Autopsy Round 10 - West Coast v St Kilda

[Ads734]

When’s Taru avilable

 

[phantom13]

In terms of soul crushing losses post rebuild (2013) where does this rank?

v Port 2021
and
v Essendon 2017

probably the only two that stand out this much?
Going down to the dogs 100+ in 2021 got us an open letter but with four years of ****all between then and now I think this might top the lot.

Really hard to feel any hope at all whatsoever considering how many false dawns we've had 2016 onwards.

Good mate pointed out Good Friday to the roos. That was a low point.

I went along to a game I reckon in 2022 mid season against Essendon in a moon boot and they absolutely shredded us to pieces. The game against port in a monsoon that year was one of the most frustrating games I can recall because Ratts refused to play a sweeper off the pack when port did and it cost us a game we had in hand in the second quarter.

This one’s right up there though.

Not that the team should care about how I feel but it’s just embarassing being a saints supporter. It’s better when we’re irrelevant than when we’re doing this shit. Essendon, Carlton and even the Roos should have copped the media spotlight this week, instead it’ll be us.

 

[longlivelenny]

I didn't post last night because I was angry so now that I've calmed down a bit and can think more rationally
**** those guys (the entire St Kilda football club)
I'm sick of waiting

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If he doesn't perform he needs to be dropped - anyone in the middle needs to be constantly be getting 25plus disposals a game - and if they are not getting that try someone new.
Tackling is great but you need to be winning the footy

Steele is around 90th in the AFL for disposals per game ( 20.5) this season, not far behind Jack Viney.
He's ahead of the likes of Jack Graham, and Dylan Shiel.

When he does get it, i think he's one of the better disposals in the team.

Probably shouldn't be captain, but i don't think he's the guy to drop either.
We'd like him to get 30 disposals, but i don't think it helps to drop him for getting 16 and bringing in someone who might get 12. We would also lose the tackles and clearances.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In all fairness, Ryan is probably West Coast's best player this year.

He only had 14 disposals , should be dropped.

 

[phantom13]

Steele is around 90th in the AFL for disposals per game ( 20.5) this season, not far behind Jack Viney.
He's ahead of the likes of Jack Graham, and Dylan Shiel.

When he does get it, i think he's one of the better disposals in the team.

Probably shouldn't be captain, but i don't think he's the guy to drop either.
We'd like him to get 30 disposals, but i don't think it helps to drop him for getting 16 and bringing in someone who might get 12. We would also lose the tackles and clearances.

Dont agree.

The only reason hes not getting dropped is because hes captain. His lack of energy and general demeanour is impacting us as much as his form.

His disposal count is also a weird misnomer, he had 29 against the lions and most would have sworn he had 10 with the lack of impact, he had 22 v the Dockers the following week and i thought it was one of his best games for some time.

 

[pebblesofsand]

2.5 years with a hand selected group to (fawn??) around him and we still have a game plan that relies on under 10's "effort" around the ball.

Actually setting up outside the contest to actually make use of our "running" capacity" seems an after thought.

Game plan seems to be that you handball less two metres to someone else under pressure, rinse and repeat and (hopefully) you eventually clear the scrum.

And when we get matched in that effort plan B seems to be mindlessly bomb it fwd because - well you know Higgo is 2nd in the Coleman so he must be an aerial threat - right???

The difference in clearance skills (particularly handball skills) between us and and say the Doggies is mindboggling.

Might be time to ask the question - has the game moved on from Ross Lyon?

(And don't get me started on selection integrity!!)

 

[BrutThough]

Need a mid
Draft a hbf
Winning Culture is more important than gaining elite mids in the draft

Drafted after impressive midfield performances in the NAB League.
Trained with the midfield group since he arrived.
Played midfield at Sandy.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Hard to believe we're only one game (and percentage) out of the eight. As bad as yesterday was, I reckon most of us would've taken 4-6 at the start of the season with injuries and the shit draw.

 

[SainterinSydney]

When’s Taru avilable

Round 12

 

[D2D3]

You’re all being very harsh.

We did club legend Andrew McQualter a solid here, I’m proud of the sentimentality.

Ross always did love to support his spuds.

