. If he was drafted to a struggling team he may have gained some momentum in his career. His ceiling was probably a Jackson Nelson type career.


Karpany actually contributed in a couple of games. Really wasn't that bad we were just pretty strong over his time. Not the best ever selection but in the 30s and those are usually 50/50. At least looked like a footballer at times.

Tom Lamb - looked like he could play, just didn't want to. Argue that wasn't us as he went to Saints and had same issue.


Ainsworth gave his all. Probably a great club man and person. But he had no business being near an AFL field. It is baffling.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Got rid of Mitch O'Neil too early IMO.

We keep spuds forever yet cut a well credentialed player like him quickly without seeing what he can do, presumably due to his back.

U18 AA midfielder, good numbers, a lot to like.


He was back playing good state footy soon after we let him go.

 

[Balls In]

Loose to the bombers by 100 at home and by 150 to the pies at the G ought to seal the deal.
People will refuse to go to games, refuse to tune in.
We don’t need a royal commission, just make changes, take actions.

This is why I can't understand the whole "we should keep Simpson because no other coach would do better" attitude. Smacks of defeatism. Simpson is leading us into a third long year of abject failure and has been at the helm for 10 years. He owns much of this shit. We don't know if another coackh could do better given the circumstances but we can be positive they couldn't do any worse.

 

[DanWCE]

Got rid of Mitch O'Neil too early IMO.

We keep spuds forever yet cut a well credentialed player like him quickly without seeing what he can do, presumably due to his back.

U18 AA midfielder, good numbers, a lot to like.


He was back playing good state footy soon after we let him go.

What's he up to these days?

 

[DanWCE]

This is why I can't understand the whole "we should keep Simpson because no other coach would do better" attitude. Smacks of defeatism. Simpson is leading us into a third long year of abject failure and has been at the helm for 10 years. He owns much of this s**t. We don't know if another coackh could do better given the circumstances but we can be positive they couldn't do any worse.

A new coach wouldn't be given the luxury of getting to focus much on the actual role at all. They'd be a rookie coach to start with, because no senior coach with a track record is stepping into this mess. I reckon they'd be chewed up and spat out by the media within 2 seasons and in that time the club would have treaded water because the coach was so busy putting out fires and jumping at media shadows that he couldn't actually nut out the job he was there to do.

Simmo is an overpaid shield until 2025.

 

[Dark Sharks]

What's he up to these days?

Appears he's playing in the SANFL for South Adelaide.

Averaging roughly 27 touches, 7 tackles, 7 clearances and 103 ranking points a game apparently.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

U18 AA midfielder, good numbers, a lot to like.

Ainsworth?

 

[DanWCE]

Appears he's playing in the SANFL for South Adelaide.

Averaging roughly 27 touches, 7 tackles, 7 clearances and 103 ranking points a game apparently.

Good numbers. Reckon he will go to another level as Tassies inaugural captain

 

[shooshka]

Ainsworth is really the only shocker in that whole list. Anyone over pick 45 is a complete raffle and should never be expected to get games (think we have done quite well with them to be honest). So forget them.

Newman had behaviour/attitude issues. Ditto Cameron. The talent was there.

Parto has had a very good career in the SANFL. Sure didn't make it, but had AFL attributes. Hard to crack such a strong team. Probably the unluckiest on the list. If he was drafted to a struggling team he may have gained some momentum in his career. His ceiling was probably a Jackson Nelson type career.


Karpany actually contributed in a couple of games. Really wasn't that bad we were just pretty strong over his time. Not the best ever selection but in the 30s and those are usually 50/50. At least looked like a footballer at times.

Tom Lamb - looked like he could play, just didn't want to. Argue that wasn't us as he went to Saints and had same issue.


Ainsworth gave his all. Probably a great club man and person. But he had no business being near an AFL field. It is baffling.

I think, whilst good in theory, generally staying away from flogs hasn’t served us well.

Sure we have had a handful of off field issues, but generally we rule out those with ego or abrasive personalities pretty early.

Funny thing about 18yo’s is they mature… as they go from a big fish in a small pond at U18 level to a small fish in a big pond at AFL level they have to.

Lazy we should probably steer clear of, but outside of that we need to back our culture (if it is not strong enough then build it!).


