List Mgmt. 2023 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Key Dates:

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Draft Period, November 20–22

• Round 1 of the National Draft: Monday, November 20, time and venue TBA
• Trade Period (3), picks only: Tuesday, November 21, 5.45pm–6.30pm
• Round 2–end of the National Draft: Tuesday, November 21, 7pm until completion
• Rookie Promotions: Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• Delisted Free Agency Period (3): Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• List Lodgement 3*: Wednesday, November 22, 10am (optional; required for those participating in the PSD)
• Pre-Season Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3pm
• Rookie Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3.20pm
• Final List Lodgement*: Thursday, November 23, 4pm

* List lodgement dates are yet to be made public, so are approximate based on past history and the requirements of the AFL Rules. When lists are lodged, the number of players on the list must not exceed maximum list sizes. At the same time, clubs must provide the AFL with estimates of total player payments in the current and following year, which must prove the club is not and will not exceed the salary cap. (AFL Rules 5.3, 6.1, 6.8, 7.2, 7.9)

 

[Cadsky]

Apparently only 1 year needs to be over 800k to trigger Band 1 compo

So load up next year and then drop it right back down. I'm OK with that

 

[Bandicoot]

one last time

people are acting like we are recruiting buddy from 2016 when its 2023

my belief is that people are acting as if they are recruiting grundy from 2018 when its 2023.

does that make it clear ?

You're treating Grundy as a 35 year old who is past his best. He is 29 and still has 5 years of good football ahead of him.
Collingwood's main reason for passing him off to Melbourne was salary cap related and they felt that Cameron would do a reasonable job as a replacement at half the cost, even if they paid part of his contract. The only use Melbourne have for him is as a replacement if Gawn gets injured. He would be a perfectly good number 1 ruckman at Melbourne if they didn't already have Gawn. That's a lot of salary cap space of theirs to be playing for Casey because he is a ruck and he is not a forward.
Unlike Melbourne, we don't have a ruck unless you think that Ladhams is miraculously going to change from an injury prone, suspension prone @#^#%. Grundy's ability to feed our mids with first use will make us a completely different team. I don't give a rat's arse as to what else he does around the ground.

 

[Cadsky]

You're treating Grundy as a 35 year old who is past his best. He is 29 and still has 5 years of good football ahead of him.
Collingwood's main reason for passing him off to Melbourne was salary cap related and they felt that Cameron would do a reasonable job as a replacement at half the cost, even if they paid part of his contract. The only use Melbourne have for him is as a replacement if Gawn gets injured. He would be a perfectly good number 1 ruckman at Melbourne if they didn't already have Gawn. That's a lot of salary cap space of theirs to be playing for Casey because he is a ruck and he is not a forward.
Unlike Melbourne, we don't have a ruck unless you think that Ladhams is miraculously going to change from an injury prone, suspension prone @#^#%. Grundy's ability to feed our mids with first use will make us a completely different team. I don't give a rat's arse as to what else he does around the ground.

Spot on coot.

 

[SM]

I saw Grundy and since we were taking about him earlier i jumped the bullet and thought that was who we were taking about.

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

That was indeed the joke.

 

[dosser]

I'm not getting my hopes up for getting Grundy, and if we do manage to get him then I'm not going overboard about how he might perform next year. My thinking is that we made a granny with a veteran ruck who played well for that year. He wasn't fast, but he followed up his taps. He wasn't a forward, but kicked goals when he drifted down there most games. That sounds to me like how others are describing Grundy as if those things are weaknesses. All he has to do is be the same or better than RJ was last season and I think it will be enough to get us into the top 4 again.

The only question is the price...

 

[Kiama Chris]

Back 6 of:
Cunningham - McKay - Fox
Lloyd - McCartin - Blakey
With Rampe on the bench

Solid back 7. Florent unlucky. No room for him further forward.

 

[Olian]

Apparently only 1 year needs to be over 800k to trigger Band 1 compo

Not sure that is true as it would allow clubs to easily manipulate. Hence the AFL keeps the formula to determine compensation fairly secretive. Length of contract, age of player all come into consideration (plus where the club sits on the ladder losing the player) are all
factors.

It’s been reported at a high level the followings pay bands will trigger a certain type of pick compensation.

