List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 6

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rioli2Rioli said:
Thats all part of the Free Agency makeup

You pay extra dollars
The players get ability to earn more and select where they go

If you have to trade then you give up other assets (trade picks) which limits movement
In HH situation Trade = $550k x 5
Free Agency = $700k x 3
Click to expand...
You reckon he'll move interstate if we only offet 3yrs?
 
Last edited:
_RT_ said:
I'd say losing Taranto Hopper Bruhn & Hill last year, plus they may well have Ward retire and Preuss could be moved on having only play 10 games in 3 seasons since joining the Giants, would have helped ease their cap pressure.

If we're going to sign HH, it has to be on a deal that best suits us and not something that looks after the Giants because we want to get him for "free". $800k x 3 isn't free, IMO it handcuffs us a little in terms of moves that we could make as our cap is likely to be a lot tighter than it could otherwise be if we overpay for HH.
Click to expand...
Yeh I reckon they're pretty much on top of it, maybe the Haynes (800k+) and Whitfield (1mil+) are the only contracts that may be of concern, but whitfield is finding form and haynes expires in 2024
 
_RT_ said:
For all this talk about HH being free and not having to trade for him.

Let me ask you all this.

What happens if we offer HH a deal of 3 x $800k and GWS decide to match?

Now before you all jump on and say that won't happen, so it's not worth discussing, let me remind you that GWS matched for Cameron when Geelong put forward a deal that everyone thought they wouldn't match because the deal was too big for them to match and they were going to get a first round pick for him & it would help free up cap space for them moving forward.

However GWS were more than happy to match for force Geelong to trade, so there is a good reason to believe that GWS couldn't look at our offer and think that matching and forcing a trade could net them a deal that better suits their list build strategy.

As it stands they already have 2 R1 picks this year as we know, with our pick and their own. They could very well decide that having another 2 x R1 picks in 2024 could be more valuable to them than having 3 picks in this years draft. They can then add 2 of the best available kids this year and then be in the market in 2024 for someone to bring in via trade in 2024 or they could then add another 1-2 highly rated kids in 2024 as they take the gamble that we have another year like this year and they end up with another top 10 pick anyway, all they've done is spread their picks across 2 years instead of having to take 3 this year.

With that in mind, would you HH fans still:

Want Richmond to follow through and complete the trade? Thus trading away yet another first round pick.

Or

Would you want them to look foolish and back away from the deal and hurt their reputation as a club that gets deals done once they commit to them?
Click to expand...
* We wont offer him $800k a year and he wont be worth that , If Richmond were interested it would be $700k x 3/4 years
or $700k x 3 with a further 2 year extension agreed upon for later.

  • GWS are not matching that type of offer with a top 5 compo pick that comes back
  • If GWS did not want 3 picks in this years draft then they would just trade it out for the following year with more coming back


* What i believe will happen if HH leaves via free agency and GWS get a top 5 pick
They will trade 2 top 5 picks this year plus steak knives to get pick #1 for the super star kid in the draft.


Basically the argument here on the Richmond board is that we all want him at Richmond but some here want him for $550k-$600k and not for $700k
The salary cap will be going up and the average will be close to $500k in 2 years time
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Ctl said:
Yeh I reckon they're pretty much on top of it, maybe the Haynes (800k+) and Whitfield (1mil+) are the only contracts that may be of concern, but whitfield is finding form and haynes expires in 2024
Click to expand...
Green/e, Cadman, Callahan, there’s a few there that will command big $$ in the near future
 
Rioli2Rioli said:
* We wont offer him $800k a year and he wont be worth that , If Richmond were interested it would be $700k x 3/4 years
or $700k x 3 with a further 2 year extension agreed upon for later.

  • GWS are not matching that type of offer with a top 5 compo pick that comes back
  • If GWS did not want 3 picks in this years draft then they would just trade it out for the following year with more coming back


* What i believe will happen if HH leaves via free agency and GWS get a top 5 pick
They will trade 2 top 5 picks this year plus steak knives to get pick #1 for the super star kid in the draft.


Basically the argument here on the Richmond board is that we all want him at Richmond but some here want him for $550k-$600k and not for $700k
The salary cap will be going up and the average will be close to $500k in 2 years time
Click to expand...
McStay was a 5 year $600k per year deal and only got Brisbane pick 35 as compensation and you think that a 3-4 year $700k per year deal is going to garner GWS a band 1 compo deal. At that amount they'd be looking at a end of R1 deal at best and for that the Giants would be better off matching and trying to squeeze our 2024 R1 out of us given we'd be left with little negotiating power at all.
 
