AFL 2019 Round 2: Richmond v Collingwood, 7:20pm AEDT MCG

[Lex22]

Caddy kicked 46 goals last year.

Caddy improved out of sight sure but I think he cashed in via a really good side. He’s not in Wells class, though.

Tigers been incredibly lucky with injuries over the last few years and now the bad run has come. Rance & Riewoldt hard to replace but there should be cover for the Caddy’s and Houli’s of a list,

 

[adammania9]

Does it enter the thought pattern that a player may not be elite, but is critical to our structures? Half our injuries were in the same area of the ground!

These are the same blokes that were trying to tell us Butler and Rioli were critical injuries last season

 

[juss]

I’ve never said otherwise. Just using the arguments Richmond nuffies used last year.

Maybe not you in particular, as I believe injuries are a legitimate excuse as to why a team doesn't perform as well, but many Richmond fans last year didn't seem to acknowledge this in any of the H&A games last year where we had injuries that affected our structure considerably.

You're a good bloke and defending your team as you should. I'm probably not replying to the right person in particular anyway.

I think games are lost because of a bunch of contributing factors, an excuse comes when you take one small contributing factor and use it to attribute the entire reason.

An excuse would be to say we lost yesterday because Houli was out. Or Rance was out. In isolation, that's an excuse. In reality, they are just contributing factors, other strong contributing factors were not tackling well, horrible ball use, Riewoldt getting injured early, getting beaten in the ruck, only playing one ruckman, De Goey had his kicking boots on, etc. etc.

There's never one individual reason that leads to a loss. People always say, because X team was better. Sure, that's true, but there's often multiple reasons why they were better and why on a different day they might not be better. For me that's the difference between looking at the game analytically and just throwing out individual random excuses like it was raining and we aren't used to rain.

 

[juss]

Wells at somewhere close to his best is clearly a few rungs above Houli and Caddy. Strange comment.

He's played 10, 2, 19, 10 and 4 games in his last 5 years though and is now 34 years old. If you want to say Collingwood are missing Wells at his best that's just not accurate, he hasn't been that player for a number of years.

 

[caloschwaby]

I think games are lost because of a bunch of contributing factors, an excuse comes when you take one small contributing factor and use it to attribute the entire reason.

An excuse would be to say we lost yesterday because Houli was out. Or Rance was out. In isolation, that's an excuse. In reality, they are just contributing factors, other strong contributing factors were not tackling well, horrible ball use, Riewoldt getting injured early, getting beaten in the ruck, only playing one ruckman, De Goey had his kicking boots on, etc. etc.

There's never one individual reason that leads to a loss. People always say, because X team was better. Sure, that's true, but there's often multiple reasons why they were better and why on a different day they might not be better. For me that's the difference between looking at the game analytically and just throwing out individual random excuses like it was raining and we aren't used to rain.

Exactly, perfect description.
It's the same way I feel about the GF, attributing the loss solely to the blowing of a 20+ point lead is a pretty one-dimensional way of looking at the game and takes all the credit away from the phenomenal side West Coast were.
Richmond mostly lost the game from ineffective disposals and Collingwood's pressure was too good. Sure, injuries can effect the chemistry of a team, but at the end of the day the loss of one player doesn't lose you a game. Like you said, it's a variety of factors that culminate in one or more areas of the game plan not being able to be executed as intended.

Great chat

 

[juss]

Whoa, whoa! Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater here. Pressure is still king we were still providing it but also dominating possession through surgical transition.

There were times where rich managed to cause turnover through pressure, just don't think was up to usual standard. Rusty perhaps?

I'm not saying pressure is out the window, far from it. If you don't tackle and pressure you will be carved up. I'm saying it's time to stop relying on pressure as your plan A, B and C (Richmond that is). That's what we seem to do. We pressure and grind and eventually break teams down. Until it doesn't work one game, then what?

Game plans don't need to completely change, but they need to evolve. Now I'm sure two weeks ago Hardwick had a gameplan that was going to evolve with the inclusion of Lynch and he now has to change things up due to some key injuries and a shaky start. Maybe pressure should no longer be the "one-wood" as Hardwick calls it? Maybe we need a new strength to our game.

