Prediction Do you think we make finals?

[AFC979810]

Feel like the ceiling of the 2025 midfield is higher, but the floor of the 2017 midfield was better

Agree with this. 2017 midfield was very workmanlike.

I think the biggest advantage that the 2017 side had was the rebounding HBF in Smith & Laird and thats something the 2025 side lacks.

The biggest advantage this 2025 side has is that we have more 'game winners' than that 2017 side. In 2017 - Betts and Walker would be the two the opposition coaches would be most afraid of.

The 2025 side - we have Dawson, Rankine, Rachele and TT.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Agree with this. 2017 midfield was very workmanlike.

I think the biggest advantage that the 2017 side had was the rebounding HBF in Smith & Laird and thats something the 2025 side lacks.

The biggest advantage this 2025 side has is that we have more 'game winners' than that 2017 side. In 2017 - Betts and Walker would be the two the opposition coaches would be most afraid of.

The 2025 side - we have Dawson, Rankine, Rachele and TT.

the main difference between the sides I feel is experience.....and coaching.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Agree with this. 2017 midfield was very workmanlike.

I think the biggest advantage that the 2017 side had was the rebounding HBF in Smith & Laird and thats something the 2025 side lacks.

The biggest advantage this 2025 side has is that we have more 'game winners' than that 2017 side. In 2017 - Betts and Walker would be the two the opposition coaches would be most afraid of.

The 2025 side - we have Dawson, Rankine, Rachele and TT.

Yeah we probably missed Smith more than we realised in the GF (and Gov too, given how much of a non-factor Otten was)

Ultimately, the difference between 2016/17 and 2025 is coaching and talent, respectively - the problem with relying on talent is that it’s usually more volatile, without top level coaching

 

[AFC979810]

the main difference between the sides I feel is experience....

Friday Night - Average Age 26 years 3 months, average games 109.9

2017 Grand Final - Average Age 25 years 11 months, average games 108.7

Finals experience would be the difference. That was the 3rd consecutive finals campaign for that group - with a bunch of them also having a taste in the 2012 finals series.

 

[AFC979810]

Yeah we probably missed Smith more than we realised in the GF (and Gov too, given how much of a non-factor Otten was)

Ultimately, the difference between 2016/17 and 2025 is coaching and talent, respectively - the problem with relying on talent is that it’s usually more volatile

Was Pyke that much better than Nicksy is now?

 

[Danger in Texas]

Was Pyke that much better than Nicksy is now?

Probably - he got more out of an overall less talented side, IMO

Let’s not forget the 2016 season too, where I think we were just as good as in 2017 (except for a top 3 choke in our history against the Eagles in the last round)

 

[adelaidecrows]

Friday Night - Average Age 26 years 3 months, average games 109.9

2017 Grand Final - Average Age 25 years 11 months, average games 108.7

Finals experience would be the difference. That was the 3rd consecutive finals campaign for that group - with a bunch of them also having a taste in the 2012 finals series.

yeah but Walker, Smith and Laird skew the averages.

 

[AFC979810]

yeah but Walker, Smith and Laird skew the averages.

Experienced players like Walker and Laird doesn't skew the data. It is the data.

0-49 games: 2017 - 3, 2025 -4
50 - 99 games: 2017 - 8, 2025 - 10
100 - 149 games: 2017 -5, 2025 - 5
150+ games: 2017 - 6, 2025 4

Not much difference at all.

 

[Go the Guts]

Was Pyke that much better than Nicksy is now?

Oh undoubtedly yes.

What these posts seem to show is a distinct inability to remember how white hot dominant we were as a side in 2017.

We went into the GF as nearly unbackable favourites. Until Clarkson joined up with Hardwicke as a second coach, and the VFL’s ‘it’s Richmond’s time’ train kicked into action and ensured we were never going to win it.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Was Pyke that much better than Nicksy is now?

Absolutely!

No contest in their respective strategic minds.

However, Nicks has Davis.

 

[MRB37]

Was Pyke that much better than Nicksy is now?

I think they're completely different coaches

Pyke is a very good tactician who seemed to have absolutely piss poor man management skills. Nicks is a very good man manager who seems to have absolutely piss poor tactical skills.

When we were winning Pykes people skills were able to be overlooked in the name of success. Once that started going downhill it became a bigger and bigger issue until his position became untenable.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I think they're completely different coaches

Pyke is a very good tactician who seemed to have absolutely piss poor man management skills. Nicks is a very good man manager who seems to have absolutely piss poor tactical skills.

When we were winning Pykes people skills were able to be overlooked in the name of success. Once that started going downhill it became a bigger and bigger issue until his position became untenable.

Which is why coaching needs to be about the collective.

We have had too many similar types with little strategy until we got Davis.

