Training 2019 Preseason Discussion

[Grand Uncle Horace]

The brain is protected by meninges, a series of tough membranes. Added to this the brain floats in jelly like liquid called the cerebrospinal fluid, sometimes referred to as Brain soup. This is, a warm jelly like substance.

When the head is knocked there are several things that can happen depending on the angle, force and type of the blow (blunt force compared to sharp jab). If the blow is too light to cause damage the brain moves like a boat in a choppy sea and is protected. But a much harder or more precise angle on the blow may cause the brain soup to move completely away from an area of tgmhe skull and even the meninges can't protect the brain here. This is where you get the brain bruising and twisted brain syndrome that cause concussion. The brain moves in an unnatural way and this stresses the nerve centres, the cortex and the synapses (think of them as millions of little relay leads that send neurons to different parts of the brain so you can exist. Without them we are brain dead) to the point the become injured or out of alignment. Concussions come in different degrees but no matter how small they can still have an impact later in life. It really depends on the part of the brain most affected by the concussion.

I studied brain chemistry in psychology. It is a fascinating part of the human body. The engine if you are mechanical. The nerve centre if you are technical. It is our computer and like the computer, it does not like to be knocked around. Some people are prone to concussion due to their genetic make up. They may have lower soup levels or tender meninges. Or they may just have a fragile nervous system.

The brain is a study in progress. As much as medical science would like to claim they know about the brain, thry only know a certain amount. The rest is supposition. For instance, what do the chemicals in the brain actually do? There is a certain amount of evidence certain chemicals do certain things. But most psychotic drugs for instance, only target 2-4 chemicals when there are far more than this. Even the actual function of those chemicals is not fully understood. Reasonably yes, fully no. Are they the only chemicals that control behavior? No. Are they the only ones they take into account when designing psych drugs? yes.

So as you see the brain is more complex than even the most complex computer. Humans know what makes a computer work. Technicians, technical engineers etc can tell you how they designed and build computers. But nobody knows completely how the brain is really designed and why it is built the way it is. Nobody can claim to know everything about how it works because nobody know the entirity imof the complexity of the brain.

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Thanks for that Wolftone. The brain is one of our last frontiers. A century or so from now, medical science historians will probably consider our era and progress in understanding to be little more than the simple first steps.

ECT is an example of a treatment (nowadays mainly for depression attendant to bi-polar disorder), the efficacy of which can be observed, but the hows and whys of efficacy are still not fully understood.

 

[RUNVS]

Just yesterday I was giving my theories on how we needed to slowly transition McCartin into the team since he and Blakey would be our forward targets in 5 years with Reid and Buddy gone but now that discussion is meaningless. I hope like hell McCartin can come back but at the same time if there is a strong risk to his future health then I think he should retire. A career in AFL is not worth decades of pain that would come as a result of brain damage.

 

[mikey_san]

Again though in the grand scheme of things McInerney was just a bit player today. O’Riordan had more of a sustained impact across the game and I’d rather we backed him off the half back than a kid. I just think our hand has been forced in recent years and we’ve had to rely on some kids based on not much more than the glimpses of potential they tease us with. We don’t have to do that now though because we have some mature depth who can impact games for longer, like COR, Clarke, and Dawson.

I love playing the kids and backing them in but I’m wary because of how it’s been costly at times in recent years. Based on today I’d only have Blakey and Rowbottom as types who could really impact at senior level consistently, and even then I’ll need to see more of the same from them over the pre-season before I have either of them in my best 22.

Fair points all - I'll always want to see a few rookies thrown on if we aren't winning the flag - though for sure we've had to play some kids waay too much over the last couple of years. Hopefully it pays off this year though for Ollie and Hayward - looks like it might.

McInerney...did you see the point (in the 3rd?) where he chased the ball , got it and put a step on his opponent right on the line (going over by a centimetre), and then look to jet off into attack? THAT is the type of play we need to get our very potent forward line cutting teams up. Not the usual take it over the line and set up a stoppage we would get from the much slower (though all awesome players Mills, Smith, McV). And I think that move and a couple of his other runs will see him push hard for a spot if he can pop up with 3/4 runs like that per game.
It's the kind of play we drafted Ling and Stoddart for - so obviously they see the need for someone to run it out, it's just come from a rookie who wasn't even in his high school team for the most part. That goal by Paps started by McI was our most fluid play since the Reid goal from 50 in the GF against the Hawks!