_RT_ said:
I'd say losing Taranto Hopper Bruhn & Hill last year, plus they may well have Ward retire and Preuss could be moved on having only play 10 games in 3 seasons since joining the Giants, would have helped ease their cap pressure.

If we're going to sign HH, it has to be on a deal that best suits us and not something that looks after the Giants because we want to get him for "free". $800k x 3 isn't free, IMO it handcuffs us a little in terms of moves that we could make as our cap is likely to be a lot tighter than it could otherwise be if we overpay for HH.
Click to expand...
Have some faith in Blair RT. He’s a bloody good operator who gets things done and he won’t overpay and destroy our cap. Cerra was a target years back but we backed off once Carltoon went all in with a crazy offer. Last year, the whole media world said Hopper was off to the Scats but he got it done, despite the media saying it couldn’t happen.
He is great at what he does and I know for certain he plans years in advance.
 
_RT_ said:
McStay was a 5 year $600k per year deal and only got Brisbane pick 35 as compensation and you think that a 3-4 year $700k per year deal is going to garner GWS a band 1 compo deal. At that amount they'd be looking at a end of R1 deal at best and for that the Giants would be better off matching and trying to squeeze our 2024 R1 out of us given we'd be left with little negotiating power at all.
Click to expand...
That doesn't make much sense on a couple of levels.

Firstly, if we're interested in Himmelberg its because he's a free agent. Yes, so were Danger and Cameron, but they were elite and truly worth 1st round trades. HH is at least one tier down.

Secondly, Richmond are not allowed to trade our 2024 1st round.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

domin8 said:
Green/e, Cadman, Callahan, there’s a few there that will command big $$ in the near future
Click to expand...
Green and Callaghan both just re-signed this year, and Greene is already on an existing long term deal. Cadman hasn’t set the world on fire yet, wouldn’t expect him to demand absurd money yet
 
_RT_ said:
McStay was a 5 year $600k per year deal and only got Brisbane pick 35 as compensation and you think that a 3-4 year $700k per year deal is going to garner GWS a band 1 compo deal. At that amount they'd be looking at a end of R1 deal at best and for that the Giants would be better off matching and trying to squeeze our 2024 R1 out of us given we'd be left with little negotiating power at all.
Click to expand...
Why are you comparing it to McStay ?
Daniher is the exact example ?

McStay's compo was exactly the same as what we got for Ellis
 
Lsta062 said:
Don’t have an issue with Blair as an individual, but I am kinda getting over the unit as a whole since 2018. I’ve noticed in the past few years that they’re reactive more than proactive.

  • Our backline lost Rance in 2019 and Astbury began his decline in the 2020 season. Took them until after Astbury left to address it (Tyler Young, Tarrant).
  • Our midfield was starting to decline in 2020 and they only really addressed it last year besides taking Sonsie in 2021. Way too late.
  • Chol and CCJ departed and Riewoldt’s decline started a couple of seasons ago. They haven’t really started to address it except for taking Bauer and Bradtke in the MSD and SSP. That’s a bad strategy because most good KPFs come in the first round of the draft or are traded in, let alone the MSD and SSP.

Even in 2017 and 2018, we basically went into the season with 1 KPF. Griffiths and Vickery already left before 2017, so it took them until after the 2018 offseason (Lynch) to do something about it. In my view, the list managers/recruiters were saved by two things:
1. Their fantastic recruiting/drafting in 2016-2017, and
2. A panel of great coaches that devised a gamestyle that shocked the competition. Otherwise, going in with one KPF in our best 22 is a bad strategy.

Yes, they put a list together that won 3 Premierships, but we also had a coach that won us 3 Premierships, and a captain that won us 3 Premierships, and a top range KPF that won us 3 Premierships. Yet, we’ve said goodbye to that coach and will likely have those two players leave by the year’s end as well.

I just don’t have confidence that our list managers and recruiters will get us to a Premiership again soon. It just looks like they’re chasing tail to me now.

