List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 6

[Coach_Required]

I don't believe HH is a worthwhile investment.

Only will cost us cap space, I don't understand how it's not worthwhile. He plugs a hole, fills a need so we can plan for life after Lynch.

 

[Lsta062]

NFI how you link posts. And the search function here is the most useless search function on the internet, you have to go back and search thread by thread. Here's a few about 2m Peter. Buggered if i'm searching as much for for Van Rooyen. There ya go I even wanted Isaac Smith for free from Hawks. Dude didn't start AFL til 23 so his bodies fresh probably got another few years in him. A great pickup by the Cats.

I was hoping Jye Amiss would be around for our Gibcus pick as I was sure Gold Coast wouldn't really waste pick 5 on Mac Andrew so I didn't think Gibcus would be around but wanted either Amiss or Van Rooyen with our 1st pick. Was shattered we picked up another HBF instead of Van Rooyen. I was the one who kept cracking it bagging the Brown pick over Van Rooyen but eased off on constantly posting in the thread on the 1% chance the kids dumb enough to read his thread here.

I wanted Lynch in his draft year and almost smashed the tv when Conca's name was called out. Had to look up emma quayle and whoever else did the ratings to look him up as never ever heard him mentioned as a top 30 pick. Most had him listed 30-50 pick range. but still remember shifter sheahan saying tigers will be licking their lips to land lynch as he'll be the perfect richo replacement and terry wallace said tigers would be fools to not take him. Watched him in an under 18's game and the kid had superstar written all over him.

I also was seething when Lark Medallist Oscar Allen was overloooked fo CCJ but wtf do I and the Lark medallist voters know that our recruiter doesn't? He identified something about CCJ that was imagined cos it's never materialised. I played KPD and occasionally KPF so I prefer watching the big boys than mids racking up disposals. Maric demanded the recruiters take Balta also as he said trust him he'd develop him, so they really shouldn't get the credit for that Maric should.

Yeah the club have nailed Balta, Bolton and plenty other's but we have practically flushed 10 years worth of 1st round picks down the sh1tter. without so much as pick 80 coming back. The cats kids who fail to get games always get traded for a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder back (usually an improvement) ours are playing suburban footy by 24 years old. And our KPF drafting and negligence the last few years has been so bad there should be a royal commission.


View attachment 1706132


View attachment 1706134


View attachment 1706135


View attachment 1706137

Since we’re going with a new coach, I also think we need to consider a new lead recruiter as well. Let’s just freshen up the drafting and trade/free agency perspective for the next era

 

[Lsta062]

I don't believe HH is a worthwhile investment.

Genuine question, but what about him makes you think that? Is it because you don’t rate his forward ability compared to the salary he’d command?

From what I have seen, he’s a pretty good mark of the ball and would be worth it.

 

[Lsta062]

What do people think about Naughton? I heard his name being floated around and remember how much he destroyed us in 2018 or 2019 (don’t remember which one it was).

His drawback is his kicking for goal though. Just don’t need a player that struggles with that

 

[TiggerDK]

Sam McClure is an oxygen thief and worse than Karen Cornes.

 

[Noidnadroj]

He turned 27 about 3 weeks ago mate. 159 goals at 65% strike rate from about 100 games as a forward. Elite! And kicked most of these when Jeremy Cameron was 1st, 2nd and 3rd option. Elite efficiency. One of the absolute best kicks in the league. Forward line or Back this man is your Robin to any Batman.

We have plenty of Chiefs this man is about as good an Indian (Indigenous American) as there is.

Yes… he turned 27yo 3 weeks ago. Meaning he turns 28yo in about R8 of 2024. Which is what I said … turns 28yo early in season 2024.

I think he’s a good player. I don’t want to give 5-year big money deals to ‘good’ players. That’s what Carlton have been doing for years : McGovern, Williams, Martin … save the coin for A-graders and if we’ve got some cap space front end some contracts.

If we get HH I won’t be shattered, I just don’t think it’s a good use of $3.5m over 5-years as that’s what it will take to get him.

If he was sub-25yo I’d have a different opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Noidnadroj]

The posters saying no to HH are probs the ones who said no to Prestia ( pick ), said no to Lynch ( money ) and said no to Taranto and Hopper ( picks ) They will always say no because they are posters who are obsessed with picks and drafting.

Also they are posters who would prefer to load up the side with sixteen 22 and unders and develop for 7 years picking up 1st rounders along the way for that one year at glory and then start all over again.