Maybe I've just got preseason fever...actually no maybe about it.

I do think the draft just gone will go down as our best in a long time.

Can totally see O'Riordan playing plenty this year, read the play well at times yesterday and can be a solid contributor. I don't mind him for a Smith or McV replacement - again that could happen this year given the pace of some of the small forwards now - and Smith being similar to Mcv in that regard.

Let's rip the bandaid off and play both O' and Mc'I - we might finally win the NEAFL too with McV, KJ and Smith running the team.

 

[MarkP]

s**t on a stick. That club update sounds like battlespace preparation for real bad news.

Not liking the look of this on Tom.

Damn I hope I am way off target with my thinking

 

[RUNVS]

s**t on a stick. That club update sounds like battlespace preparation for real bad news.

Not liking the look of this on Tom.

Damn I hope I am way off target with my thinking

SO do I, but I have been thinking about it and how many players in the AFL in the last 5 years have had serious concussion issues like this and not retired? I mean I can think of a number of players that just retired mid season because of this, but I am struggling to think of players that have really come back and made an impact. I mean Paddy McCartin might be one, but even he is constantly worried about anytime he even gets a slight hit to the head, as he is knocked out super super easily.

 

[caesar88]

Fair points all - I'll always want to see a few rookies thrown on if we aren't winning the flag - though for sure we've had to play some kids waay too much over the last couple of years. Hopefully it pays off this year though for Ollie and Hayward - looks like it might.

McInerney...did you see the point (in the 3rd?) where he chased the ball , got it and put a step on his opponent right on the line (going over by a centimetre), and then look to jet off into attack? THAT is the type of play we need to get our very potent forward line cutting teams up. Not the usual take it over the line and set up a stoppage we would get from the much slower (though all awesome players Mills, Smith, McV). And I think that move and a couple of his other runs will see him push hard for a spot if he can pop up with 3/4 runs like that per game.
It's the kind of play we drafted Ling and Stoddart for - so obviously they see the need for someone to run it out, it's just come from a rookie who wasn't even in his high school team for the most part. That goal by Paps started by McI was our most fluid play since the Reid goal from 50 in the GF against the Hawks!

Maybe I've just got preseason fever...actually no maybe about it.

I do think the draft just gone will go down as our best in a long time.

Can totally see O'Riordan playing plenty this year, read the play well at times yesterday and can be a solid contributor. I don't mind him for a Smith or McV replacement - again that could happen this year given the pace of some of the small forwards now - and Smith being similar to Mcv in that regard.

Let's rip the bandaid off and play both O' and Mc'I - we might finally win the NEAFL too with McV, KJ and Smith running the team.

I am just more cautious I guess. Let’s remember last year we looked as excited by Stoddart as we currently are by McInerney. When the heat was turned right up in the first half, McInerney wasn’t sighted. Then once we had a decent lead and the pressure kind of wilted away in the second half, McInerney had so much time and space and capitalised. Yes it looked good and was exciting to see a Swan want to run, but there were those that were able to do it right off the bat for four quarters (Florent, O’Riordan, Cunningham were breaking lines all day). Unfortunately that’s what will be required of McInerney if he played at AFL level. We have to be realistic and remember that he won’t be able to do half of the things he did yesterday in a home and away match.

Why I was more impressed with Blakey and Rowbottom is because their games looked more likely to translate well to the highest level. Blakey’s kicking style for example looked bloody smooth - that wouldn’t change at senior level. The fact he’s a 196cm bean-pole who attacks hard and works hard makes him an imposing player with or without the footy. Rowbottom was also great in tight and set up many plays by making something out of nothing and causing turnovers by being in the right places and reading the ball well. These are qualities they showed that will still be there even when surrounded by the big dogs in the AFL. McInerney’s to me was the quintessential NEAFL highlights reel match. But keen to see more of him so he better see some JLT action as I think he may be able to build a fitness load up pretty quickly and put some pressure on McVeigh later in the season!

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

The real worry is the sort of long term damage that can occur. Was shocked 18 months ago when listening to Greg Williams.

Listening to Diesel was just terrible. He was still lucid but clearly struggling to concentrate to his utmost.