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[Dark Sharks]

Ainsworth?

The idea of Brayden in theory i'm sure looked a lot better than the actual reality of Brayden.


Getting "the best clearances player in the draft" and slimming him back to ripped string bean size (his last AFL playing weight of 80kg's was legit 600g heavier than his listed draft weight of 79.4kg), and then playing him in some rando outside gimp Masten role with his poor footskills probably wasn't the best idea in the world for his development.



His debut game in 2018 of 15 Disposals, 7 contested and 8 tackles was still better than anything Chesser is yet to produce.

Chesser is also a first round draft pick and 2nd year player, whilst Brayden was pick 32 and a first year player in 2018.


Ainsworths debut season was his best year of AFL footy. He looked decent. Initially i had hope. He went alarmingly backwards after that. Very very badly.

 

[Bender_]

Got rid of Mitch O'Neil too early IMO.

We keep spuds forever yet cut a well credentialed player like him quickly without seeing what he can do, presumably due to his back.

U18 AA midfielder, good numbers, a lot to like.


He was back playing good state footy soon after we let him go.

How do you not know it was a pre-emptive rejection before losing him to the Tassie team?

 

[Dark Sharks]

Mitch O'Neil is also who we have to thank for Temper your ExpectationsTM

 

[Feeling Groovy]

When you look at our pretty poor draft hands over the years you can make a claim we haven't had much to work with and picks 35 plus are raffles etc. That is no doubt true, but when you look at the collective we simply have’t nailed enough late picks. At least some of those players needed to be best 22 and not enough were/ are. That is a big failure.

Again, we have had some bad luck but very few of the later picks were successes. We have reached or skipped over more credentialed mids for speculative or very limited players and that’s fine if it works but it clearly hasn’t.

 

[RookiePick]

The idea of Brayden in theory i'm sure looked a lot better than the actual reality of Brayden.


Getting "the best clearances player in the draft" and slimming him back to ripped string bean size (his last AFL playing weight of 80kg's was legit 600g heavier than his listed draft weight of 79.4kg), and then playing him in some rando outside gimp Masten role with his poor footskills probably wasn't the best idea in the world for his development.



His debut game in 2018 of 15 Disposals, 7 contested and 8 tackles was still better than anything Chesser is yet to produce.

Chesser is also a first round draft pick and 2nd year player, whilst Brayden was pick 32 and a first year player in 2018.


Ainsworths debut season was his best year of AFL footy. He looked decent. Initially i had hope. He went alarmingly backwards after that. Very very badly.

Thanks.For.Reminding.Me.

Brayden got absolutely stooged by our development pathway for him. Tossed his strengths in the bin and then tried to jam the skinny noodle we had made into the wrong shaped slot. A failed career, not of his own making IMO.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

One thing that sticks with me from that Fitzgerald interview earlier in the week is that he brought up the fact that he publicly declared at the end of 2022 that he thought we would make the finals in 2023. Ryan Daniels didn't bring it up (Why would he given what a bootlicker he is). You would think he would have just not mentioned it and have pretended that this was all always expected and part of a grand plan. But he brought it up and he wasn't the least bit embarassed and was talking as though this was a totally reasonable misjudgement and everybody else got it wrong along with him.

And it made me think what kind of all groupthink must be pervading and encompassing the entire club for him to think that that was a majority or consensus position at the time. It was a total outlier position. Nobody else in the entire AFL industry agreed with them plus (i think) a majority of their own supporters would have been thinking that that was way too optimistic. They must have their heads totally in the sand if they didn't realise what an outlier their position was.

I suspect there are probably ideological purity tests for anybody working there. Nisbett sets the orthodoxy from the top for the staff there in terms of what opinions are acceptable (i.e. his opinions) and which opinions are not (i.e. anything other than his opinion). We all know what a control freak he is. You are not going to be right about everything all the time as a leader. You have to allow contrary opinions to be expressed within the 4 walls. You might not agree with them and might reject them in the end. But you have to allow them to be expressed and considered. And you have to be aware of where your opinion sits on the spectrum. If the rest of the industry disagrees with you and you are an outlier it doesn't mean you should substitute their judgement for your own and totally change tack to be in sync with them. But it does mean you should rethink your own position and be really sure that you think you are right and everybody else is wrong.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

One thing that sticks with me from that Fitzgerald interview earlier in the week is that he brought up the fact that he publicly declared at the end of 2022 that he thought we would make the finals in 2023. Ryan Daniels didn't bring it up (Why would he given what a bootlicker he is).

