Covid-19 Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 4 - Ivermectin doesn't work either.

[Chief]

Continued in Part 5:

Covid-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 5 - Get vaccinated.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/in-focus/covid-19-vaccination-case-surveillance-051121.pdf In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Yep but AstraZeneca was their primary one.

Under 40's are offered the other types, similar advice to ATAGI

 

[Frank Bunn]

It's a good early sign. I'm the most hopeful I've been in some time we're on the way out.

It's a good sign for the UK. They could be approaching herd immunity, whether by vaccines or naturally acquired immunity. They can have some confidence to open up while maintaining some measures under a suppression strategy so that that health services are not overwhelmed.

Australia is a very different story. We have committed to a virtual elimination strategy. Even after a significant percentage of the population has been vaccinated it will take a massive change in mindset to move to a strategy where we no longer count every positive test and view it as a crisis. State Premiers playing politics against each other will further hinder the process.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Try telling that to australians.

What are you on about? The issue with AZ was always the one in a million who will develop blood clots and die.

 

[Malifice]

.
Australia is a very different story. We have committed to a virtual elimination strategy.

No we haven't. I'm sick of this lie being promulgated.

We're sticking to an elimination strategy till a sufficient number of the population get vaccinated (so same as the UK, just without the 120,000 deaths).

 

[Mofra]

No we haven't. I'm sick of this lie being promulgated.

We're sticking to an elimination strategy till a sufficient number of the population get vaccinated (so same as the UK, just without the 120,000 deaths).

Not to mention previous epidemics of diseases such as polio and smallpox weren't eliminated by 'herd immunity'. They were eliminated by vaccines.

 

[Frank Bunn]

We're sticking to an elimination strategy till a sufficient number of the population get vaccinated (so same as the UK, just without the 120,000 deaths).

I agree. I think that is the only way out of this for Australia. Then you could ask, what is the sufficient number of vaccinated before we change tack?

But what I'm saying is that no matter what the vaccination rate it's going to take massive change in mindset to switch from an elimination strategy to one of suppression. And that switch has become more complicated by the politics between the state Premiers.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

No we haven't. I'm sick of this lie being promulgated.

We're sticking to an elimination strategy till a sufficient number of the population get vaccinated (so same as the UK, just without the 120,000 deaths).

And why haven't we reached the magic number of vaccinations yet?

 

[Malifice]

From the notoriously left wing News Corp:

A mum in the United States is urging people to get vaccinated after her 28-year-old son Curt, who believed covid was a hoax, died of the virus.

Curt, who had no pre-existing health issues, was placed on a ventilator and after a two month battle with coronavirus complications that included a collapsed lung and organs shutting down died on May 2. According to Christy, Curt’s last words before being ventilated were: “This is not a hoax, this is real.”

From the same article:

While no vaccine will offer complete protection from an illness, being vaccinated is proven to reduce rates of hospitalisation and death from covid.

Currently 99.5 per cent of covid deaths and 97 per cent of hospitalisations are Americans who are unvaccinated, according to health figures reported by the New York Post.https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/family-urges-vaccine-after-man-who-said-covid-was-hoax-dies/

https://nypost.com/2021/07/26/family-urges-vaccine-after-man-who-said-covid-was-hoax-dies/

Anti-vax mum who lost son to covid regrets not getting vaccine (news.com.au)

And this on the ****ed up nature of anti-vaxxers generally:

“Do you know what’s really f***ed up about the whole anti-vax thing? When the vaccine first rolled out, it was showing to be very effective not only against death and severe illness, but also against infection and transmissibility,” Tulz said in the clip.

“But when not enough people got vaccinated, the virus was allowed to continue to spread among those that weren’t protected and eventually mutated into the Delta variant, which has very quickly become the dominant strain.

When it boiled down to it, she said: “The unvaccinated have let the virus spread unchecked for long enough that it’s mutating into a version where the vaccine is becoming less effective against it.

“And therefore, they’re [anti-vaxxers] proving to themselves that the vaccine doesn’t work, when if they had just gotten it in the first place, we wouldn’t be here,” she said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coron...n/news-story/06a170e74e3a93ea3647bdf8d390378c

 

[Malifice]

I agree. I think that is the only way out of this for Australia. Then you could ask, what is the sufficient number of vaccinated before we change tack?

That's why we're keeping a close eye on the UK.

My initial thoughts were they opened up too soon (the vaccinated numbers were too low) but hopefully I'm proven wrong there.

But what I'm saying is that no matter what the vaccination rate it's going to take massive change in mindset to switch from an elimination strategy to one of suppression. And that switch has become more complicated by the politics between the state Premiers.