I have known a number of former boxers (all now dead). As a boy I learnt to box and just loved both the sport and participating. (my sporting heroes as a kid and teen were Wally Grout, Skilts, Clegg, Goldsmith, Sobers, Jimmy Carruthers, Lionel Rose and Ali). Lucky for me I was hopeless. I had a slow twitch and what used to be called a glass jaw and so was made to stop. Most of the former boxers I knew had a level of brain damage. A few decades ago I formed the view that given the chance I would ban boxing in a heartbeat.

Like all of us, I really hope Tommy McCartin recovers from his clearly serious brain injury. If there is any doubt about potential recurrence I hope sense prevails and he pulls the pin. He is still just a boy and should have plenty of other options to lead a fulfilling and healthy life.

#nomorediesels

 

[Nool Carpenna]

That goal by Paps started by McI was our most fluid play since the Reid goal from 50 in the GF against the Hawks!

“It does not get better than that!”



There are a lot worse ways to spend 30mins on a rainy Saturday

 

[caesar88]

SO do I, but I have been thinking about it and how many players in the AFL in the last 5 years have had serious concussion issues like this and not retired? I mean I can think of a number of players that just retired mid season because of this, but I am struggling to think of players that have really come back and made an impact. I mean Paddy McCartin might be one, but even he is constantly worried about anytime he even gets a slight hit to the head, as he is knocked out super super easily.

Again uninformed dumbie who failed science in high school here, but are the effects permanent? I could see why staff may advise retirement if the injuries were serious enough that they didn’t want him on the football field in the imminent future, but is there no chance of recovery or healing to the point of return in a few years time?

 

[TheMase]

A few comments about the game.

Mcinerney isn’t ready just yet, but I like what I see. Aside from his blistering pace, confidence and neat kicking skills, I was really impressed with his competitiveness. There was a play where he made 2nd, 3rd and 4th efforts and from memory then won the ball for us. Looked to have smarts about him.

Stoddart is a similar player from the run perspective but I feel he lacks a bit of competitiveness to really get in and have a dig. He is still very young but I am not convinced at all that he is going to make it.

Rowbottom is another that showed a lot of competitiveness and wasn’t afraid to have a dip. He isn’t quite there yet either but the signs are positive.

I thought even Reynolds had a couple of nice moments and he seems to have some real competitiveness about him too, albeit he is raw.

I feel like Papleys game has been underrated / not spoken about much. He is shaping up really nicely for 2019.

Maibaum looked quicker than I recall. He looked really solid and I think is ready for senior footy should an opportunity come along.

COR was solid but let down by his kicking a little.

Florent played a very good inside outside game. He has put on some nice size now and should be a strong contributor this year.

Hewett is another that has gone under the radar a bit. I thought his inside contribution was excellent, he is ready to take the next step.

Mills looks a born inside midfielder, his quick hands were a delight and I think he will spend the whole year through the mids.

Blakey looks ready for AFL footy despite his frame, going to be difficult to leave out and given injuries to Menzal, Buddy and now McCartin, he is an almost certain Round One starter.

Lloyd hasn’t been mentioned much (and some won’t like this), but I felt he absolutely butchered the ball by foot. I reckon a good majority of his kicks missed their target.

Hayward looks to have put in significant size, thought I’d still like to see more involvement across the game from him.

Pink is tenacious, I can see why the club have persisted with him. Competitive has a dip.

Cameron I thought was really disappointing. Has an opportunity to put his name forward for Rd1 but not on that performance.

Dawson was solid, had some really good moments. I’d still like to see him hit the contest a little harder.

Rampe looks in great touch.
Melican has some good moments too and I am looking forward to his return to the 22.

Fox was solid.

 

[caesar88]

A few comments about the game.

Mcinerney isn’t ready just yet, but I like what I see. Aside from his blistering pace, confidence and neat kicking skills, I was really impressed with his competitiveness. There was a play where he made 2nd, 3rd and 4th efforts and from memory then won the ball for us. Looked to have smarts about him.

Stoddart is a similar player from the run perspective but I feel he lacks a bit of competitiveness to really get in and have a dig. He is still very young but I am not convinced at all that he is going to make it.