The bands are as follows:

• Top five per cent = first-round pick
• Top 15 per cent = end-of-first-round pick
• Top 30 per cent = second-round pick
• Top 50 per cent = end-of-second-round pick
• Top 70 per cent = third-round pick
• Below that = no pick

 

[the hypnotoad]

I'm not getting my hopes up for getting Grundy, and if we do manage to get him then I'm not going overboard about how he might perform next year. My thinking is that we made a granny with a veteran ruck who played well for that year. He wasn't fast, but he followed up his taps. He wasn't a forward, but kicked goals when he drifted down there most games. That sounds to me like how others are describing Grundy as if those things are weaknesses. All he has to do is be the same or better than RJ was last season and I think it will be enough to get us into the top 4 again.

The only question is the price...

probably the best argued case ...

 

[Kiama Chris]

I have a few questions about our list management About our current players coming out of contract. Thus far we have three retirees in Buddy, Paddy and RJ.

1. Do you think Sam Reid should or will be offered another one year extension? There has been no noise from the Club, perhaps pending how his op went. It seems he was the last player Re-Contracted last year. Would another Club offer a lifeline? Irrespective, the issue should not affect our trading or drafting strategy. Retire/delist
2. Will Sam Wicks be offered a two or three year extension? Imo he certainly deserves one. Beyond JK and Paps we lack small forwards. He strikes me as a priority signing. Re-sign
3. Like Reid, Lewis Melican has an unreliable body. The rumour last year was he was asked to check interest from other Clubs. True or not he is still here on his last contract year. Should he be extended? At best I would offer a Rookie contract. He is a RFA but doubt other Clubs will be interested, unless they are spelled N.O.R.F. Rookie
4. Has WillGould shown enough as a robust clever forward to be offered another year? Do you reckon other Clubs may have an interest? I reckon he has a future, hopefully with us. Re-sign.
5. Hugo Hall-Kahan has not debuted but has shown enough imo to get an extension. He is smart and a great kick. Other Clubs will be interested if we are not. I would keep but fear he is a goner. Your thoughts? Trade/Delist
6. Clarkey has two skills. At lower levels he is a ball magnet but wastes the ball. In the seniors he can do a pure negation role but can be a liability. He has not had a good year but guess he is something of a role model for fitness and getting the most out of himself. Should he be given an extension? Imo no. De-list.
7. Rankin is still young and a great kick when he is not over reaching. He was something of a revelation when thrown forward in the last game of the season. Should he be kept as cover for Cunningham and Lloyd or as a potential cover as a small pressure forward? Re-sign
8. Magor has probably been the best of our newbies in the 2s and played forward and back. He uses the ball well but really needs to put on weight. Re-sign
9. I am a fan of Edwards but realise many are not. He is big and a bit unco and spent the season being educated as a lockdown KPD. In 2022 he sometimes played ruck and a bit forward. We need depth in our talls and the big unit offers this as a development project. I am biased but think we should keep. Your thoughts? Re-sign
10. I feel for Cam Owen. He is big kid who we have tried forward and back with the odd run in the ruck. As a young Giraffe he is yet to grow into his body. In contests I’ve noted he does not have much of a leap. He is a classic project player but reckon we will take May. Thoughts? Delist
11. Sadly Sheather has been injury prone in his time with us and imo has not shown enough to persist with. Delist.
12. FFS. PLEASE GIVE McLEAN A DECENT CONTRACT.

I expect Stephens will be traded.

I’ve probably forgotten someone. I have assumed we keep both Arnold and Buller. This means we need to find two list spots before finding spots for a couple of trades, three main list draftees and a couple of rookie listed players.

I have not cut hard enough. Aside from Stephens there may be other trades sought for currently contracted players.

Like your approach.
Reid depends entirely on his body. If fit re-sign one year.
Wicks re-sign 2 or 3 years high value player.
Melican hope Norf take him. We get late second or third round compo. Too fragile.
Gould is already gone in his mind. Trade if someone is interested or delist.
HHK 2 years has shown enough. Sharp.
Clarke delist which makes me sad .
Rankin delist hasn't shown enough.
Magor re-sign one year still as a rookie.
Edwards re-sign probably one year.
Owen delist hasn't shown enough.
Sheather delist body has failed
Stephens trade.
That's seven plus the three retirees if Reid is OK.
Ten slots in total should be more than enough remembering two are needed for Buller and Arnold.