Again, this is the fault off the Feds, not the State Premiers.

Health, vaccines and quarantine are Federal responsibility. It's literally in the Constitution. By leaving individual States to sort this mess out and washing their hands of the problem, we've been left with hotel quarantine breaches, multiple outbreaks, and a mixed bag of responses, and bickering between the States.

Some actual leadership from Canberra would be appreciated here.

The only thing the Feds have done really is shut national borders, increase the Dole and implement Jobkeeper (which was botched) and botch the vaccine roll-out.

They not only palmed off responsibilities to the States, they havent exactly covered themselves in glory with their own response here.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

For those who are feeling selfish.....

The answer to "why should i get a vaccine " ?

The risk of dying of covid is probably greater than the risk of dying from vaccine, even if both is very small for you.
People are going to keep making you lock down until enough people are vaccinated. Protest , cry, post on forums, it'll keep happening.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Again, this is the fault off the Feds, not the State Premiers.

Health, vaccines and quarantine are Federal responsibility. It's literally in the Constitution. By leaving individual States to sort this mess out and washing their hands of the problem, we've been left with hotel quarantine breaches, multiple outbreaks, and a mixed bag of responses, and bickering between the States.

Some actual leadership from Canberra would be appreciated here.

The only thing the Feds have done really is shut national borders, increase the Dole and implement Jobkeeper (which was botched) and botch the vaccine roll-out.

They not only palmed off responsibilities to the States, they havent exactly covered themselves in glory with their own response here.

I think it's more complicated than that.

The state Premiers have enjoyed their moment in the sun to exert power and gain significance. They won't willingly give that power back. National Cabinet just encourages them. eg Dan Andrews claimed the four phase plan was his idea. They will all push back on going from an elimination to suppression strategy - not for health reasons, it will cost them votes when the media highlights every death.

The Feds could have challenged the right of the states under the constitution to close their borders to other Australian citizens but they chose not to.

I don't see an easy way out of this.

 

[Crankyhawk]

That's one scenario. The problem is that the data released so far doesn't differentiate to that degree. From the article

Greg Clark, the chairman of Commons science and technology select committee, on Monday night said he would write to Sajid Javid, the Health Secretary, asking him to publish the breakdown on a regular basis following The Telegraph's disclosure.​

​

"If hospitalisations from Covid are a key determinant of how concerned we should be, and how quickly restrictions should be lifted, it's important that the data is not presented in a way that could lead to the wrong conclusions being drawn," he said.​

​

"While some of these people may be being admitted due to Covid, we currently do not know how many. And for those who are not, there is a big distinction between people who are admitted because of Covid and those are in for something else but have Covid in such a mild form that it was not the cause of their hospitalisation."​

Would need a few subcategories
- known covid prior to hospital attendance with probable covid related symptoms needing admit
- known covid with probably unrelated (car accident, flare of other known chronic pain issue)
- covid status not known on arrival, symptoms which could be covid, initial hospital test positive for covid (I would call this cov19 d presentation)
- covid status not known, unrelated symptoms but tested (surveillance etc) and positive on initial (Ed arrival test) I’d call not covid related
- then those whose first test in hospital is negative but subsequently positive would count as covid hospitalisation if develops relevant symptoms or increase in symptoms

That’s how i would structure it but appreciate feedback

 

[Malifice]

The state Premiers have enjoyed their moment in the sun to exert power and gain significance. They won't willingly give that power back.

The State Premiers don't have a say. Again, the Federal power is contained in the Constitution.

Legislative powers of the Parliament
The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:

(ix) quarantine;
(xxiiiA) the provision of maternity allowances, widows' pensions, child endowment, unemployment, pharmaceutical, sickness and hospital benefits, medical and dental services (but not so as to authorize any form of civil conscription), benefits to students and family allowances

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 51 Legislative powers of the Parliament [see Notes 10 and 11] (austlii.edu.au)

The Feds can simply just legislate on any of this, and that overrides any State laws to the extent of any inconsistency. A simple term of 'All State quarantine laws, health directives and stay at home laws are void' would be sufficient.

It's not complicated at all. The Feds have the express power under the Constitution. The State Premiers don't have a say at all, and any High Court challenge by any of them would fail.

 

[Malifice]

And why haven't we reached the magic number of vaccinations yet?

Anti-vaxxers, and a bungled rollout certainly haven't helped.

 

[Crankyhawk]

No we haven't. I'm sick of this lie being promulgated.

