Mega Thread Nick Daicos - Can he be the GTWEB? Part 2

[sr36]

The issue with Collingwood at the moment, for mine, is everythign goes through Nick. He is the Patrick Mahomes/Lebron James of Collingwood.

Its the underlying factor as to why Houston has been a bust. At Port, he was their playmaker. Their inside 50 kicker. Hes none of that at Collingwood, because they have a generational player in Nick, who does all that.

If he slows down, Collingwood slow down. I totally agree with Kane here.

Its been a common theme for the second half of the year, but really exacerbated by the rest of the midfield having a shocker against Brissy. Pendles lasted 2 minutes. Jordy became dead wood after a big bump. Long had one of his panicky shockers. Sidey was uncharacteristic and stuffed up his opportunities.

 

[HBFlanker]

Its been a common theme for the second half of the year, but really exacerbated by the rest of the midfield having a shocker against Brissy. Pendles lasted 2 minutes. Jordy became dead wood after a big bump. Long had one of his panicky shockers. Sidey was uncharacteristic and stuffed up his opportunities.

Could not agree more with that. Spot on.

 

[doppleganger]

Its been a common theme for the second half of the year, but really exacerbated by the rest of the midfield having a shocker against Brissy. Pendles lasted 2 minutes. Jordy became dead wood after a big bump. Long had one of his panicky shockers. Sidey was uncharacteristic and stuffed up his opportunities.

Yep.

Naicos was the only Pies mid who really fired, can't win big PFs when majority of your midfield is beaten.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Strange thread to be talking about the lack of graciousness of Pies supporters. It's a heap of Non-Pies talking about the best young kid in the comp we've seen since Chris Judd and claiming he's a seagull and a squib and carrying on when he's not best on ground despite playing a very good game - albeit with a couple of crucial missed tackles.

Brisbane were excellent - massacred us around stoppage and contest in general. Executed beautifully under pressure late in the game to exploit our comeback swarm. Dissected us with your kicking and really smart tactics to kick to a pack and box out our tall defenders for blokes at the front of the pack in the air and at ground level. Morris is an outstanding kid, just so smart and such a sacrificial game he played. But I don't think you defended the ground very well, which you have to against the Cats with their runners, particularly as it'll be stars ahead of the ball a heap - rather than Mason Cox. The selection of Cox assumed we could stop you kicking through us, so we'd have repeat entries into congestion, but we couldn't stop your spread and kicking game, so winning stoppage and moving it so easily and getting your forwardline set up meant you dictated the game.

However, you relied on goals in heavy congestion, be it pack marks or stoppages - I don't think that will work against the Cats. I think they'll be much stronger defensively than we were and much more efficient on fast breaks than we were. I can't really see how you'll beat them unless Fagan can pull a rabbit out of the hat, as I think with the lack of size up forward you'll have to aim for a similar style again and they'll torch you on transition in a way we were too sloppy and too weak ahead of the ball to do. I think it's going to be a smashing. Despite the 7th year in finals in a row, you've got a heap of kids in this team and it's been an outstanding effort to cover for crucial injuries, but I think you're in with little chance. Brisbane has developed really quickly into a fantastic footy club who is going to be thereabouts for a fair while to come - I just don't think this year is going to be a Premiership. I hope I'm wrong - I'll be barracking for Brissy.

I was replying to your post that Collingwood had a shocker and ‘all’ of Brisbanes goals were from sloppy shit from Collingwood play- quite different to this post hey.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

That's a way over-rating of his game. Obviously doesn't factor in the missed tackles, but he did open them up a fair few times, which I assume the high score was from. I hate to say it but I think it's going to be another shit GF with Cats absolutely torching then. We had a shocker. The whole game went to plan for Brissy, yet all their goals were sloppy shit from us, coughing up a heap of stoppage goals and pack marks to mediums - they'll get **** all of them against the Cats. And we actually cut through them pretty easily in transition but kept ****ing up due to an open forward line with Cox against Andrews and a +1 ahead of them as the option.

What? Brisbane had more:

scoring shots
disposals
kicks
handballs
i50s
de%
clearances
stoppage clearances
contested possessions
uncontested possessions
intercepts
marks
contested marks
etc. etc

but yes, it was collingwood that lost it, not brisbane winning it.

besides a purple patch in Q2, collingwood were outmuscled, outclassed & outplayed.

fairly ridiculous analysis by you.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Sure, not that I believe in such things but hey it's "evidence"

View attachment 2433111

Do they have a breakdown of this. I rated Wilmot as one of our best

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Do they have a breakdown of this. I rated Wilmot as one of our best

Na no idea

But it's obvious it favours attacking players from high scoring teams, with little regard for defence

It's borderline witchcraft

 

[sr36]

I was replying to your post that Collingwood had a shocker and ‘all’ of Brisbanes goals were from sloppy shit from Collingwood play- quite different to this post hey.