Rowbottom is another that showed a lot of competitiveness and wasn’t afraid to have a dip. He isn’t quite there yet either but the signs are positive.

I thought even Reynolds had a couple of nice moments and he seems to have some real competitiveness about him too, albeit he is raw.

I feel like Papleys game has been underrated / not spoken about much. He is shaping up really nicely for 2019.

Maibaum looked quicker than I recall. He looked really solid and I think is ready for senior footy should an opportunity come along.

COR was solid but let down by his kicking a little.

Florent played a very good inside outside game. He has put on some nice size now and should be a strong contributor this year.

Hewett is another that has gone under the radar a bit. I thought his inside contribution was excellent, he is ready to take the next step.

Mills looks a born inside midfielder, his quick hands were a delight and I think he will spend the whole year through the mids.

Blakey looks ready for AFL footy despite his frame, going to be difficult to leave out and given injuries to Menzal, Buddy and now McCartin, he is an almost certain Round One starter.

Lloyd hasn’t been mentioned much (and some won’t like this), but I felt he absolutely butchered the ball by foot. I reckon a good majority of his kicks missed their target.

Hayward looks to have put in significant size, thought I’d still like to see more involvement across the game from him.

Pink is tenacious, I can see why the club have persisted with him. Competitive has a dip.

Cameron I thought was really disappointing. Has an opportunity to put his name forward for Rd1 but not on that performance.

Dawson was solid, had some really good moments. I’d still like to see him hit the contest a little harder.

Rampe looks in great touch.
Melican has some good moments too and I am looking forward to his return to the 22.

Fox was solid.

Lloyd was rusty as **** even his movement looked off. There was one moment where he turned off one step and dead set wobbled so much he looked like me on a Saturday night! At first I wondered why we rushed him for a scratch match but I can see why now. It’ll do him good to dust the cobwebs off.

 

[mikey_san]

I am just more cautious I guess. Let’s remember last year we looked as excited by Stoddart as we currently are by McInerney. When the heat was turned right up in the first half, McInerney wasn’t sighted. Then once we had a decent lead and the pressure kind of wilted away in the second half, McInerney had so much time and space and capitalised. Yes it looked good and was exciting to see a Swan want to run, but there were those that were able to do it right off the bat for four quarters (Florent, O’Riordan, Cunningham were breaking lines all day). Unfortunately that’s what will be required of McInerney if he played at AFL level. We have to be realistic and remember that he won’t be able to do half of the things he did yesterday in a home and away match.

Why I was more impressed with Blakey and Rowbottom is because their games looked more likely to translate well to the highest level. Blakey’s kicking style for example looked bloody smooth - that wouldn’t change at senior level. The fact he’s a 196cm bean-pole who attacks hard and works hard makes him an imposing player with or without the footy. Rowbottom was also great in tight and set up many plays by making something out of nothing and causing turnovers by being in the right places and reading the ball well. These are qualities they showed that will still be there even when surrounded by the big dogs in the AFL. McInerney’s to me was the quintessential NEAFL highlights reel match. But keen to see more of him so he better see some JLT action as I think he may be able to build a fitness load up pretty quickly and put some pressure on McVeigh later in the season!

I just figured he wasn't on the field early. Could be wrong.
Agree on Blakey. Can lead, can kick - fast for his size. Looks like a round one starter and in my supercoach team. How will opponents 3rd defender deal with him if Reid and Buddy are in the team? He could kick a lot of goals this year and if he starts demanding the 2nd defender Reid will kill them too.

Rowbottom looks well handy and a type we need. Hope he keeps it up - might need a year to get bigger as with his game style he's going to take a battering. Looking forward to his debut though and it might come early - he and Clarke battling for a spot?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

A few comments about the game.

Mcinerney isn’t ready just yet, but I like what I see. Aside from his blistering pace, confidence and neat kicking skills, I was really impressed with his competitiveness. There was a play where he made 2nd, 3rd and 4th efforts and from memory then won the ball for us. Looked to have smarts about him.

Stoddart is a similar player from the run perspective but I feel he lacks a bit of competitiveness to really get in and have a dig. He is still very young but I am not convinced at all that he is going to make it.

Rowbottom is another that showed a lot of competitiveness and wasn’t afraid to have a dip. He isn’t quite there yet either but the signs are positive.