Posters who's season starts in October as that's what excites them more, the actual season is all about draft picks and a loss is never frowned upon ( even though they pretend it does by acting all outraged ) as it's a step closer to a better pick. Trade period is all about seeing who Richmond off load in that quest for a pick, spending a pick to bring a player in oh the horror, how could Richmond do such a stupid thing because all you ever read is them bemoaning the fact that picks were given away right up until draft night.

Saying no to HH who would slot in next to Lynch and allow Ryan to continue to develop next to Nank where he will eventually take over is shortsighted IMO.

And finally, any poster who says they wouldn't be against trading out Dusty because it would bring in a high pick is not a true Richmond fan because no true Richmond fan would ever say this.

I’m against HH as I don’t think he’s high quality enough to justify the price tag and turning 28yo in 2024 is a bit old to be bringing someone in who is not elite (I was in favour of all other trades you mentioned).

However, I will qualify this by saying if we have genuinely zero other ‘irons in the fire’ for any other KPF in the next 2-seasons, and we are not confident in any of Bradtke, Bauer or Biggy being a viable option long-term, I’d be OK with getting HH. (people need to stop pinning hopes on Ryan as a KPF… he will be a ruckman and a handy forward option .. he’s not going to be a semi-permanent KPF).

So if we do get HH I’ll trust the club in knowing our hands were largely tied with options and he was the best option at our disposal - the fact he costs no draft picks of course softens the downside.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Noidnadroj]

Also, Van Rooyen is a West Australian. We have a very good track record of western australian recruiting over the years. Rance, McIntosh, Bolton, Pickett, Baker, Broad etc.

If our recruiter from there didn't rate JVR enough to fight for us to take him, I'd be inclined to back it.

It’s too early to make rock solid calls on any draftees. Remember the McDonald pick after Philips looked like an absolute howler. Largely because Phillips was constantly injured / sick.

Now McDonald is injured and Phillips has been showing some great signs in the last few weeks to justify his selection.

So this isn’t decided one way or the other yet (FWIW I’d be taking McDonald over Phillips), but it shows you have to give draftees an opportunity to play a decent amount of games before any pick can be classified as a ‘win’ or a ‘loss’.

So for people to classify getting Brown over JVR as a ‘loss’ before Brown has even played a game is just crazy.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Genuine question, but what about him makes you think that? Is it because you don’t rate his forward ability compared to the salary he’d command?

From what I have seen, he’s a pretty good mark of the ball and would be worth it.

HH is a very poor forward, his best position is in the backs.

Why should Richmond pay for another defender.

 

[RockJobster0312]

I’m against HH as I don’t think he’s high quality enough to justify the price tag and turning 28yo in 2024 is a bit old to be bringing someone in who is not elite (I was in favour of all other trades you mentioned).

However, I will qualify this by saying if we have genuinely zero other ‘irons in the fire’ for any other KPF in the next 2-seasons, and we are not confident in any of Bradtke, Bauer or Biggy being a viable option long-term, I’d be OK with getting HH. (people need to stop pinning hopes on Ryan as a KPF… he will be a ruckman and a handy forward option .. he’s not going to be a semi-permanent KPF).

So if we do get HH I’ll trust the club in knowing our hands were largely tied with options and he was the best option at our disposal - the fact he costs no draft picks of course softens the downside.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I fall into a similar category to yourself.

I’m not a huge fan of HH at the price being touted (although I see the benefits of not having to give up draft capital), but it’s not to say that there would be no merits in getting him.

It’s a very American spots way of looking at it, but if you think Ryan and Bauer/ Bradtke are your guys but they need time to continue to develop and an environment where the pressure may not be as hot early on, I can see the merit of HH as a forward as almost a bridging player between Tom Lynch and the next generation of RFC KPF’s.

It could also be enough time to see the development of some of the younger players, and stockpile trade assets to make a play at a bigger name KPF in a few more years (as a Lynch replacement).

All comes down to cost at the end of the day.

 

[Lacustrus]

I would've got 2m Peter for a fourth round pick end of 2020 and selected Jacob Van Nistleroy over Tom Brown. Our KPF would be bulging with talent. Lynch, Riewoldt and 2m Peter would all be getting regular games off and playing 80% game time with Pete pinch hitting in the ruck. Soldo, Graham would've been cashed in when valuable and Ralph Smith would've been bundled with something for Hopper to have retained the 1st rounder. Club royally fu@ked our KPF stocks.

