Mega Thread 2012 List Management thread

[rhaz]

Pretty sure he is contracted anyway, but interesting to note that Neeld specifically mentioned Fitzpatrick in his wednesday press conference when talking about our scoring potency going forward (along with getting Clark and Jurrah back). Good show of faith.

It's a fairly long presser by the way, not a bad watch if you're bored (its on the MFC website). Bit of info about Mark's planning for the offseason/next year.

 

[Watt a gun!]

People need to relax. The list is in nowhere near as bad a shape as you would believe. For starters, delisting any highly touted players from the Bailey era is just foolish. Guys who have been in the system for 3/4 years and haven't cemented a spot shouldn't be cut. Especially with so many duds and list cloggers ahead of them. The reality is that very few 18-21yo perform outstandingly well in shit teams.

IMO guys who will/should be cut:
Green: (retired)
Moloney: Try to trade him if there is a bit of interest. If not we will probably lose him to the FA
Bate: Surely his time is up.
Bennell: Out of contract, ACL injury and has shown f*** all at his time at the club. Cut, cut, cut.
Petterd: A player I personally like but clearly Neeld sees it differently. Doesn't help that we have an abundance of his type of medium half forwards. Could have some value in a trade.
Davis: Haven't seen a whole heap of him. 2 years and no senior footy, with plenty of KPD on our list already you would think he would be cut to make way for some new midfield talent.

Guys who could easily be cut
Joel MacDonald: Simply why keep him on the list? What does he offer that someone like Strauss or Dunn can't? Already with Grimes, Watts, Dunn, Strauss, Garland and Nicho (even Tappy) all capable of playing in his position I can't see any point in keeping him on the senior list. Might be worth cutting him and redrafting him as a rookie (ie Clancee Pearce at Freo last year)
Clint Bartram: I realize he was in the leadership group last year and is a very popular man down at the club but if he fails to recover from this knee ailment then there is no way we can justify holding a player with such limited talent on our main list. Willing to be proved wrong on this but if his knee is as bad as some reports suggest, and this latest surgery hasn't gone well then must surely be in line for the chop.
Jurrah: This is far less likely but still possible. Player 1 game this year, struggled with injury and has had a host of off field dilemmas. Neeld's brutal axing of Wonaeamirri is what makes me think this is a remote possibility. Neeld has made no secret of his preference for workhorse players rather than guys with flair and talent.

Promotions:
Magner, Nicholson. No brainers.

Guys who should be kept for now:
Gysberts: Fitness is his issue. Needs to improve that dramatically. Another preseason should help. Could be next years Blease.
Strauss: Recovering from a badly broken tib/fib. Players take at least 2 years to FULLY recover, not just physically recover, from an injury like that. The few games he has had this year will do him the world of good. A full preseason and he will be an established best 22 player in the back pocket next year.
Davey: Injuries derailed his season. Does that mean he should be cut? Only played a few games early in the year, and I think we can all agree they were shit. BUT so was everyone else. With the exception of Jones, no one played well in those games. Surely Aaron would have got better in the second half of the season and is definitely worth a spot next year. Plus he is still under contract for next year.
Morton: Weigh it up. What are they pros and cons of trading/cutting Cale. We cut him we get nothing, we trade him we get what? A fourth rounder? Third? His stock is that low atm its really not worth it. He is under contract until the end of 2013 anyway so give him another year to prove his worth and play him in a position that suits him. He has a very clear set of skills, there are things he can do, and do well, and there are things that just don't suit him. Tagging Gary Ablett is one example. Bailey appeared to get the best out of him on the wing, I would suggest Neeld do likewise. Play him in the centre and he will continue to be frustratingly useless.
Dunn: Keep. Has been great in the second half of the year. Found his spot across half back.
Jared Rivers: Cannot believe he hasn't been resigned. Riv has been a rock at the back for years and is still the second best defender on our list. It is him not Garland who should be marshalling the boys at the back. Reads the play better and is a better intercept mark than anyone else on our list. Would be madness to cut him.
Couch: Keep him on the rookie list for now. I'm not sold he has shown definitively he has enough to make it at AFL level.

 

[Eth]

Eth's List Management
(contains less hindsight crap than the other self-proclaimed List Manager)

I'll hopefully keep this regularly updated with delistments and draftees and whatnot, because as you can see below, I haven't gone through the entire list, or at least not in the same detail. It's a work in progress and with draft camp testing and trade winds yet to really arise, it's difficult to tell where the entire squad will sit drawing closer to the end of the year.

Squad

Okay, the playing squad currently sits at 38, plus the seven rookies. Obviously we're going to have a minimum of three draft picks, likely six (this will accommodate picks 3, 4, 13, 25, 44 plus a rookie upgrade - I'll get to that later) which means culling six players. It's tough...

Also, it’s worth noting our contract thread on The Change Rooms - it's a simple list of when everybody's contract expires. I was going to include Davey in the delist category, and of course I still can, but that would involve a payout on his contract for next year and Melbourne wouldn't do that.