I thought even Reynolds had a couple of nice moments and he seems to have some real competitiveness about him too, albeit he is raw.

I feel like Papleys game has been underrated / not spoken about much. He is shaping up really nicely for 2019.

Maibaum looked quicker than I recall. He looked really solid and I think is ready for senior footy should an opportunity come along.

COR was solid but let down by his kicking a little.

Florent played a very good inside outside game. He has put on some nice size now and should be a strong contributor this year.

Hewett is another that has gone under the radar a bit. I thought his inside contribution was excellent, he is ready to take the next step.

Mills looks a born inside midfielder, his quick hands were a delight and I think he will spend the whole year through the mids.

Blakey looks ready for AFL footy despite his frame, going to be difficult to leave out and given injuries to Menzal, Buddy and now McCartin, he is an almost certain Round One starter.

Lloyd hasn’t been mentioned much (and some won’t like this), but I felt he absolutely butchered the ball by foot. I reckon a good majority of his kicks missed their target.

Hayward looks to have put in significant size, thought I’d still like to see more involvement across the game from him.

Pink is tenacious, I can see why the club have persisted with him. Competitive has a dip.

Cameron I thought was really disappointing. Has an opportunity to put his name forward for Rd1 but not on that performance.

Dawson was solid, had some really good moments. I’d still like to see him hit the contest a little harder.

Rampe looks in great touch.
Melican has some good moments too and I am looking forward to his return to the 22.

Fox was solid.

I watched the second half and the above is a good summation. I was not as impressed with Melican, but maybe he was better in the first half.

 

[RUNVS]

Again uninformed dumbie who failed science in high school here, but are the effects permanent? I could see why staff may advise retirement if the injuries were serious enough that they didn’t want him on the football field in the imminent future, but is there no chance of recovery or healing to the point of return in a few years time?

Now I am no expert either but from what I have heard the effects can be cumulative, and for some people the effects are much greater than for others, so if McCartin is the sort who is greatly affected by concussions that means even if he does come back the next hit could end his career, and each time he takes a knock to the head it increases his chance of living with some pretty horrible symptoms for the rest of his life (like memory loss or even death).

 

[Number37]

We need a nickname for McInerney

Bert.

As in Bert & Ernie instead of Mac & Ernie.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Bert.

As in Bert & Ernie instead of Mac & Ernie.

good one!

 

[TheMase]

Lloyd was rusty as **** even his movement looked off. There was one moment where he turned off one step and dead set wobbled so much he looked like me on a Saturday night! At first I wondered why we rushed him for a scratch match but I can see why now. It’ll do him good to dust the cobwebs off.

Haha I wasn’t sure if you’d agree. I am not normally that critical of Lloyd but thought he let himself down with even basic disposals.

Only preseason though so blowing those cobwebs off. I expect players like Lloyd to go at 50%.

On the disposal point, I missed on my original commentary, Florent needs to tidy up his kicking too. I am a huge fan as many here know, and it’ll come, but just thought i would add that.

 

[TheMase]

I watched the second half and the above is a good summation. I was not as impressed with Melican, but maybe he was better in the first half.

Melican had some good moments, a decent contested mark or two, used the ball well.
He was rusty but I expect that given he has played so little footy over the last 12 months.
I probably viewed his performance from that point of view. He didn’t play at his previous senior standard but I didn’t expect that, I just wanted to see signs his confidence is still there and that didn’t seem to be missing so I was pretty happy overall.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Melican had some good moments, a decent contested mark or two, used the ball well.
He was rusty but I expect that given he has played so little footy over the last 12 months.
I probably viewed his performance from that point of view. He didn’t play at his previous senior standard but I didn’t expect that, I just wanted to see signs his confidence is still there and that didn’t seem to be missing so I was pretty happy overall.

I must say I was more impressed with Maibaum. Had not rated the lad all that highly before and was delighted at how he played.

 

[TheMase]

I must say I was more impressed with Maibaum. Had not rated the lad all that highly before and was delighted at how he played.

He was really good. That’s what you want to see from kids that want to break into the 22. Continued improvement and the drive to put in strong performances early in the year. I’d be pretty comfortable with him playing senior footy now. He has definitely worked hard on the offensive aspects of his game too, as much like Melican was, they were pretty weak when drafted. He is tracking really well.