I hardly watch opposition games let alone the lower levels anymore. The club's reluctance to play any of Biggie, Bauer or Bradtke helping Jack tells me they're delusionally fantasizing about Jack and the 5 dwarves so I'm interested to see their plan. Don't have any real ideas myself. But my old 2m Peter and Van Rooyen were golden ideas.

You are amazingly brilliant!

 

[Bojangles17]

Since we’re going with a new coach, I also think we need to consider a new lead recruiter as well. Let’s just freshen up the drafting and trade/free agency perspective for the next era

We got a list manager that compiled a list that won three flags , he’s done it once and can do it again . Blair is one bloke I wanna keep

 

[Growapair]

It’s too early to make rock solid calls on any draftees. Remember the McDonald pick after Philips looked like an absolute howler. Largely because Phillips was constantly injured / sick.

Now McDonald is injured and Phillips has been showing some great signs in the last few weeks to justify his selection.

So this isn’t decided one way or the other yet (FWIW I’d be taking McDonald over Phillips), but it shows you have to give draftees an opportunity to play a decent amount of games before any pick can be classified as a ‘win’ or a ‘loss’.

So for people to classify getting Brown over JVR as a ‘loss’ before Brown has even played a game is just crazy.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

You have to agree it doesn't look good at this stage. Van Rooyen tearing it up in the AFL with at least a goal every game, a rising star nomination not to mention tearing us apart in the last quarter to win the game

... and Brown?

 

[Noidnadroj]

You have to agree it doesn't look good at this stage. Van Rooyen tearing it up in the AFL with at least a goal every game, a rising star nomination not to mention tearing us apart in the last quarter to win the game

... and Brown?

Of course. If we re-did the draft I’d absolutely take JVR over Brown right now. But 10 other clubs would take JVR over their selection also in that draft also. If everyone could draft in hindsight it’d be pretty easy so there’s no point losing sleep over what ‘could’ve been’ … every other club could’ve selected Bolton and Balta as well, but they didn’t …

But my point is how unfair it is to be upset about getting Brown when he hasn’t even played a game. Will Phillips was pick 3 and he played about 18 very average games including as sub in his first season. Then he didn’t play a single game in 2022 due to injury/illness. Then he played 5 pretty average games to start this year and got dropped…

But guess what … in his last 2 x games … just game 23 and 24 of his career, he’s had his first ever games of 20+ disposals … and he had 29 and 27! He’s had 13 clearances and 11 tackles the last 2 games. So it has taken until his third season and his 23-24th games to show he’s probably going to be a really good player.

Even Shai Bolton … did you know he was the 2016 draft? He played 9 games total across 2017-18 and kicked 4 goals - he played loads of VFL in his first 2 seasons. He really didn’t show much at AFL level until R8 of 2019, his 13th game when he kicked 4 goals.

He’s now one of the best players in the comp and would go top-3 his draft year of re-done.

So I’m not going to pass any real judgement until Brown has racked up 20+ games.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Bojangles17]

Of course. If we re-did the draft I’d absolutely take JVR over Brown right now. But 10 other clubs would take JVR over their selection also in that draft also. If everyone could draft in hindsight it’d be pretty easy so there’s no point losing sleep over what ‘could’ve been’ … every other club could’ve selected Bolton and Balta as well, but they didn’t …

But my point is how unfair it is to be upset about getting Brown when he hasn’t even played a game. Will Phillips was pick 3 and he played about 18 very average games including as sub in his first season. Then he didn’t play a single game in 2022 due to injury/illness. Then he played 5 pretty average games to start this year and got dropped…

But guess what … in his last 2 x games … just game 23 and 24 of his career, he’s had his first ever games of 20+ disposals … and he had 29 and 27! He’s had 13 clearances and 11 tackles the last 2 games. So it has taken until his third season and his 23-24th games to show he’s probably going to be a really good player.

Even Shai Bolton … did you know he was the 2016 draft? He played 9 games total across 2017-18 and kicked 4 goals - he played loads of VFL in his first 2 seasons. He really didn’t show much at AFL level until R8 of 2019, his 13th game when he kicked 4 goals.

He’s now one of the best players in the comp and would go top-3 his draft year of re-done.