Apologies that you didn't like my phrasing, but I do think Collingwood had a shit game - third quarter really - and I do think it's sloppy shit when teams cough up a heap of stoppage goals and a heap of pack marks at the front of the pack to medium sized players inside 50 - Which was that third quarter. You killed us with entries but we just didn't hold up and the worst thing is they were all repeat contested events - box out our talls and have a medium jumping at the front of the pack - on repeat. Same point of the stoppage breaking down again and again. Teams that experienced shouldn't be being beaten the same way over and over again - we were lucky you missed a few so it wasn't a 10 goal quarter. I appreciate that you would have been focussing on how good your mids were. How good Rayner was. Wilmott's dash. A first year CHF beating Collingwood in the air and baulking and kicking goals on the ground. It was really impressive. But I was focussing on Collingwood - and that third quarter was an absolute train wreck from the Pies.

 

[Shane Heard]

Nicky is like a limp rag doll when caught with the ball.


Good at running and handpasses though ..and has good hair

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Nicky is like a limp rag doll when caught with the ball.


Good at running and handpasses though ..and has good hair

Wispy comb over compared to Sir William Ashcroft.

 

[ShereKhan]

I don't mind the logic, using ground location and likelihood of next score as a key inputs...make all the chip kicks across D50 as basically worthless, and you reward that really difficult pass inside 50 that sets up the goal.

You are correct though in that it then favours players from high scoring aggressive teams (like the Dogs) who play a game style that is about scoring and players who are given license to play as the aggressive forward running mids.

But at the end of the day it is just a different Supercoach style score, and CD don't know pre-game instructions or roles given to players.

People don't understand the ratings. One-off games can be misleading.

Going the Mr. Disengenuos route I see.

3 of the 7 were in his debut season (even the disengenuos one will argue they shouldn't be included). How many players in their debut season are voted in best 2 players on the ground in a final?

And what is the big step between best 2 compared to best 3...or does it just happen that Daicos has multiple games where he was 3rd best according to coaches.

Great to see someone giving Mr Meow a challenge.

Make that a 4th final where not voted in the best-7 players on the ground. 4 out of 7. Then a couple of equal 3rds and a 4th.

Hmmm.....that's a handy finals resume. Not sure it's the finals resume of a GOAT contender??

His average coaches votes per final of 2/game probably has him about 40th since 2016. Not bad amongst probably 500 x finals participants in that time - top 10% is solid.

 

[sr36]

What? Brisbane had more:

scoring shots
disposals
kicks
handballs
i50s
de%
clearances
stoppage clearances
contested possessions
uncontested possessions
intercepts
marks
contested marks
etc. etc

but yes, it was collingwood that lost it, not brisbane winning it.

besides a purple patch in Q2, collingwood were outmuscled, outclassed & outplayed.

fairly ridiculous analysis by you.

Except for scoring those things are why I said it was played on Brisbane's terms. They won stoppage. They transitioned with ease at their pace so they had heaps of entries with good representation ahead of the ball. But you've still got to score. And about 8 of their scoring shots in that third were from really defendable situations that you'd expect us to defend way better than we did. 3 200cm blokes flying couldn't stop Raynor at the front of packs clunking it. and we couldn't defend stoppage and it wasn't bobble around stuff that comes out through multiple hands - it was a bloke on the move coming through and doing it solo. Brilliant from the Brisbane brilliant crew, but it was still shithouse from us. We were lucky that Rayner missed a couple and Lohmann a shot he'd kick most of the time. It could have been a 10 goal quarter - mainly from goals in contests where we had huge representation.

 

[ShereKhan]

He already has proven himself in finals.

3rd in Norm Smith voting.

Involved twice in the biggest play that got Collingwood in front in the 23 GF, when he went to the middle and won 1st possession and then got the goal assists to DeGoey.

And then when needed a clam head to maintain possession in dying stages, he nailed his kick to WHE when under intense pressure.. majority of players just blast it out of their area and give it back to Brisbane.

His impact in the last couple of minutes of the 23 GF won us a flag.

And this year he dropped his 26.3 PF, that is maximum impact.

But yeah, back in his debut season he wasn't top2 on the ground according to coaches votes.

FMD.....in a close finals win there'd be 10 x players you could say were 'crucial in the dying stages'. Nank took a couple of contested marks in D50 in the dying stages of the 2020 PF Tigers won by 6-points. Not a finals great. Richmond kicked 2 x goals in the last quarter of that 2020 PF...Lambert kicked both of them. Nobody anointing him as any sort of finals superstar.

When you have to pick out individual little actions to make your argument and can't reflect on entire games or entire finals series you know you're dealing with a handy finals player, not a great one.

And I think the coaches saw what anyone watching did...a game of minimal impact from Naicos not worthy of being rated in best-7 on the ground...maybe he was 8th?

He's only 22yo and has time to improve his finals resume, which he'll need to do to prevent this thread being treated as a bit of a lark. Oh...I'm sure he'll go close in the Brownlow tonight ..he's great at H&A accolades where the contest is a little more suited to outside ball winners.

 

[Lunchtime]

Looks like the coaches voted according to how the players performed in the Prelim Final (Collingwood vs Brisbane).