 

[Jimbo OZ]

One name that I haven't seen discussed here (and possibly for good reason) is Jade Gresham

11

Jade Gresham

Age

26

Ht

177cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

. Talk of him on the Tradies podcast made me think that he could be a relatively cheap (~500k as RFA) option to bring in as an upgrade to Wicks/Clarke. Less defensive but can win a clearance. I don't think his talent has ever been fulfilled at the Saints.

 

[SM]

One name that I haven't seen discussed here (and possibly for good reason) is Jade Gresham. Talk of him on the Tradies podcast made me think that he could be a relatively cheap (~500k as RFA) option to bring in as an upgrade to Wicks/Clarke. Less defensive but can win a clearance. I don't think his talent has ever been fulfilled at the Saints.

I heard his name floated last year in a few discussions, wonder how legitimate it could be.

 

[BloodySwan]

Gould I can see us delisting and picking up as a rookie.

 

[Kiama Chris]

One name that I haven't seen discussed here (and possibly for good reason) is Jade Gresham. Talk of him on the Tradies podcast made me think that he could be a relatively cheap (~500k as RFA) option to bring in as an upgrade to Wicks/Clarke. Less defensive but can win a clearance. I don't think his talent has ever been fulfilled at the Saints.

Not an improvement on Wicks in form. Clarke a separate question. Stirring the water for no real benefit. Konstanty and Magor look to be coming along.

 

[Callipygian]

I have a few questions about our list management About our current players coming out of contract. Thus far we have three retirees in Buddy, Paddy and RJ.

1. Do you think Sam Reid should or will be offered another one year extension? There has been no noise from the Club, perhaps pending how his op went. It seems he was the last player Re-Contracted last year. Would another Club offer a lifeline? Irrespective, the issue should not affect our trading or drafting strategy. Retire/delist
2. Will Sam Wicks be offered a two or three year extension? Imo he certainly deserves one. Beyond JK and Paps we lack small forwards. He strikes me as a priority signing. Re-sign
3. Like Reid, Lewis Melican has an unreliable body. The rumour last year was he was asked to check interest from other Clubs. True or not he is still here on his last contract year. Should he be extended? At best I would offer a Rookie contract. He is a RFA but doubt other Clubs will be interested, unless they are spelled N.O.R.F. Rookie
4. Has WillGould shown enough as a robust clever forward to be offered another year? Do you reckon other Clubs may have an interest? I reckon he has a future, hopefully with us. Re-sign.
5. Hugo Hall-Kahan has not debuted but has shown enough imo to get an extension. He is smart and a great kick. Other Clubs will be interested if we are not. I would keep but fear he is a goner. Your thoughts? Trade/Delist
6. Clarkey has two skills. At lower levels he is a ball magnet but wastes the ball. In the seniors he can do a pure negation role but can be a liability. He has not had a good year but guess he is something of a role model for fitness and getting the most out of himself. Should he be given an extension? Imo no. De-list.
7. Rankin is still young and a great kick when he is not over reaching. He was something of a revelation when thrown forward in the last game of the season. Should he be kept as cover for Cunningham and Lloyd or as a potential cover as a small pressure forward? Re-sign
8. Magor has probably been the best of our newbies in the 2s and played forward and back. He uses the ball well but really needs to put on weight. Re-sign
9. I am a fan of Edwards but realise many are not. He is big and a bit unco and spent the season being educated as a lockdown KPD. In 2022 he sometimes played ruck and a bit forward. We need depth in our talls and the big unit offers this as a development project. I am biased but think we should keep. Your thoughts? Re-sign
10. I feel for Cam Owen. He is big kid who we have tried forward and back with the odd run in the ruck. As a young Giraffe he is yet to grow into his body. In contests I’ve noted he does not have much of a leap. He is a classic project player but reckon we will take May. Thoughts? Delist
11. Sadly Sheather has been injury prone in his time with us and imo has not shown enough to persist with. Delist.
12. FFS. PLEASE GIVE McLEAN A DECENT CONTRACT.

I expect Stephens will be traded.

I’ve probably forgotten someone. I have assumed we keep both Arnold and Buller. This means we need to find two list spots before finding spots for a couple of trades, three main list draftees and a couple of rookie listed players.