That’s probably why someone like Stoddart is disappointing as he doesn’t seem to have gone forward much at all from when he was draft in any aspect of his game or physique.

Rose also was almost absent and his performance didn’t back up the coaching staff giving him another year after an eye opening NEAFL grand final performance. Players like him should be stand outs after 4 years on the list and he wasn’t anywhere near it and when he was he did little that was productive.

 

[caesar88]

Haha I wasn’t sure if you’d agree. I am not normally that critical of Lloyd but thought he let himself down with even basic disposals.

Only preseason though so blowing those cobwebs off. I expect players like Lloyd to go at 50%.

On the disposal point, I missed on my original commentary, Florent needs to tidy up his kicking too. I am a huge fan as many here know, and it’ll come, but just thought i would add that.

No it was very noticeable that he looked scratchy while many others were looking very sharp.

But Florent can do no wrong IMO

 

[S120]

Looking for competitiveness is always a key for younger players, I find. It's not a perfect indicator, but for me it is normally a solid indicator of how far they might go as a professional. If they're prepared to work really hard and go in for multiple efforts (running or tackling or contesting aerial contests or ground balls or whatever) often as an 18 year old, it's a good sign that they are motivated to work really hard and won't run out of drive easily.

McCartin was like that last year (until he fell away later in the year, likely due to his age), Ronke was too, Hannebery in 2009 showed it, and Papley in 2016.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

He was really good. That’s what you want to see from kids that want to break into the 22. Continued improvement and the drive to put in strong performances early in the year. I’d be pretty comfortable with him playing senior footy now. He has definitely worked hard on the offensive aspects of his game too, as much like Melican was, they were pretty weak when drafted. He is tracking really well.

That’s probably why someone like Stoddart is disappointing as he doesn’t seem to have gone forward much at all from when he was draft in any aspect of his game or physique.

Rose also was almost absent and his performance didn’t back up the coaching staff giving him another year after an eye opening NEAFL grand final performance. Players like him should be stand outs after 4 years on the list and he wasn’t anywhere near it and when he was he did little that was productive.

Agree with all this. Rose has plenty of talent but over reaches. I think his contract extension resulted from showing in the NEAFL last year that he was prepared to tackle and do the hard team things. He was ordinary yesterday and made some critical errors (ironically one was a team oriented difficult handball that he stuffed up which led to the first Giant goal in Q3).

 

[caesar88]

I just figured he wasn't on the field early. Could be wrong.
Agree on Blakey. Can lead, can kick - fast for his size. Looks like a round one starter and in my supercoach team. How will opponents 3rd defender deal with him if Reid and Buddy are in the team? He could kick a lot of goals this year and if he starts demanding the 2nd defender Reid will kill them too.

Rowbottom looks well handy and a type we need. Hope he keeps it up - might need a year to get bigger as with his game style he's going to take a battering. Looking forward to his debut though and it might come early - he and Clarke battling for a spot?

McInerney definitely belonged out there. No better time than these preseason matches for kids like him to show what they can do. He’ll play senior footy this year, just hope we don’t get carried away with him based off some pre-season glimpses. If he comes in off some solid NEAFL form I’d be all for that.

I predict Blakey will be better than Reid early in his career (though as I’ve said I don’t think that would be hard.)

I think Rowbottom won’t have a spot open unless there are injuries with Mills and Florent having greater midfield spots, Cunningham looking sharp, Dawson knocking the door down. The club would also probably prefer Clarke whose a bigger body and more mature, but for me based on yesterday I’d say Rowbottom - 1, Clarke - 0. Early days though. I want to see Clarke more because I want our Hanners replacement already!

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Looking for competitiveness is always a key for younger players, I find. It's not a perfect indicator, but for me it is normally a solid indicator of how far they might go as a professional. If they're prepared to work really hard and go in for multiple efforts (running or tackling or contesting aerial contests or ground balls or whatever) often as an 18 year old, it's a good sign that they are motivated to work really hard and won't run out of drive easily.

McCartin was like that last year (until he fell away later in the year, likely due to his age), Ronke was too, Hannebery in 2009 showed it, and Papley in 2016.

Really good points about competitiveness. At one stage in Q3, Bell made four repeat efforts in the one play. I was really impressed by his determination.