Autopsy Roast & Toast v Saints & Changes For The Death Ride

[LC_15]

I really don't want to go too far into this but we are basically in first year and have 5 wins. On top of that large chunks of time missed for young players, and alot of time going straight to play afl without any apprenticeship in vfl. You all pot yze atm for some stupid reason while thinking your some masterful coach. Severely disappointed in some premiership players not playing well. But somehow that is yes fault. Watching the game you can see players in some cases aren't in their best position. Lots of hyper critical bull sh1t so far on a team still finding identity

 

[tigs2010]

Smillie, Faull, Lalor and Sims will all play next week. We don't want to risk a win.

Wtf are you even on about these days?

 

[ShereKhan]

Yeah he has been a incredibly ordinary player considering his talent. If he has a physical reason for his poor performance, then he shouldn't even be accepting an extra year & have zero idea why we are even offering it.

If he plays in 2026, it better be on a rookie salary. He has been paid over $4,000,000 to play 22 games for 88 marks and kick 35.28 over the past 3 seasons. He fricking owes us a year based on his suspensions alone

He played his first few seasons on massive unders to enable us to retain all of our guns and win another 2 x flags. So quoting the $4m over 3-years is a complete furphy.

His deal was 7-years for a 'ballpark' $6.5m...total. He was critical in 2 x flags. He didn't cost us a single draft pick. He was a deadset bargain and has given absolutely everything he's had for this club.

 

[baazzaa]

A Ross Lyon coached team that is in 'win at all costs' mode is the best in the business at defensive structures and stifling ball movement. If you went into a Saints game where they are in this mode in search of a win, and expected a free flowing great game of footy, then you haven't been watching Ross Lyon coached teams for the last 15-years.

You don't get to blame the other team for low-scoring when you've averaged under 62 points across 21 games. Ross is the god of attack compared to Yze, and pretty much all the worst games this season have involved us for a reason.

Also tired of these 'our 40th best player is injured so there's no reason to expect the experienced team we put on the park to perform well' excuses. At best maybe you bring in Clarke for Green and Lalor for Trezise and we're basically at our best 23 (which is really very experienced by 'rebuilding' standards).

 

[copthat]

Wtf are you even on about these days?

He’s all about the long term future of the club, clearly.

 

[tigerisland]

We essentially got Sam Banks and Robbie Tarrant

6

Robbie Tarrant

Age

36

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

5.1

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.8

4star

MG

284.7

4star

D

15.1

4star

K

11.9

5star

HB

3.3

2star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

359.3

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

for the CCJ trade. Norf. You never let us down

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

For you, yes

 

[Hydatina Physis]

We essentially got Sam Banks and Robbie Tarrant for the CCJ trade. Norf. You never let us down

Wonder what we'll get this year.

 

[Hoos]

Gemma Bastiani

What she look like ?
Is she a goer

 

[ShereKhan]

You don't get to blame the other team for low-scoring when you've averaged under 62 points across 21 games. Ross is the god of attack compared to Yze, and pretty much all the worst games this season have involved us for a reason.

Also tired of these 'our 40th best player is injured so there's no reason to expect the experienced team we put on the park to perform well' excuses. At best maybe you bring in Clarke for Green and Lalor for Trezise and we're basically at our best 23 (which is really very experienced by 'rebuilding' standards).

Why on earth would we expect to be a high scoring team, when our forward line is out least experienced line? Lynch has experience and he's almost retired. Then it's basically all kids, and has been all year.

If we had half a dozen inexperienced kids holding down the backline would you express surprise when we conceded 20+ goals every week? Of course not.

So why are you surprised we have trouble scoring when the forward line is full of kids - and a few of the higher quality options like Lalor, Faull and Lefau weren't even playing on the weekend.

Newsflash - in 24-months when our forward line is a mix of Armstrong, Lefau, Sims, Lalor, Hotton, Faull, Campbell, MRJ and Mansell ...all with 50+ games under their belts....we will be scoring a lot more goals.....

 

[SA_Tiger11]

Lock it in, Armstrong or Hotton to get a rising star nom for this game.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Why on earth would we expect to be a high scoring team, when our forward line is out least experienced line? Lynch has experience and he's almost retired. Then it's basically all kids, and has been all year.

If we had half a dozen inexperienced kids holding down the backline would you express surprise when we conceded 20+ goals every week? Of course not.