I watched the extended version of that interview and I’m fairly certain Daniels brought it up.

Edit: yep, at 7.40

West Coast chairman backs under-fire Eagles coach Adam Simpson

It comes after the Eagles were smashed in a bottom of the table clash with Hawthorn.

7news.com.au

 

[Hook461123]

A new coach wouldn't be given the luxury of getting to focus much on the actual role at all. They'd be a rookie coach to start with, because no senior coach with a track record is stepping into this mess. I reckon they'd be chewed up and spat out by the media within 2 seasons and in that time the club would have treaded water because the coach was so busy putting out fires and jumping at media shadows that he couldn't actually nut out the job he was there to do.

Simmo is an overpaid shield until 2025.

I do agree that this is whats happening. Simmo is being used as a shield to take the heat before a new coach comes in, with a better list and we are on the improve.

I don't really like the idea though. It means Simmo is just coaching out time while we pay big money on his contract at the expense of other areas in the football dept. There are no fresh ideas or enthusiasm for 2 and half more seasons and all the players will know that he is just biding his time.
Maybe Simmo and Nesbett have stronger character (or less pride) then I do but I know when I was forced to work out my contract after being told my position was being made redundant, I felt like sh*t and it hardly creates a good work environment. To have the two biggest characters within the club just biding time until the end of their contracts knowing they are not going to be reappointed will be a detriment to the club environment imo.

Yes a new coach will come in under fire but they will have low expecations placed on them and have the ability to really make a name for themselves if they are able to make it work. They also know that we back in our coaches and if they do a good job they will be reappointed. We've had 6 coaches in our history and 3 of them have been 9+ years........Or we could just sit here and do nothing different for the next 2 and half seasons.

 

[DanWCE]

I do agree that this is whats happening. Simmo is being used as a shield to take the heat before a new coach comes in, with a better list and we are on the improve.

I don't really like the idea though. It means Simmo is just coaching out time while we pay big money on his contract at the expense of other areas in the football dept. There are no fresh ideas or enthusiasm for 2 and half more seasons and all the players will know that he is just biding his time.
Maybe Simmo and Nesbett have stronger character (or less pride) then I do but I know when I was forced to work out my contract after being told my position was being made redundant, I felt like sh*t and it hardly creates a good work environment. To have the two biggest characters within the club just biding time until the end of their contracts knowing they are not going to be reappointed will be a detriment to the club environment imo.

Yes a new coach will come in under fire but they will have low expecations placed on them and have the ability to really make a name for themselves if they are able to make it work. They also know that we back in our coaches and if they do a good job they will be reappointed. We've had 6 coaches in our history and 3 of them have been 9+ years........Or we could just sit here and do nothing different for the next 2 and half seasons.

I'm not sure Simmo has been told he's done at the conclusion of 2025, that's just my estimation. The worm will turn at some point and the heat will die down, so he might even get another year or so, but I believe he'll move on or be replaced once we have the nucleus of our next finals contending team in place.

By 2025 his 3 oldest kids are out of school and his youngest is transitioning to high school so that might just be the right time for him to relocate if the journey is finished in WA.

 

[EagleEgo]

One thing that sticks with me from that Fitzgerald interview earlier in the week is that he brought up the fact that he publicly declared at the end of 2022 that he thought we would make the finals in 2023. Ryan Daniels didn't bring it up (Why would he given what a bootlicker he is). You would think he would have just not mentioned it and have pretended that this was all always expected and part of a grand plan. But he brought it up and he wasn't the least bit embarassed and was talking as though this was a totally reasonable misjudgement and everybody else got it wrong along with him.

And it made me think what kind of all groupthink must be pervading and encompassing the entire club for him to think that that was a majority or consensus position at the time. It was a total outlier position. Nobody else in the entire AFL industry agreed with them plus (i think) a majority of their own supporters would have been thinking that that was way too optimistic. They must have their heads totally in the sand if they didn't realise what an outlier their position was.