Nick Daicos - no votes. Fair enough too.

He didnt do enough to impact on the game. Simple as that.

 

[ShereKhan]

What? Brisbane had more:

scoring shots
disposals
kicks
handballs
i50s
de%
clearances
stoppage clearances
contested possessions
uncontested possessions
intercepts
marks
contested marks
etc. etc

but yes, it was collingwood that lost it, not brisbane winning it.

besides a purple patch in Q2, collingwood were outmuscled, outclassed & outplayed.

fairly ridiculous analysis by you.

Finally some common sense...the Pies kicked 6-goals in a 25-minute patch in second quarter. The rest of the game Lions were dominant - in regards to territory, I50's, contest, time in possession...you name it, Lions were dominant. Pies only kept some semblance of competitiveness thanks to straight kicking.

Lions did this without Neale, Payne, Coleman, McCarthy, Hipwood, Answerth and Berry out of commission early.

Pies were gallant but ultimately completely outclassed...I shudder to think of the margin if Lions had anything remotely close to their best team.

 

[Mr Meow]

People don't understand the ratings. One-off games can be misleading.

Make that a 4th final where not voted in the best-7 players on the ground. 4 out of 7. Then a couple of equal 3rds and a 4th.

Hmmm.....that's a handy finals resume. Not sure it's the finals resume of a GOAT contender??

His average coaches votes per final of 2/game probably has him about 40th since 2016. Not bad amongst probably 500 x finals participants in that time - top 10% is solid.

If you forget the GF weighting adjustment, Daicos' coaches votes in finals have been:

0
0
0
3
4
5
0

By no means terrible for the 2022-2025 period. Roughly as many votes as Serong, Dangerfield, Blicavs, Andrews, McCluggage and Washcroft have collected in the 2025 finals series so far.

 

[Lunchtime]

Finally some common sense...the Pies kicked 6-goals in a 25-minute patch in second quarter. The rest of the game Lions were dominant - in regards to territory, I50's, contest, time in possession...you name it, Lions were dominant. Pies only kept some semblance of competitiveness thanks to straight kicking.

Lions did this without Neale, Payne, Coleman, McCarthy, Hipwood, Answerth and Berry out of commission early.

Pies were gallant but ultimately completely outclassed...I shudder to think of the margin if Lions had anything remotely close to their best team.

Good teams find a way to cover losses and aren't reliant on too few.

 

[T2B_]

Amazing how the Pies fans on here bag the Brownlow every year and how meaningless it is and yet when a Pies player all of a sudden is in contention its the most important award ever.

Eh it's just classic BF nuffie logic really. If a player for someone's team can win the Brownlow, it matters. If not then it doesn't. We're all guilty of it, and I suppose any club's supporters that don't make the GF will take whatever they can get.

Tonight I think Nick would be deserving. Still doesn't make him the GOAT, but he'd be deserving enough tonight. It'll be interesting if Dawson gets anywhere near as predicted though, could be interesting at the end.

 

[HairyO]

I don't think he wins it this year.

Most other teams have a few players stealing votes off eachother across many games.

Daicos and Dawson are big chances and Gawn is a sneaky for top 5 despite Melbourne being utter crap.

 

[Lunchtime]

Amazing how the Pies fans on here bag the Brownlow every year and how meaningless it is and yet when a Pies player all of a sudden is in contention its the most important award ever.

Yep. They have a self entitled point of view.

 

[sr36]

Most other teams have a few players stealing votes off eachother across many games.

Daicos and Dawson are big chances and Gawn is a sneaky for top 5 despite Melbourne being utter crap.

I don't think Nick will get many votes in the first half of the year. I'd quite like Caleb Serong to win it. He's unreal and doesn't get enough plaudits.

 

[Fadge]

Don't you just love how people feel the need to flock to this thread to share their glee about Daicos NOT receiving coaches votes?

It just shows the bar he has set. Ty Gallop receives 2 votes for a half decent game, whereas Daicos has the second best individual performance of the weekend according to the infallible PlAyEr RaTiNgZ algorithm, and 'Sorry, no votes for you!'

 

[Mr Meow]

Don't you just love how people feel the need to flock to this thread to share their glee about Daicos NOT receiving coaches votes?

It just shows the bar he has set. Ty Gallop receives 2 votes for a half decent game, whereas Daicos has the second best individual performance of the weekend according to the infallible PlAyEr RaTiNgZ algorithm, and 'Sorry, no votes for you!'

Like I said, Daicos was about the 10th best player on the ground.

Still a fine effort for a soon to be 23 year old. Ablett was a whopping 7 months older when he was clear BOG in a QF + PF, after going close in the 2004 SF and 2005 EF in previous seasons.

 

[Fadge]

4 different posters check out the Ayres Medal Voting, and their first thought is 'Yes! I need to rush to the Daicos GOAT thread on BigFooty!'

He really has done a number on youse.

 

[doppleganger]

Yep. They have a self entitled point of view.

What does a supporters opinion of the Brownlow have to do with being self entitled?

I think the coaches award is the best reflection of which player had the best season.