In the AFL is does. Otherwise Sydney would be on top of the world right now celebrating finishing first on the ladder.
2007-2016 Geelong Cats Vs. Hawthorn Hawks
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cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
- May 11, 2008
- 23,494
- 58,817
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Except the lesser team didn't win that time. Hawthorn did.
It'll be 4 flags each but we have won many more games and H2H is just so ridiculously in our favour.
Pretty obvious who would be better. Actually I already think Geelong are better just didn't perform on a particular day and Hawks benefitted from Geelong outs in 2013.
To put things into perspective, Geelong started the 2007 season 3-3 if I remember correctly. From then on out, they lost 2 regular season games, and one finals game (2008 grand final) over the next two years. Those two losses were the Port Adelaide game where Dom Cas kicked the winner in the last few seconds, and when Collingwood thumped them in 2008. Unprecedented excellence over two years.
Well, if it isn't my nemesis.Just a shame there was no b2b I guess
I'd argue Geelong faced tougher opponents. The Ross Lyon Saints. The Malthouse Pies. Young Hawks.
The Hawks have faced a buffet of diet coke editions. Perhaps Sydney has the creds to hang with the guys above. But Fremantle? Young West Coast? I'm not so sure.
- Apr 3, 2006
- 33,501
- 11,915
- AFL Club
- Geelong
We're talking about comparing teams across a 9 or 10 year period. Picking one game to base the decision on, when one side clearly didn't perform, is not the scientific method.
Your own statement shows you don't believe that was even the best Hawthorn side. You say 'Hawthorn beat Geelong in a single game when they were at their peak, therefore...'
I could then say 'Geelong beat Hawthorn in half a dozen games when they were at their peak, and Geelong were in major decline, nowhere near their best side, therefore Geelong must be better.'
cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
- May 11, 2008
- 23,494
- 58,817
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Unfortunate greatness isn't meausured in home & away games won but premierships. Enough home & away wins are simply a means to an end for great team to reach and win a premiership.
People know who Usain Bolt is because he wins gold medals, not because he qualifies for finals a lot. And before you start about how Usain Bolt would still be the best even if he lost a race tomorrow - that is true. But there's no other recent period men's 100m or 200m sprinter who could beat him in an Olympic gold medal tally.
People know who Usain Bolt is because he wins gold medals, not because he qualifies for finals a lot. And before you start about how Usain Bolt would still be the best even if he lost a race tomorrow - that is true. But there's no other recent period men's 100m or 200m sprinter who could beat him in an Olympic gold medal tally.
- Jun 22, 2008
- 24,580
- 21,276
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Lake wouldn't be sitting on the bench in my side, he'd be on the ground on Tommy. To beat a gorilla, you've got to be a gorilla.
- Apr 3, 2006
- 33,501
- 11,915
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Completely irrelevant to the discussion, but thanks.
cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
- May 11, 2008
- 23,494
- 58,817
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Yep, home & away wins are irrelevant. Along with AA spots too.
I'd say Bolt's WR goes along way towards him being the greatest. Much like our record against you guys. We won 11 games in a row during the period the OP mentioned. 11 games. 11 games straight.
I guess, if you want to keep harping on about only the Premierships count you need to ask yourself would the Cats team at their peak in the period mentioned by the OP win against West Coast, against Freo, against the Swans? Of course they would.
cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
- May 11, 2008
- 23,494
- 58,817
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
What award do they give for winning 11 straight games against a club? I could've sworn it was nothing.
Cats were at their peak in 2008 and lost to the worst of the last 4 Hawthorn premiership teams.
I keep seeing Geelong supporters claim that 07-11 was a strong period for football and that 12-16 has been a weak period. Yet if you look at something that can objectively rate the strengths of sides like The Squiggle ratings it is clear as day that it is the other way around and that Geelong were simply lucky to be one of the few sides peaking during a slump for the rest of the competition.
In 2007 for example the Adelaide Crows were the second strongest team by the Squiggle's reckoning with a form score of 63.0 (compared to Geelong 07's 74.5 and their GF opponent Port with 62.2). In 2013 that form score of 63.0 would've had a team 9th; in 2014, 8th; in 2015, 8th; and this year, 7th.
Same as any 11 games that a team wins against another. 44 points. Every home and away game has 4 Premiership points on the line, awarded to the winner, it's what determines ladder position. The loser receives 0 points. If it's a draw then the teams split the 4 points (2 points each).
I'm glad you've taken an interest in AFL but you should familiarise yourself with the game a little if you're going to comment on a public forum. Suggesting those 11 games didn't matter (or indeed that a H&A game record doesn't matter) because they didn't lead immediately to the awarding of the Premiership cup is infantile.
Wojcinski
Brownlow Medallist
To be fair, even though I'm sure you'll disagree. Port's score is so low because they lost the grand final by 119.