Having said that, I haven’t given up completely on them because I really want to see what happens with the 2021 and 2022 draftees (as well as the upcoming 2023 draft). If they nail these picks, then they’ll have my confidence back.
Click to expand...
What about gibcus
I think your missing perspective
we haven’t had the early picks until last 12m and then we have used them to address a hole in the midfield , earlier on we used higher selections which didn’t come off
its a balancing act when you got a winning side with limited openings , players just won’t hang around , we tabled a contract to ccj but why would he stay with uncertainty over a game , read same for Higgins and butler . Coll will experience a bit of this in off season as they have several qty players not getting a game , they won’t hang around
so moral of the story , don’t carp on the list manager
 
_RT_ said:
I'd say losing Taranto Hopper Bruhn & Hill last year, plus they may well have Ward retire and Preuss could be moved on having only play 10 games in 3 seasons since joining the Giants, would have helped ease their cap pressure.

If we're going to sign HH, it has to be on a deal that best suits us and not something that looks after the Giants because we want to get him for "free". $800k x 3 isn't free, IMO it handcuffs us a little in terms of moves that we could make as our cap is likely to be a lot tighter than it could otherwise be if we overpay for HH.
Click to expand...
Giants won’t be matching , they’re tpp is tight and with early selections they got bigger fish to fry than potentially hang onto a player that don’t want to be there
 
Noidnadroj said:
I think you’re missing the overall point. It doesn’t matter if Brown never plays a game. The point is we thought Brown was a better option so we drafted him.

Why lose sleep over bypassing a player who might have been a better option? It’s mostly a lottery and everyone is a drafting genius in hindsight.

You win some (Bolton, Balta, D Rioli, Baker, Short, Broad, Ryan, Picket, Graham) and you lose some.

Our 3 flags and on-going competitiveness post dynasty shows our list management team has won a hell of a lot more than they’ve lost.

If we stuffed up in bypassing JVR who cares? Most other clubs bypassed his as well so he clearly wasn’t a lock to be a good player.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
I still think Bauer has similar skill set if we’d give him a ruddy game , better kick too
 
tiger_tough said:
I reckon it was a legitimate chance last year, I don't think he made it up.
Click to expand...
I think he did , he fly’s a kite often , bit like nuffs on here suggesting we’d trade short or rioli , NFI . Clubs don’t trade out triple norm smith club greats 10 games short of 300 game milestone , it simply has never been done before
 
tigerfan1961 said:
Have some faith in Blair RT. He’s a bloody good operator who gets things done and he won’t overpay and destroy our cap. Cerra was a target years back but we backed off once Carltoon went all in with a crazy offer. Last year, the whole media world said Hopper was off to the Scats but he got it done, despite the media saying it couldn’t happen.
He is great at what he does and I know for certain he plans years in advance.
Click to expand...
Well aware of all of that and I back Blair to get done whatever he decides is best for the team.

My post was more aimed at those who want HH at the club seemingly regardless of the cost cap wise.

Us offering a deal that we're comfortable with paying may well mean that GWS match if they're only going to get a band 3 or 4 compo pick, like we got for Ellis leaving. If that is what happens and we suddenly have to trade for HH, are those who want him still going to support the move.
 
Rioli2Rioli said:
Why are you comparing it to McStay ?
Daniher is the exact example ?

McStay's compo was exactly the same as what we got for Ellis
Click to expand...
Daniher joined Brisbane on a 3 year $2.5mil deal, which was done 3 years ago, the cap has gone up since then so a deal of 3 years for $700k per year does carry the same weight, hence the comparison to McStay
 
Lsta062 said:
Don’t have an issue with Blair as an individual, but I am kinda getting over the unit as a whole since 2018. I’ve noticed in the past few years that they’re reactive more than proactive.

  • Our backline lost Rance in 2019 and Astbury began his decline in the 2020 season. Took them until after Astbury left to address it (Tyler Young, Tarrant).
  • Our midfield was starting to decline in 2020 and they only really addressed it last year besides taking Sonsie in 2021. Way too late.
  • Chol and CCJ departed and Riewoldt’s decline started a couple of seasons ago. They haven’t really started to address it except for taking Bauer and Bradtke in the MSD and SSP. That’s a bad strategy because most good KPFs come in the first round of the draft or are traded in, let alone the MSD and SSP.

Even in 2017 and 2018, we basically went into the season with 1 KPF. Griffiths and Vickery already left before 2017, so it took them until after the 2018 offseason (Lynch) to do something about it. In my view, the list managers/recruiters were saved by two things:
1. Their fantastic recruiting/drafting in 2016-2017, and
2. A panel of great coaches that devised a gamestyle that shocked the competition. Otherwise, going in with one KPF in our best 22 is a bad strategy.