I suspect there are probably ideological purity tests for anybody working there. Nisbett sets the orthodoxy from the top for the staff there in terms of what opinions are acceptable (i.e. his opinions) and which opinions are not (i.e. anything other than his opinion). We all know what a control freak he is. You are not going to be right about everything all the time as a leader. You have to allow contrary opinions to be expressed within the 4 walls. You might not agree with them and might reject them in the end. But you have to allow them to be expressed and considered. And you have to be aware of where your opinion sits on the spectrum. If the rest of the industry disagrees with you and you are an outlier it doesn't mean you should substitute their judgement for your own and totally change tack to be in sync with them. But it does mean you should rethink your own position and be really sure that you think you are right and everybody else is wrong.

Organisation like the WCE must have Performance Agreement and Appraisal System in place.
It is not a matter of embarrassment, it is a matter of not performing to agreement. I believe when the Chairman said we will be playing final in 2023, this requirement will be on most key WCE personnel‘s 2023 Performance Agreement.
When this requirement is almost certain to fail, appropriate action need to be taken. This is exactly what is happening.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Ainsworths debut season was his best year of AFL footy. He looked decent. Initially i had hope. He went alarmingly backwards after that. Very very badly.

My recollection is that he had an issue with a finger that was never corrected as a junior, hence his odd ball drop, which was (presumably) a reason for his poor kicking. He had surgery to correct it after his first season.

The whole thing was pretty weird... how did no one deal with the issue when he was a junior? Surely a potential draftee would have corrected the issue several seasons earlier while he was still developing? No one told him to get it fixed? And how did West Coast draft him, let him play for a year and then decide he needed corrective surgery. Did they then expect a 20 year old to completely change the way he kicked? Why would you draft a player like that at 33? Maybe take a chance on a rookie listing... but pick 33?

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

And how did West Coast ... let him play for a year and then decide he needed corrective surgery.

You do follow this club right?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Organisation like the WCE must have Performance Agreement and Appraisal System in place.
It is not a matter of embarrassment, it is a matter of not performing to agreement. I believe when the Chairman said we will be playing final in 2023, this requirement will be on most key WCE personnel‘s 2023 Performance Agreement.
When this requirement is almost certain to fail, appropriate action need to be taken. This is exactly what is happening.

Pretty doubtful.

There’s a big gap between saying “we think we can make finals” and putting it in employee’s performance agreements as a requirement.

 

[RookiePick]

Pretty doubtful.

There’s a big gap between saying “we think we can make finals” and putting it in employee’s performance agreements as a requirement.

mUST BE SOME SWEATY PALMS AT cOCKBURN IF IT WORKS LIKE THIS.

 

[footy_basis]

It's disappointing to see shuey rolled out and on the defensive. It's a big boy club with jobs for the boys - nepotism is rife.

If we are to believe shuey and Simpson, we've just got a bunch of players with glass ankles and there is no blame to be attached to anyone. It's just a ridiculous assertion.

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[Astro7]

This is why I can't understand the whole "we should keep Simpson because no other coach would do better" attitude. Smacks of defeatism. Simpson is leading us into a third long year of abject failure and has been at the helm for 10 years. He owns much of this s**t. We don't know if another coach could do better given the circumstances but we can be positive they couldn't do any worse.

Is it really defeatism? Maybe it's realism? But to get another coach in who 'couldn't do any worse' sounds defeatist to me, or pointless. Does the new coach carry on with transitioning the team along with Simmo's new game plan, or does he try to install a new one? That would seem like a backward and confusing move to me.
Shuey has stated the team totally backs Simmo in and he's the man to see it through..yes, this could be club propaganda, and yes other teams have said similar and then had a new coach..but changing horses midstream doesn't seem prudent to me. Arguably Tigers are at a comfortable stage to lose/change coaches, nothing like our situation. But I can't argue with 'he owns much of this s**t', relating to adapting, drafting, tactics, but not injuries. Given the dire and unique situation we're in, we'd have to make sure the next coach is 'red hot' and comes with all the credentials and laurels we need to to rise up again? (and like most things footy, that doesn't come with a guarantee of course)