So I’m not going to pass any real judgement until Brown has racked up 20+ games.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Bolton baker and short took a couple a seasons to establish themselves , in and out , pretty good players these three

 

[Growapair]

Of course. If we re-did the draft I’d absolutely take JVR over Brown right now. But 10 other clubs would take JVR over their selection also in that draft also. If everyone could draft in hindsight it’d be pretty easy so there’s no point losing sleep over what ‘could’ve been’ … every other club could’ve selected Bolton and Balta as well, but they didn’t …

But my point is how unfair it is to be upset about getting Brown when he hasn’t even played a game. Will Phillips was pick 3 and he played about 18 very average games including as sub in his first season. Then he didn’t play a single game in 2022 due to injury/illness. Then he played 5 pretty average games to start this year and got dropped…

But guess what … in his last 2 x games … just game 23 and 24 of his career, he’s had his first ever games of 20+ disposals … and he had 29 and 27! He’s had 13 clearances and 11 tackles the last 2 games. So it has taken until his third season and his 23-24th games to show he’s probably going to be a really good player.

Even Shai Bolton … did you know he was the 2016 draft? He played 9 games total across 2017-18 and kicked 4 goals - he played loads of VFL in his first 2 seasons. He really didn’t show much at AFL level until R8 of 2019, his 13th game when he kicked 4 goals.

He’s now one of the best players in the comp and would go top-3 his draft year of re-done.

So I’m not going to pass any real judgement until Brown has racked up 20+ games.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Yep, that's pretty much all the stuff you wrote in your original post, right?

Do you want me to repeat myself too?

Just in case ... The optics look bad right now mate.

Van Rooyen raises roof with speccy and double

Melbourne young gun Jacob van Rooyen rocks the 'G with two consecutive marks and goals

www.afl.com.au

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

I don't believe HH is a worthwhile investment.

LOL Investment ?

Yes i agree he wont appreciate in value and resale is shocking

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Only will cost us cap space, I don't understand how it's not worthwhile. He plugs a hole, fills a need so we can plan for life after Lynch.

HH is not a forward, GWS play him in defence because that is his BEST position.

Richmond do not need another high priced defender and the cap space could be put to better use.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

LOL Investment ?

Yes i agree he wont appreciate in value and resale is shocking

HH is a defender and Richmond would be better off investing cap space and resources elsewhere hence not a good investment.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

HH is a defender and Richmond would be better off investing cap space and resources elsewhere hence not a good investment.

Thats your opinion and only because he has not had the opportunity to become a #1 or #2 defender due to GWS needs elswhere
Cameron , Finlayson , Hogan , Riccardi and now Cadman

HH is the only one of the above players with a good understanding of how to actually play defence and has even been played in the Ruck
He has always been the player thats been moved to plug their holes

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Only will cost us cap space, I don't understand how it's not worthwhile. He plugs a hole, fills a need so we can plan for life after Lynch.

Sorry but he's no Lynch.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

How about this effort to win the game?

Outrageous Himmelberg hanger and winner rocks stadium

GWS forward Harry Himmelberg lights up Norwood Oval with this spectacular grab and finish deep into the final term

www.afl.com.au

This should be in front of the Tiger Army at the MCG

Loved it. Noted also it has since been known as the Himmelberg Hanger. Nice.

 

[tropicaltiger]

Sam McClure is an oxygen thief and worse than Karen Cornes.

View attachment airhead mclue.mp4

 

[tigerfan1961]

You have to agree it doesn't look good at this stage. Van Rooyen tearing it up in the AFL with at least a goal every game, a rising star nomination not to mention tearing us apart in the last quarter to win the game

... and Brown?

Tearing it up????

 

[lvt06]

You ever read a thread and think, I have found another person for my block list?

JVR hasn't torn a game up, JVR didn't tear us apart. JVR kicked two goals after we made a move that backfired, when Balta got moved the the ruck. All this focus on one pick is mental. Cleve Hughes kicked 6 against Port and looked great in a few games, most people wouldn't even remember his name.

Brown is one season in and shown some serious glimses of whats to come. Have some faith in the club that delivered 3 flags in 5 years. Some faith in the club that picked, Grimes, Lambert, Short, Pickett, Graham, Soldo all with late picks, have some faith in the club that picked Bolton at 29 when he would go no.1 if that draft got re-done.

The club knows what it is doing, it has shown that time and time again. JVR might be the greatest key forward to ever play the game, but 17 other clubs didn't pick him up.