Cats 2011 beats any Hawthorn team over the same period. In fact they did if I recall, something like 13 in a row?
- May 4, 2013
- 6,683
- 17,361
- AFL Club
- Geelong
11, but who's counting.
cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
- May 11, 2008
- 23,494
- 58,817
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
You'd think with such a collection of premiership points you'd have more premierships than Hawthorn over the period. Yet, here we are.
In b4 "it was just one game"
In b4 "VFA (lol) flags"
DrEvil_
Norm Smith Medallist
- Sep 21, 2014
- 9,999
- 22,323
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Or maybe just Eddie McGuire...
cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
- May 11, 2008
- 23,494
- 58,817
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
No no, that's a fair point and I'll concede their score was higher than that prior to the game at a mighty 64.5. Unfortunately that wouldn't have got them within the top 4 (or 5) over 2013-2015.
As explained previously, failing to value H&A game results requires an infantile view of the game.. and you haven't let me down. Maybe you didn't read the OP properly or maybe you don't understand the importance of the games you lost to us during that time period.
How'd you guys go in 2009? You finished 9th, missed the Finals entirely. You missed the 8 by 6 points, those aforementioned Premiership points that you don't appear to understand the value of. We took 8 points off you in 2009. Basically, win those two "meaningless" games against the Cats in 2009 and you have a chance to defend your Premiership.
2010. How'd you guys go? Finished 7th, made the Finals though so that's good. Only missed top 4 and the double chance by... 6 points. Only missed out on 8 points by losing two "meaningless" games to the Cats. Beat us in those "meaningless" games and you get the double chance. Played one Final, lost one Final... to Fremantle.
2011 must be better. We won both H&A games but that didn't matter because you finished top 4. One of those "meaningless" wins in that run of 11 straight though was our Qualifying Final, put us through to a Prelim on the way to winning the Flag. We won the Flag against Collingwood, who'd finished Minor Premiers. You guys got to play your Elimination Final against an Interstate team and beat them to set up a Preliminary Final loss to... Collingwood, a Victorian team, the same team that we then went on to beat in the Grand Final.
But yeah, you guys won a single Final in a 3 year period smack bang in the middle of a period of time that you're trying to say you were the dominant team in the competition. A period of time that you couldn't find a way to win against the team you're trying to say you're better than. There is the 2008 GF though, one that saw two rule changes due to the unsportsmanlike way that the Hawks went about it on the day (taking the man out of the play after he'd disposed of the ball and rushing behinds). That's a pretty flimsy hook on which to hang your hat.
And of course, then there's your last 4 Grand Final appearances for the last 3 Flags, all against Interstate teams
cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
- May 11, 2008
- 23,494
- 58,817
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Hahaha what a melt and a half. And yet it still doesn't change the fact that 4 flags all (except for maybe one) against relatively strong opposition are better than 3 where only 1 was against strong (yet prone to getting the wobbles) opposition and the other 2 were achieved in some of the weakest years of modern football.As explained previously, failing to value H&A game results requires an infantile view of the game.. and you haven't let me down. Maybe you didn't read the OP properly or maybe you don't understand the importance of the games you lost to us during that time period.
How'd you guys go in 2009? You finished 9th, missed the Finals entirely. You missed the 8 by 6 points, those aforementioned Premiership points that you don't appear to understand the value of. We took 8 points off you in 2009. Basically, win those two "meaningless" games against the Cats in 2009 and you have a chance to defend your Premiership.
2010. How'd you guys go? Finished 7th, made the Finals though so that's good. Only missed top 4 and the double chance by... 6 points. Only missed out on 8 points by losing two "meaningless" games to the Cats. Beat us in those "meaningless" games and you get the double chance. Played one Final, lost one Final... to Fremantle.
2011 must be better. We won both H&A games but that didn't matter because you finished top 4. One of those "meaningless" wins in that run of 11 straight though was our Qualifying Final, put us through to a Prelim on the way to winning the Flag. We won the Flag against Collingwood, who'd finished Minor Premiers. You guys got to play your Elimination Final against an Interstate team and beat them to set up a Preliminary Final loss to... Collingwood, a Victorian team, the same team that we then went on to beat in the Grand Final.
But yeah, you guys won a single Final in a 3 year period smack bang in the middle of a period of time that you're trying to say you were the dominant team in the competition. A period of time that you couldn't find a way to win against the team you're trying to say you're better than. There is the 2008 GF though, one that saw two rule changes due to the unsportsmanlike way that the Hawks went about it on the day (taking the man out of the play after he'd disposed of the ball and rushing behinds). That's a pretty flimsy hook on which to hang your hat.
And of course, then there's your last 4 Grand Final appearances for the last 3 Flags, all against Interstate teams
There's no melt. Accusing people of melting when unable to respond to their argument is basically a variation on Godwin's Law.
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