 

[phantom13]

2.5 years with a hand selected group to (fawn??) around him and we still have a game plan that relies on under 10's "effort" around the ball.

Actually setting up outside the contest to actually make use of our "running" capacity" seems an after thought.

Game plan seems to be that you handball less two metres to someone else under pressure, rinse and repeat and (hopefully) you eventually clear the scrum.

And when we get matched in that effort plan B seems to be mindlessly bomb it fwd because - well you know Higgo is 2nd in the Coleman so he must be an aerial threat - right???

The difference in clearance skills (particularly handball skills) between us and and say the Doggies is mindboggling.

Might be time to ask the question - has the game moved on from Ross Lyon?

(And don't get me started on selection integrity!!)

Our set up around contest has been an issue for so long its not even funny.

I recall many complaining that was a Richo/Ratts thing, well its still happening.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Lyon said he's got them for the least contact hours of any coach.

And its working a treat , keep going Ross , Yes i really mean keep going

 

[CaptainRisky]

It's not the worst loss I've seen but it is up there considering we lost to a team that hasn't won a game for more than a year.

It wasn't surprising though, West Coast have been getting close to a win and we opened the door with the help of their umpires.

It's a far cry from the good old days of the 90s when we could beat West Coast at home against the odds and against the umpires.




A shame we sacked the guy that coached us in that game at the end of the year even though he took us to finals 2 years in a row.

You know we suck when people are putting up games from back in the day just to try and lift the spirits

 

[phantom13]

Steele is around 90th in the AFL for disposals per game ( 20.5) this season, not far behind Jack Viney.
He's ahead of the likes of Jack Graham, and Dylan Shiel.

When he does get it, i think he's one of the better disposals in the team.

Probably shouldn't be captain, but i don't think he's the guy to drop either.
We'd like him to get 30 disposals, but i don't think it helps to drop him for getting 16 and bringing in someone who might get 12. We would also lose the tackles and clearances.

Just on this...

Hes 94th, some of the illustrious names ahead of him Bailey Williams, Xavier Duursma, Ryley Sanders, Josh Ward, Max Gawn, Mason Redman, Luke Parker, Ryan Maric, Tom Powell and Archie Roberts.

If you filter it by kicks he is 223rd if you look at players around that mark with similarish disposals (19 up) Dylan Shiel, Elijah Tsatas and Travis Boak.

Two blokes who cant kick a footy to save themselves and a bloke who is 36 and will be 37 at seasons end.

He has 1 goal to his name in 8 games.

About the only thing we can give him even a pass mark in is tackling but at this point i reckon thats got more to do with being second to the ball more often as a ball winning mid.

He looks absolutely cooked and totally dispassionate to me.

 

[D2D3]

Oh and Trav came and tried.

Trav has looked good since his first game and I can’t fathom why his destiny is constantly sub then dropped. our selection around the fringes confuses the hell out of me.

 

[CaptainRisky]

2.5 years with a hand selected group to (fawn??) around him and we still have a game plan that relies on under 10's "effort" around the ball.

Actually setting up outside the contest to actually make use of our "running" capacity" seems an after thought.

Game plan seems to be that you handball less two metres to someone else under pressure, rinse and repeat and (hopefully) you eventually clear the scrum.

And when we get matched in that effort plan B seems to be mindlessly bomb it fwd because - well you know Higgo is 2nd in the Coleman so he must be an aerial threat - right???

The difference in clearance skills (particularly handball skills) between us and and say the Doggies is mindboggling.

Might be time to ask the question - has the game moved on from Ross Lyon?

(And don't get me started on selection integrity!!)

100%
We are the only team that needs to play at 120% manic pressure to win a game and every man and his dog knows that's not possible every week and when it drops off you have what we got yesterday , as you said you cant even start to compare us to the dogs and they have some big names missing too but they have a plan , we don't.

People on here bang on about the Fixture- Draw well our selection is in the same boat at times= Bull sh1t

 

[PJays]

Going into 2017 I was extremely bullish about a group of blokes under 24, which included the following players we all rated as future talent: Battle, Phillips, Gresham, Long, Goddard, Lonie, McKenzie, McCartin, Steele, Marshall, Acres, Billings, Sinclair, Dunstan, Membrey, Webster, Longer, Ross, Newnes and Bruce.