I have not cut hard enough. Aside from Stephens there may be other trades sought for currently contracted players.

Good contribution GUH. I appreciate this sort of discussion and they'll be making these decisions in the week following our last game (which could have been next week).

1. All year I have felt Sam Reid should retire at the end of the season. But he hasn't. And, since it seems there are no plans to farewell him this weekend, it's looking to me likely that he goes around again. So long as he's on a low wage, I can live with that. When he's fit and in form he's one of 10 best players.

2. Agree Wicks should get 2-3 year extension.

3. I think we should extend Melican but I think he's more likely to leave to get a regular senior game somewhere else, especially if McKay comes in. Let's draft someone to develop in the 2s. Connor O'Sullivan would be perfect!

4. Will Gould is tricky. He was a de-list before he did so well as a forward. There is a decent footballer in him but can it be realised at AFL level? We are pretty lacking in forward depth and that might be the salvation of Gould. I like Gould playing a mini-Plugger role. He can also get up the ground a bit and take advantage of his booming kick.

5. HHK - has been good. I'd be happy to see him extended but competition for spots is tough. In his favour we don't have any other medium forwards outside the 22.

6. Clarke has been good for us. He is important at VFL level and is good depth and can play a role at AFL level. However, as Sheldrick and Roberts (and hopefully Konstanty) rise, I think we should probably cut Clarke and make room for young talent (e.g. Cleary).

7. Rankin - maybe has done enough to get another year but I'm not sure. He's not a prolific footballer and he hasn't been that damaging with his disposal. I think you are way overselling his 2 last quarter goals when you say he was "something of a revelation". He spent only a quarter of one match forward. He took 2 of his 3 chances well but I don't see him as being good enough at exerting pressure to play the pressure forward role. I see Konstanty as a much better bet for that role. Personally I'm more hopeful that Vickery turns into the Rankin style player but I don't think Vickery has won a lot of fans on this forum (yet). I think I lean towards de-listing.

8. Magor - give him another year as a rookie.

9. Edwards - I'm with you. He comes with question marks but does have the athleticism. I'd rookie him for another year. The local factor counts a little bit in his favour.

10. Owen - delist. Has got some great skills but overall has not shown enough for me to extend him. List spots are too precious.

11. Sheather - I rate him higher than Rankin. He'd be one of the last I'd sign but I'd like to keep him. It might come down to him or HHK and possibly I'd hang on to HHK because we have less depth in that position. Let's say we leave open a rookie spot and see if he can claim it ahead of the competition over pre-season training.

12. McLean - no brainer. Pretty sure we'll get him to sign on the dotted line.

13. Stephens - agree he's pretty likely to be traded. He's behind McInerney and we've already signed Corey Warner with Caleb Mitchell offering additional depth. I hope we can get a pick in the 20s for him. He could yet become a good footballer but if he hasn't accepted our contract by now he's probably going somewhere else to pursue his dream.


So in summation, I'm predicting the departure of Melican, Clarke, Rankin, Owen, Sheather and Stephens in addition to Buddy, Paddy & Hickey. Some of those names might be different e.g. lose Gould, keep Rankin but that seems about right to me.

Buddy and Paddy have already been replaced with Buller and Arnold (so we've lost a lot there). If we trade in two players (a KPD and a ruck) then we'll have another 5 spots to fill. I reckon we fill at least 4 of those at the ND & RD (e.g. Sullivan, Archer Reid, Cleary, May) but maybe leave one spot open to be filled by Sheather or another player (Cabor? Rider? some gun passed over by other clubs a la Magor) over the pre-season.

 

[RainMachine]

You're treating Grundy as a 35 year old who is past his best. He is 29 and still has 5 years of good football ahead of him.
Collingwood's main reason for passing him off to Melbourne was salary cap related and they felt that Cameron would do a reasonable job as a replacement at half the cost, even if they paid part of his contract. The only use Melbourne have for him is as a replacement if Gawn gets injured. He would be a perfectly good number 1 ruckman at Melbourne if they didn't already have Gawn. That's a lot of salary cap space of theirs to be playing for Casey because he is a ruck and he is not a forward.
Unlike Melbourne, we don't have a ruck unless you think that Ladhams is miraculously going to change from an injury prone, suspension prone @#^#%. Grundy's ability to feed our mids with first use will make us a completely different team. I don't give a rat's arse as to what else he does around the ground.