Or as you said, maybe we just played one bad game, as I know every team will at some stage this year. I'm not sure yet, but it looks harder each week right now. Up until about 10 minutes to go I was pleased and surprised because I felt we were far below our best but still very much in the game. Maybe if we had of polished ourselves in the last quarter we could have snatched a win? I think we were only 2 or 3 goals down at stages. So I'm not sure if I am overreacting.

 

[Art OF war]

Richmond really missed Houli's creativity with his run and carry last night. I saw the deficiency in the first quarter. Strange decision not to play Balta after pumping his tyres up a week ago. I was still optimistic for Richmond before tonight's game - it been tempered though. Will struggle to beat GWS away and Port away but a week is a long time in football.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Credit to you for not hiding like some of your pals

2 surprising results in a row hey

Collingwood went out as favourites last night so not unexpected

 

[Bazzar]

I'm sure the Tiges 'In the bag' 2018 premiers Tshirt run are in the back of the cupboard.

At least we didnt buy the Collingwood 2018 souvenir premiership jumper. So embarresing it actually went on sale.

 

[PieLebo87]

Rance and Riewoldt are both better than anyone they lost, so again irrelevant to my point. No other team had the two elite bookends we had. It's not possible for anyone else to lost both a 5x AA and a 3 time Coleman medalist because no other team has that combo.

Gaff and NicNat are big outs. Kennedy and Darling missed a bit too, that’s some quality.

 

[Tiger2709]

Caddy improved out of sight sure but I think he cashed in via a really good side. He’s not in Wells class, though.

Tigers been incredibly lucky with injuries over the last few years and now the bad run has come. Rance & Riewoldt hard to replace but there should be cover for the Caddy’s and Houli’s of a list,

There are but when you lose two forwards and two defenders which are also 2 of our 3 leadership group in the space of two weeks and we will also lose Grimes for stupidity, it makes it hard to adjust quickly, again it is what it is, will be hard this year but may well help us in the future as you're forced to have new players stand up.

 

[Lex22]

There are but when you lose two forwards and two defenders which are also 2 of our 3 leadership group in the space of two weeks and we will also lose Grimes for stupidity, it makes it hard to adjust quickly, again it is what it is, will be hard this year but may well help us in the future as you're forced to have new players stand up.

That’s true, it could be that inadvertent part-rebuild where you get a look at some new faces and go from there. Had to happen eventually.

 

[Lex22]

He's played 10, 2, 19, 10 and 4 games in his last 5 years though and is now 34 years old. If you want to say Collingwood are missing Wells at his best that's just not accurate, he hasn't been that player for a number of years.

That’s not my point and yes even in that time, he’s a classier and better player than Caddy.

 

[juss]

That’s not my point and yes even in that time, he’s a classier and better player than Caddy.

Caddy kicked 46 goals last year. Wells hasn't played more than 10 games at Collingwood. Look at his career, he was great for a decade at North. Since about 2013 hes done absolutely nothing due to injury. Come on man, have at least some acknowledgement of those facts and some common sense. You cant barely play in 5 years get to 34 years old and still be considered better than blokes who kicked 46 goals the year before. What's he better at? Rehab?

 

[Lex22]

Caddy kicked 46 goals last year. Wells hasn't played more than 10 games at Collingwood. Look at his career, he was great for a decade at North. Since about 2013 hes done absolutely nothing due to injury. Come on man, have at least some acknowledgement of those facts and some common sense. You cant barely play in 5 years get to 34 years old and still be considered better than blokes who kicked 46 goals the year before. What's he better at? Rehab?

What’s Caddy played, at best 20 decent games in a good side and Wells was one of North’s most important players for the best part of a decade and has played well at Collingwood IMO. Please.

My original point was that anywhere near his best than yes, he’s just a better player than Caddy, clearly which you brought up the other way around in your original comment.