Interesting analysis regarding what happened to them.

As broad categories:

Good career with St Kilda, long-term players- Steele, Marshall, Sinclair, Membrey, Webster, Ross.

Left St Kilda mid-career- Battle, Long, Gresham, Bruce, Newnes, Billings, Acres

Fringe players, never consistently made the grade, some joined other clubs- Dunstan, Lonie

Career never got off the ground- Goddard, Phillips

Bad luck, injuries- McCartin, Longer, McKenzie.

The biggest category is those who left St Kilda mid career. That deserves further analysis. Acres I would place in a sub- category called "self-sabotage"- traded but shouldn't have been. Some decided to leave as free agents- Bruce, Battle, Gresham. Why did they leave?

Your broader point is best made with respect to Gresham and Billings. Both 1st rd picks, both had high finishes in the B&F early in their careers (both had multiple seasons in the 4-6 range). Neither's career turned out the way we'd like, following the promising starts.

 

[botts]

I was a fan of Gus but never thought he would make it. Crazy to pick him of Trav. Also leaving jones out. Like we didn’t want to win

 

[bakes10]

Collard not up to it at the moment. 0 tackles and I reckon even if he did get a tackle it wouldn’t stick anyway. The rare shot at goal he gets, he fluffed it OOF. Ross has given him an extended run but now it’s back over to him, have an extended run in the VFL, show us if you want to have a long career in the AFL.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Just on this...

Hes 94th, some of the illustrious names ahead of him Bailey Williams, Xavier Duursma, Ryley Sanders, Josh Ward, Max Gawn, Mason Redman, Luke Parker, Ryan Maric, Tom Powell and Archie Roberts.

If you filter it by kicks he is 223rd if you look at players around that mark with similarish disposals (19 up) Dylan Shiel, Elijah Tsatas and Travis Boak.

Two blokes who cant kick a footy to save themselves and a bloke who is 36 and will be 37 at seasons end.

He has 1 goal to his name in 8 games.

About the only thing we can give him even a pass mark in is tackling but at this point i reckon thats got more to do with being second to the ball more often as a ball winning mid.

He looks absolutely cooked and totally dispassionate to me.

I think he has looked like that for years , a while back i went and watched his years highlights from 2021 when he was kicking goals and celebrating like Warrick Capper , now he kicks a goal and its like someone stole his milk from the playground

 

[CaptainRisky]

I was a fan of Gus but never thought he would make it. Crazy to pick him of Trav. Also leaving jones out. Like we didn’t want to win

And old mate Collard is getting gifted , are we so fecking weak and scared he will want to leave if we play him at Sandy because it sure looks like that to me , and please no one say he brings pressure because he cant tackle

 

[bergholt]

Move the magnets, do whatever, I thought we were in a wide open race in a pack of teams between 5th and 14th but I reckon we might actually be a bottom 4 side this year.

There are 9 bad teams at the moment: West Coast, North, Richmond; then Port, Melbourne, Sydney, Carlton, Essendon, Saints. You'd expect a few in the second group to elevate out of it, probably not us. Leaves us bottom 6 ish.

Which to be fair is exactly what most of us thought at the start of the season. No-one was expecting finals this year, especially after the Adelaide loss. Then we beat Geelong and won two more in a row and dared to dream. Since then our draw has been tough, injuries haven't been kind, we're back at our level.

Probably need the supporter base to harden up a bit. Unless you think 2025 Jack Steele, Brad Hill, Zak Jones are the core of a finals-quality midfield, none of us should really be surprised that we're pumping games into kids and having very variable performances.

I agree it's not fun but we are where we are.

 

[bergholt]

I think he has looked like that for years , a while back i went and watched his years highlights from 2021 when he was kicking goals and celebrating like Warrick Capper , now he kicks a goal and its like someone stole his milk from the playground

Became co-captain in 2021 and solo captain in 2022. Clear as day the role hasn't agreed with him at all.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Became co-captain in 2021 and solo captain in 2022. Clear as day the role hasn't agreed with him at all.

Ah , now it makes sense , was a totally different unit back then , happy , high fives , stirring the crowd up ect , Now Nothing