So why are you surprised we have trouble scoring when the forward line is full of kids - and a few of the higher quality options like Lalor, Faull and Lefau weren't even playing on the weekend.

Newsflash - in 24-months when our forward line is a mix of Armstrong, Lefau, Sims, Lalor, Hotton, Faull, Campbell, MRJ and Mansell ...all with 50+ games under their belts....we will be scoring a lot more goals.....

Here is an example of the output for a young forward in an experienced forward line, Richmond forwards have played fewer games and only have Lynch to assist.

Jacob Van Rooyen of the Melbourne Demons Career AFL Stats

Jacob Van Rooyen of Melbourne Demons career AFL statistics

www.footywire.com

 

[baazzaa]

Why on earth would we expect to be a high scoring team, when our forward line is out least experienced line? Lynch has experience and he's almost retired. Then it's basically all kids, and has been all year.

If we had half a dozen inexperienced kids holding down the backline would you express surprise when we conceded 20+ goals every week? Of course not.

So why are you surprised we have trouble scoring when the forward line is full of kids - and a few of the higher quality options like Lalor, Faull and Lefau weren't even playing on the weekend.

Newsflash - in 24-months when our forward line is a mix of Armstrong, Lefau, Sims, Lalor, Hotton, Faull, Campbell, MRJ and Mansell ...all with 50+ games under their belts....we will be scoring a lot more goals.....

We also have by far the fewest inside-50s per game. You can't blame that on our midfield/defence being inexperienced because they're extremely experienced.

You can also see how defensively we play in stats like tackles. We're a massive league outlier in terms of low-tackle count. This is because we flood back (forcing opponents to chip the ball), and we also chip the ball around when we have the ball. We also have low clangers despite having poor skills, because we don't take the aggressive option ever.

Of course there's no need to cite all the stats showing we play ultra-defensively, because anyone who's seen any game we've played this year (except maybe the giants one) has seen it first-hand.

 

[Calcium Man]

It is unlikely that Blair and the late Toce (RIP), have missed the mark with what looks like a great haul of first year drafts we have got in at Tigerland.

Not all will make it to our expectations but what we have seen has been very promising albeit many have been hobbled with injuries preseason and during the season.

What is the danger is a coach can leave a lasting imprint on young players good or bad.

We are rising on the fact that we have brought in talented youth, we have not seen a pick that is a bust and these
first rounders are just naturally going to improve. We will naturally rise with that tide.

It is the coach that is the make or break, how we will structure up and how we develop these new players going forward.

Player mismanagement is always a big red flag concerning coaches.



.

You know out the 161 possible games for our top 6 draftees (+ McAuliffe who i personally rate as one our most important young players), Yze has only got 69 games out of them this season (expecting Hotton, Armstrong and Trainor play last 2 games).

How anyone can believe they can judge Yze at this point in his career is beyond me. Mitchell took 2.5 seasons to get the hawks acclimated with his game plan, his win percentage is still below 50%.

We also have by far the fewest inside-50s per game. You can't blame that on our midfield/defence being inexperienced because they're extremely experienced.

You can also see how defensively we play in stats like tackles. We're a massive league outlier in terms of low-tackle count. This is because we flood back (forcing opponents to chip the ball), and we also chip the ball around when we have the ball. We also have low clangers despite having poor skills, because we don't take the aggressive option ever.

Of course there's no need to cite all the stats showing we play ultra-defensively, because anyone who's seen any game we've played this year (except maybe the giants one) has seen it first-hand.

Hardwick also spent the first few years of the rebuild teaching defence. There’s a reason the saying “Defence wins championships” exists.

It takes time to layer a game plan. Go listen to Shedda talk about it when Hardwick first came.

 

[baazzaa]

Hardwick also spent the first few years of the rebuild teaching defence. There’s a reason the saying “Defence wins championships” exists.

It takes time to layer a game plan. Go listen to Shedda talk about it when Hardwick first came.

I don't even have a problem with this, indeed I've defended the chip-mark approach elsewhere (I don't like Yze for othe reasons). I'm merely pointing out the rank hypocrisy in blaming last weekend on Ross Lyon.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

I don't even have a problem with this, indeed I've defended the chip-mark approach elsewhere (I don't like Yze for othe reasons). I'm merely pointing out the rank hypocrisy in blaming last weekend on Ross Lyon.

Last week's loss was due to inability to kick straight.

The opportunities were there but the kicking was awry.

The players need to practise kicking at goal.