We're sticking to an elimination strategy till a sufficient number of the population get vaccinated (so same as the UK, just without the 120,000 deaths).

It’s not quite a lie; while the statements are that we are looking for sufficient vaccination the government still has not defined what it looks like (numbers) they had 4 weeks from the “announcement of the roadmap” to produce modelling - is that nearly done?
Because of the absence of tangible targets the roadmap is dismissed as vague and aspirational while the elimination strategy is what is known and tangible (if increasingly difficult and costly)

 

[parsons nose]

The anti vaxxer crowd are hoping for a revolution. I can‘t see how this will occur given that the army and the government are lock step on this one. And the protesters are armed with sticks and stones.

 

[Malifice]

It’s not quite a lie; while the statements are that we are looking for sufficient vaccination the government still has not defined what it looks like (numbers) they had 4 weeks from the “announcement of the roadmap” to produce modelling - is that nearly done?
Because of the absence of tangible targets the roadmap is dismissed as vague and aspirational while the elimination strategy is what is known and tangible (if increasingly difficult and costly)

They literally mentioned a week or so ago, that they would be setting dates/ targets for re-opening up.

While strict targets are problematic, they need them (and more) to encourage people to get off the couch and get the jab.

If it was me (as PM) I would

1) Set fixed targets for opening up (and legislate them),
2) Implement a 500/400/300/200/100 dollar tax-back/ Medicare offset or Centrelink bonus for the fully vaccinated (with the amount you get declining each month you wait)
3) Implement a massive nationwide program of clinics everywhere, and
4) Orchestrate a massive advertising push to cancel out disinformation about vaccines that is promulgating online.

 

[Evolved1]

Anti-vaxxers, and a bungled rollout certainly haven't helped.

Plus over 60s who won't take AZ.

 

[Malifice]

The anti vaxxer crowd are hoping for a revolution.

I say we * them all of to Nauru, and then release Small Pox, Measles, Yellow Fever, COIVD, Polio, Hepatitis and all the other diseases on the island.

There is a boat that leaves, but you need your shots first.

 

[Hornberger]

If it was me (as PM) I would

2) Implement a 500/400/300/200/100 dollar tax-back/ Medicare offset or Centrelink bonus for the fully vaccinated (with the amount you get declining each month you wait)

I would also go with a Medicare Levy Surcharge for the unvaccinated - anyone not fully vaccinated by 30 June 2021 pays an extra 2% tax and further 1% for each unvaccinated dependant.

Parent with 3 teenage children, get vaccinated or pay an extra 5% in tax to help fund our ICU surge capacity.

 

[Pessimistic]

I am incredibly surprised about what is happening in the UK. They have flipped from rapid growth to rapid decline with no obvious cause. There was no gradual fall in the case growth, no plateau in case numbers.

Today's case are down 50% week-on-week. You don't normally see that rapid of a drop when you are in full lockdown, let on after you have just removed all restrictions.

None of the modelling I have seen predicted this outcome, and this definitely wasn't the governments plan - they were talking about having 100,000 case per day.

‘good weather and getting outside more?

 

[Pessimistic]

Some suggestion people are no longer as likely to get tested, but I haven’t seen any data to confirm or refute that.

‘it’s so easy to get the flow test. Maybe self testing and isolating but not reporting? And of course the fake positives for otherreasons in opposition

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Anti-vaxxers, and a bungled rollout certainly haven't helped.

The zero-Covid strategy is the band-aid for the government's shitty rollout.

 

[Evolved1]

I would also go with a Medicare Levy Surcharge for the unvaccinated - anyone not fully vaccinated by 30 June 2021 pays an extra 2% tax and further 1% for each unvaccinated dependant.

Parent with 3 teenage children, get vaccinated or pay an extra 5% in tax to help fund our ICU surge capacity.

Would you support an additional excise for smokers, alcoholics, and obese people?

 

[Crankyhawk]

They literally mentioned a week or so ago, that they would be setting dates/ targets for re-opening up.

While strict targets are problematic, they need them (and more) to encourage people to get off the couch and get the jab.

If it was me (as PM) I would

1) Set fixed targets for opening up (and legislate them),
2) Implement a 500/400/300/200/100 dollar tax-back/ Medicare offset or Centrelink bonus for the fully vaccinated (with the amount you get declining each month you wait)
3) Implement a massive nationwide program of clinics everywhere, and
4) Orchestrate a massive advertising push to cancel out disinformation about vaccines that is promulgating online.

Ah just checked, they made the announcement on 8/7/21. So they have a little more time (one month deadline set by the relevant minister during interview on pm)