Yes, they put a list together that won 3 Premierships, but we also had a coach that won us 3 Premierships, and a captain that won us 3 Premierships, and a top range KPF that won us 3 Premierships. Yet, we’ve said goodbye to that coach and will likely have those two players leave by the year’s end as well.

I just don’t have confidence that our list managers and recruiters will get us to a Premiership again soon. It just looks like they’re chasing tail to me now.

Having said that, I haven’t given up completely on them because I really want to see what happens with the 2021 and 2022 draftees (as well as the upcoming 2023 draft). If they nail these picks, then they’ll have my confidence back.
Click to expand...
The way RFC let players leave and didn't match offers like Butler, Ellis, Conca, Chol and CJ indicates we have limits. We don't seem to get in chases for players that will mean an overspend.

We went for Lynch and he got here and we retained Dusty. So, we aren't scared of spending when required.

I agree that the recruiters are always perfect. Losing Astbury Chol & CJ bringing in Tarrant, Gibcus, Ryan, Bauer, Young. Maybe a quality KPF was a need in 2021

But if they always draft "best available" then they have to be prepared to trade.

Injury has put the spotlight on KPF and I think we bring in a FA that the club can afford or suits some plan. Now we use 2 KPF and a resting ruck. Ryan has been good.

Chol is out of favour, get him back?

Lynch retiring in a couple of years. Is another big position to replace. Someone on the list. Ryan is about it. Or another FA.

Dusty money next year basically. New coach coming might want a new look forward line.
 
Last edited:
GREATER Western Sydney is prepared to offer its star free agent Harry Himmelberg a five-year deal to retain his signature, with talks over his future expected to ramp up in the coming weeks.

Himmelberg has parked contract discussions throughout the start of the season but remains one of the competition's most sought after key-position targets and is expected to attract lucrative offers elsewhere as a restricted free agent.

However, the Giants remain confident of keeping Himmelberg, with the club's head of football Jason McCartney telling AFL.com.au's trade and draft show Gettable this week that it would put forward an offer as long as five years for the versatile 27-year-old.

"Yeah, absolutely," McCartney said.

"The one with Harry is a little bit different because he was drafted as a 19-year-old. He is that year older than the traditional eight-year free agent at 26. But, touch wood, he's been a player that's been really consistent and very versatile and he's also been durable.

"We'd definitely look for a long-term contract with Harry around that and he's known that from the very early stages in our conversations and what his manager would be talking to him about."

The Giants will look to settle Himmelberg in a key defensive post across the second half of the season, having started forward under new coach Adam Kingsley, with McCartney expecting contract talks to heat up around the club's round 15 bye.

"It's been consistent right through," McCartney said.

"I completely understand why Harry was going to take some time. People might think, 'gee that's a bit strange … he's been there eight years'. But for Harry, it's all new too. He's getting a feel and wanted to get a good look at what this coaching structure would look like and our style of play and program.

"We knew right from the very early stages, it was probably going to be something that would ramp up maybe at the midway point of the year around the bye. We're anticipating there will be further discussions over the next couple of weeks."
Click to expand...

For the HH fans out there. GWS talking about a 5 year deal which means a 3 year deal from us will need to be something special for him to knock back long term security of the Giants deal.
 
Bojangles17 said:
Giants won’t be matching , they’re tpp is tight and with early selections they got bigger fish to fry than potentially hang onto a player that don’t want to be there
Click to expand...
Talk this morning that GWS are looking at 5 years for HH. Cap space can't be that tight.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Truetiger
  • Locked
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 7
447 448 449 450 451
Replies
11K
Views
413K
_RT_
_RT_
Truetiger
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8
40 41 42 43 44
Replies
1K
Views
39K
RJK Tiger
R
Miss_Brightside
Analysis Free-kick Ladder
2 3
Replies
50
Views
2K
barracoutta
barracoutta
Groupie_
News Richmond does not count free memberships in their tally like colonwood and carltoon
2
Replies
48
Views
1K
beema limapep
beema limapep
beema limapep
Free kick differential stats 2024 (Richmond 18th after 3 rounds) 😡
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
152
Views
5K
Siberiantiger
Siberiantiger
Groupie_
News Tom Lynch out for 6-12 weeks with hamstring injury
4 5 6 7 8
Replies
184
Views
5K
Tiger_4_Life
Tiger_4_Life
Truetiger
  • Locked
Game Day Pre Season Richmond vs Collingwood 6:40pm
52 53 54 55 56
Replies
1K
Views
27K
tora tora tora
tora tora tora

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top