Rahilly was a big loss.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Which is why coaching needs to be about the collective.

We have had too many similar types with little strategy until we got Davis.

Rahilly was a big loss.

was he though. Nicks was always poor.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

was he though. Nicks was always poor.

Yes, Rahilly is a good assistant.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Yes, Rahilly is a good assistant.

that maybe, but he really wouldnt have made Nicks a better coach.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

that maybe, but he really wouldnt have made Nicks a better coach.

Results suggest otherwise!

Went from one of the best to worst forward lines once he left.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Results suggest otherwise!

really, we are above Geelong on the ladder and he has a better win loss % then when at any time he was at the club. Sure he was a good assistant, but he isnt difference between finals or non finals. If he was we would have made finals when he was here.

 

[AFC979810]

Results suggest otherwise!

Went from one of the best to worst forward lines once he left.

Well what about this year?

In 2023 we averaged 13.9 goals whilst in 2025 we are averaging 15.2 goals.

Scott Burns deserves a statue! What a brilliant assistant!

 

[Rotayjay]

Looks like some have started to plan - these prices didn’t exist a week ago.

Return flights on the Sunday after the GF - look at Business Class.View attachment 2336923


And this is the week before on the Sunday -

View attachment 2336925

Every year I book the Friday before the granny off work so I can drive to Melbourne if the best-case scenario eventuates. Qantas and Virgin can suck my ******

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Well what about this year?

In 2023 we averaged 13.9 goals whilst in 2025 we are averaging 15.2 goals.

Scott Burns deserves a statue! What a brilliant assistant!

Huh?

Davis was brought in to overhaul our strategy.

Don't need to be Einstein to work out who was behind the change of game plans...

 

[kirky]

Every year I book the Friday before the granny off work so I can drive to Melbourne if the best-case scenario eventuates. Qantas and Virgin can suck my ******

Well I booked accommodation early this year for Friday and Saturday of the GF just in case.

Can cancel the Wednesday before the GF so makes it a no brainer in future.

 

[AFC979810]

Huh?

Davis was brought in to overhaul our strategy.

Don't need to be Einstein to work out who was behind the change of game plans...

So Rahilly was our strategist not our forward line coach?

For me it seems we went from:

2020 - 18th in scoring - No Rahilly, Murray or Burns
2021 - 14th in scoring - Rahilly fwd coach no Murray
2022 - 14th in scoring - Rahilly fwd coach no Murray
2023 - 1st in scoring - Rahilly fwd coach no Murray
2024 - 12th in scoring - Burns fwd coach no Murray
2025 - 1st in scoring. - Burns fwd coach with Murray.

Seems a lot more about personal and list strength rather than assistant coaches.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

So Rahilly was our strategist not our forward line coach?

For me it seems we went from:

2020 - 18th in scoring - No Rahilly, Murray or Burns
2021 - 14th in scoring - Rahilly fwd coach no Murray
2022 - 14th in scoring - Rahilly fwd coach no Murray
2023 - 1st in scoring - Rahilly fwd coach no Murray
2024 - 12th in scoring - Burns fwd coach no Murray
2025 - 1st in scoring. - Burns fwd coach with Murray.

Seems a lot more about personal and list strength rather than assistant coaches.

So what was the significant difference between 2023 & 2024, as playing list was similar...

 

[AFC979810]

So what was the significant difference between 2023 & 2024, as playing list was similar...

There were many significant differences.

In 2023 - Tex was on fire. He went from 79 goals to 29 goals in 2024.

Long term injuries were a factor - 2023 TT played 21 games. He was out until round 18. Milera had a great season in 2023 - he played 3 games in 2024. Pedlar went backwards from 2023 to 2024. Rankine missed a heavy chunk of the season.

Combine the above with the fact Nicks is an absolute pork chop and went to a defensive gameplan to start 2024. This cost us the first 4 games of the season and we never had a chance.

So the assistant coaches would rank pretty low on the significant difference scale.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

There were many significant differences.

In 2023 - Tex was on fire. He went from 79 goals to 29 goals in 2024.

Long term injuries were a factor - 2023 TT played 21 games. He was out until round 18. Milera had a great season in 2023 - he played 3 games in 2024. Pedlar went backwards from 2023 to 2024. Rankine missed a heavy chunk of the season.

Combine the above with the fact Nicks is an absolute pork chop and went to a defensive gameplan to start 2024. This cost us the first 4 games of the season and we never had a chance.

So the assistant coaches would rank pretty low on the significant difference scale.

We are not going to agree, but our coaching IQ was at an all-time low in 2024 & we changed to a negative game plan & our scoring suffered.

This had nothing to do with injuries... that was just the excuse AFC brought out later in the season as a cover-up for extending Nicks for no good reason.