 

[Hoos]

The players need to practise kicking at goal.

Kicking to each other a little more might help too.

 

[Stigmata]

I really don't want to go too far into this but we are basically in first year and have 5 wins. On top of that large chunks of time missed for young players, and alot of time going straight to play afl without any apprenticeship in vfl. You all pot yze atm for some stupid reason while thinking your some masterful coach. Severely disappointed in some premiership players not playing well. But somehow that is yes fault. Watching the game you can see players in some cases aren't in their best position. Lots of hyper critical bull sh1t so far on a team still finding identity

West coast got 5 wins last year

 

[LC_15]

West coast got 5 wins last year

And? This is a transition stage and there will be ups and downs. We gave lots of competitive games where we fell away but that indicates a lack of experience. In no way are we going the west oast way. But you guys seem to advocate for the corrosive nature that cost us 37 years out in the wilderness. As a kid grown up 1980 I was 5 so I couldn't enjoy it like 2017. 19 and 20 just as happy. If you want to tear the club down at the moment then go support carlton where those corrosive talent s are encouraged.

 

[LTT]

Norf favorites

**** I hope we spank em

by 1 point.

 

[LTT]

to be fair, we've let every flagship midfielder run a train on us all year. Think Daicos, Bont, Brayshaw, Rozee etc.. the list goes on.

Did those flagship midfielders do it while MacIntosh was tagging them . I remember when we put MacIntosh on Cripps in the first game and Cripps had 19 possessions to half time

 

[tiger_tough]

by 1 point.

100 would be better

 

[Delorean]

Did those flagship midfielders do it while MacIntosh was tagging them . I remember when we put MacIntosh on Cripps in the first game and Cripps had 19 possessions to half time

Poor macca

 

[Burning bright]

You know out the 161 possible games for our top 6 draftees (+ McAuliffe who i personally rate as one our most important young players), Yze has only got 69 games out of them this season (expecting Hotton, Armstrong and Trainor play last 2 games).

How anyone can believe they can judge Yze at this point in his career is beyond me. Mitchell took 2.5 seasons to get the hawks acclimated with his game plan, his win percentage is still below 50%.




Hardwick also spent the first few years of the rebuild teaching defence. There’s a reason the saying “Defence wins championships” exists.

It takes time to layer a game plan. Go listen to Shedda talk about it when Hardwick first came.

It is not beyond one to critically analyse the performance of a coach. There is always a lot of noise but you don’t analyse someone’s performance on extraneous factors such as variables that are outside of the control of the individual such as injuries or poor player form. You form a judgement based on what the individual had dominion of, how he executed it and you also listen to what they say. Does the rhetoric match the reality.

The old motto What you do, do well.

Yze has changed a fair bit from his first year that handball chain link centre corridor game has fallen away into a heavily front half centric game plan which I don’t think he has confidence in by his reaction as Hardwick eviscerated his structure. So if you listen carefully that was a real concern Yze had following the Goldcoast game and leading into the Saints clash. I was very fortunate to be able to attend and watch live the suns game. Had a great vantage point near the coaches and the interactions were very interesting.

Now some people have come to the conclusion based on the use of interchange, player roles and the non injection of the sub as tanking. I hope not because with a young group if they believe tactically the coach is not giving his all to win that is very destructive on many levels.

Maybe Yze is a genius it’s possible and he wanted to stress test his structure and game plan by not trying to assist it.

Maybe, but critically analysing whether it’s an employee, a team, a department or a coach. Take away the noise of the uncontrollable variables and focus on the data that was controllable and how that was prosecuted.

But some prefer rainbow unicorns and hugs which is fair enough each to their own

 

[LC_15]

I don't even have a problem with this, indeed I've defended the chip-mark approach elsewhere (I don't like Yze for othe reasons). I'm merely pointing out the rank hypocrisy in blaming last weekend on Ross Lyon.

Was not Ross 's fault at all. Think both forward line are young. When defense is on top it's an absolute nightmare for young players. The stand rule has done more to slow scoring down, the opposite of what they thought it would do. Coaches need to commit an additional player behind the ball to stop being opened up. The reason why players are now standing outside 5 is that giving up 5 is better than 15 when the faster players attack the mark. Once the ball it turned over, it's just a flat sprint forward. No one ever plays a traditional position on field anymore and we have mess of low scoring snooze fests. Revert to rules from 10 years ago and you will see scoring get healthier.