I’m not arguing on injuries, I’m just saying there’s an argument there for Pies fans to say they’re missing him potentially if the Tigers are carrying on about injured players who aren’t that great.

 

[madmug]

Great to see you still carrying on Cap'n

Just a reciprocation, with tongue firmly planted.

 

[juss]

What’s Caddy played, at best 20 decent games in a good side and Wells was one of North’s most important players for the best part of a decade and has played well at Collingwood IMO. Please.

My original point was that anywhere near his best than yes, he’s just a better player than Caddy, clearly which you brought up the other way around in your original comment.

I’m not arguing on injuries, I’m just saying there’s an argument there for Pies fans to say they’re missing him potentially if the Tigers are carrying on about injured players who aren’t that great.

Was - is the key word there.

Best part of a decade - a decade that ended in 2013.

Has played well at Collingwood - in what his 4 games last year where he averaged 12.5 disposals?

Near his best - he's not close to that anymore, hard to be when you play 45 games in 5 years and are 34 years old.

Injured players who aren't that great - Includes a 3 time Coleman medallist, a 5 time consecutive AA, a bloke who many argue should have won a Norm Smith and another who kicked 46 goals last year and made the AA 40 man squad.

 

[hk89]

I cannot believe this comment from our coach.

You play one ruck against Collingwood our of all teams and then say “two rucks just isn’t who we are”. Only reason why we aren’t a two ruck team is because we don’t have viable options on our list at the moment, not because we are better without it.

Well he didn't say why it wasn't you. Perhaps it is as you say, more about options than what Hardwick thinks is optimal.

 

[Lex22]

Was - is the key word there.

Best part of a decade - a decade that ended in 2013.

Has played well at Collingwood - in what his 4 games last year where he averaged 12.5 disposals?

Near his best - he's not close to that anymore, hard to be when you play 45 games in 5 years and are 34 years old.

Injured players who aren't that great - Includes a 3 time Coleman medallist, a 5 time consecutive AA, a bloke who many argue should have won a Norm Smith and another who kicked 46 goals last year and made the AA 40 man squad.

Why are you getting so worked up about this? I’m clearly referring to Caddy in that last part that you bolded like a hero so thanks for that. Yes you’ve got some injuries now, boo bloody hoo, your finally getting some bad luck in this regard. It happens, that’s footy.

Wells has still played well when he’s got on the park and yes I think he’s much better than Josh Caddy and you don’t. Whatever.

Time to move on.

 

[juss]

Why are you getting so worked up about this? I’m clearly referring to Caddy in that last part that you bolded like a hero so thanks for that. Yes you’ve got some injuries now, boo bloody hoo, your finally getting some bad luck in this regard. It happens, that’s footy.

Wells has still played well when he’s got on the park and yes I think he’s a much better than Josh Caddy and you don’t. Whatever.

Time to move on.

I'm not worked up, I'm pointing out the problems in your argument, because it's a footy forum to debate statements and topics. If you just want to write stuff without debate then publish a blog or something?

 

[Lex22]

I'm not worked up, I'm pointing out the problems in your argument, because it's a footy forum to debate statements and topics. If you just want to write stuff without debate then publish a blog or something?

Whatever dude, this clearly is effecting you. Your original comment had clear flaws (imo) which I pointed out and you haven’t really debated the point anyway, instead have just ranted on with some odd responses that was only partly related to what I was getting at.

Good luck for the rest of the season.

 

[juss]

Whatever dude, this clearly is effecting you. Your original comment had clear flaws (imo) which I pointed out and you haven’t really debated the point anyway, instead have just ranted on with some odd responses that was only partly related to what I was getting at.

Good luck for the rest of the season.

Goodluck

 

[TW Sherrin]

Caddy kicked 46 goals last year.

WHE kicked 42 goals last year...

 

[captain blood 17]

Don't be salty - you got pumped. Deal with it.

I have mate. Stop :straaaaiiinnniiinngg


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[madmug]

At least we didnt buy the Collingwood 2018 souvenir premiership jumper. So embarresing it actually went on sale.

No, you cancelled last years order a week earlier than planned.