5 years? I say safely 3 years of goods football, with hopefully more. End comes quickly after 30.

 

[killablood]

One thing this board seems to agree on is the need for a KPD.

I'm in agreement. More accurately I think we need an intercepting tall to play the paddy role. Recruiting a lockdown type to free up Tmac to play that role could work?
It has just dawned on me though that I don't want to cut anyone from our current defensive set up. Rampe is gone in a season or two but next year I don't see how it all fits? Who gets cut or plays in a different part of the ground?

Regarding the ruck situation does anyone think Soldo is gettable and or worth pursuing? Was shopped around last off season apparently.

 

[caesar88]

One name that I haven't seen discussed here (and possibly for good reason) is Jade Gresham. Talk of him on the Tradies podcast made me think that he could be a relatively cheap (~500k as RFA) option to bring in as an upgrade to Wicks/Clarke. Less defensive but can win a clearance. I don't think his talent has ever been fulfilled at the Saints.

Nothing concrete yet but a source told me he wants to be a Federation ambassador, his role with Starfleet isn't doing his career any favours.

 

[SM]

Nothing concrete yet but a source told me he wants to be a Federation ambassador, his role with Starfleet isn't doing his career any favours.

Is he hoping for a transfer to the Enterprise?

 

[dosser]

One thing this board seems to agree on is the need for a KPD.

I'm in agreement. More accurately I think we need an intercepting tall to play the paddy role. Recruiting a lockdown type to free up Tmac to play that role could work?
It has just dawned on me though that I don't want to cut anyone from our current defensive set up. Rampe is gone in a season or two but next year I don't see how it all fits? Who gets cut or plays in a different part of the ground?

Regarding the ruck situation does anyone think Soldo is gettable and or worth pursuing? Was shopped around last off season apparently.

I actually think that Francis could be the intercepting tall, but as you say, it would still require us to get a gorilla at FB.

 

[DobmusEdge]

If Grundy comes ladhams should be off

Can’t play the 2 with amartey and McLean

Ladhams isn’t much anyway so no big loss

2 years on his contract left

 

[Ticky009]

Current status of Parish talks with the Bombers:

• Wants a 6 yr deal - Bombers are offering 5
• $50k to $100k difference between them per year. Which equates to about $500k across the contract

Looking at what the player wants - would we be interested? I think he'd be great in our midfield.

 

[Ballarat Bob]

I would like to keep Sheather wasn't too bad when he got a chance in the ones early this year. Still has a lot of promise.
Clarke seemingly is a bit of a favourite of horse so I think he will get another year.
Wicks needs another contract , dumb suspension early this year but has come back strongly.
McLean for sure we would like to sign again , I have a feeling though as with Stephens that the club won't want to overpay for him with Gulden , McDonald etc needing new contracts next year.
Not seen enough of the reserves to make a call on who gets chopped this year and how many. Gould is on the fence if he can play forward might be good cover but four years in the system as a defender and still not getting the call up when we had an injury crisis suggests he's out the door.

 

[Millky95]

Solid back 7. Florent unlucky. No room for him further forward.

Well who do you drop for McKay? Fox? Rampe? I forgot all about Florrent and he is undropable imo

 

[Millky95]

Not sure that is true as it would allow clubs to easily manipulate. Hence the AFL keeps the formula to determine compensation fairly secretive. Length of contract, age of player all come into consideration (plus where the club sits on the ladder losing the player) are all
factors.

It’s been reported at a high level the followings pay bands will trigger a certain type of pick compensation.

The bands are as follows:

• Top five per cent = first-round pick
• Top 15 per cent = end-of-first-round pick
• Top 30 per cent = second-round pick
• Top 50 per cent = end-of-second-round pick
• Top 70 per cent = third-round pick
• Below that = no pick

FA is full of rorts let's be real. That's why the formula is a big secret

 

[Olian]

FA is full of rorts let's be real. That's why the formula is a big secret

Agree, it’s a rort. There shouldn’t be any compensation for a free agent. That’s the whole idea of it being “free” there shouldn’t be a cost to the competition.