2 Nathan Jones - keep, for obvious reasons.
3 Clint Bartram - keep, but his apparent degenerative knee may not come as good as we hope, although for now I'll believe that that's unlikely.
4 Jack Watts - keep.
5 Jordan Gysberts - keep.
6 Matthew Bate - delist, on the outer and whenever he does crack a game in the firsts, while his impact is okay, it's not seeing any improvement or any worth from the pick we invested years back. I also
7 Jamie Bennell - delist.
8 James Frawley - keep.
9 Jack Trengove © - keep.
10 Cale Morton - borderline.
11 Mitch Clark - keep.
12 Colin Sylvia - keep.
13 Jordie McKenzie - keep.
14 Lynden Dunn - keep.
15 Ricky Petterd - delist, I hate to say it and I'll hate to see it, but room has to be made.
16 Jack Grimes (c) - keep, he's our captain, likely second in the Bluey, all that.
18 Brad Green (vet) - retired, so automatically counts as one off the list.
19 James Strauss - borderline, has impressed enough but if there's a decent pick being offered around, I would think it'd be accepted.
20 Colin Garland - keep.
21 Lucas Cook - keep.
22 Brent Moloney - borderline, I still believe he wants to be at the club, and I think he deserves a chance to redeem himself.
24 Liam Jurrah - keep, suggestions to re-rookie Liam given both his and the club's commitment to each other are ridiculous, especially when you factor in that a player of his obvious talent (35 goals in 81 games) would be snapped up in the national draft.
25 Tom McDonald - keep.
27 Jared Rivers - keep.
28 Joel Macdonald - keep, it’s too easy to whip Joel and point the finger at him. He’s been good this year, his disposal is okay, his decision making isn’t as okay but his commitment is fantastic.
30 James Sellar - keep.
34 Stefan Martin - keep.
35 Luke Tapscott - keep.
36 Aaron Davey - keep, contracted until next year which will be when he can prove he deserves another one.
37 Max Gawn - keep.
38 Jeremy Howe - keep.
39 Neville Jetta - delist, he had a good run but not so much with injury.
40 Mark Jamar - keep.
41 Troy Davis - borderline, I haven't looked too greatly into his VFL form, but we have a genuine surplus of key defenders at the moment, and I'm not sure keeping him is such a necessity.
42 Jake Spencer - keep.
43 Rory Taggert - keep.
44 Rohan Bail - keep.
46 Josh Tynan - keep.
48 Jack Fitzpatrick - keep.

26 Daniel Nicholson - upgrade, through our last draft pick.
32 Michael Evans - delist, tough call but he can’t get a game.
45 Kelvin Lawrence - delist, well...obviously, he’s gone already.
47 Tom Couch - retain, worth another year.
49 James Magner - retain, second in line for an upgrade but I'd rather have that extra national draft pick at this point.
50 Jai Sheahan - retain.
51 Leigh Williams - retain.

That leaves the delistees at Brad Green, Matthew Bate, Jamie Bennell, Ricky Petterd, Neville Jetta and one of Cale Morton/Brent Moloney/James Strauss, and the rookie delistments at Michael Evans and Kelvin Lawrence.

The Draft

Now, we have picks three, four (first-round compensation), 13 (mid-first-round compensation), 26, 45 and 64. Thought I'd keep that noted with the activation of many different compensation picks this year affecting the order in different ways.

Here, I'll list who I ideally want and brief reasons why, but more in-depth info can be found on the drafts and trading board (in particular, Knightmare's phantom draft).

Potential Draftees
Pick 3
Jack Viney: Quite a standard pick. Tough at it, inside, hard, ball-winning midfielder, comparable to Selwood in contested ability at a similar age. Will be a first-round pick if Gold Coast or GWS bid with either of picks one or two.
Jimmy Toumpas: Just such a classy ball user which is something we genuinely lack. Leads from the front and is the type of player you'd expect can have that game-changing clearance or goal. Very much an all-round inside and outside midfielder that can do everything and do them well.
Oliver Wines: One of the best contested players in the

Pick 4
Jimmy Toumpas: as above, if Jack Viney is selected with pick three.
Oliver Wines: as above, if Jack Viney is not selected with pick three.

Ideally, if Viney goes at 3, it's Viney/Toumpas. If not, it's Toumpas/Wines. This is of course assuming that Melbourne don't make a play for Jack Martin (or less likely Jesse Hogan) in the mini-draft which if GWS accept then becomes Viney/Martin or Toumpas/Martin.

Pick 13
Ben Kennedy
Troy Menzel
Dayle Garlett
Jake Stringer
Nick Vlastuin

Pick 26
Jack Viney: As discussed above, could potentially go in the second round.
Sam Colquhoun: He's dropped off the radar a bit recently, but he's your standard offensive half back in the Heath Shaw mould, I reckon. He sets up plays and has a long, penetrating and accurate boot. While we do have Daniel Nicholson, James Strauss and less so Jack Grimes who can play in the back half and set up attacks from defence, I think that they all have the potential to rotate through the midfield as well. Good kicking and good decision making's something Melbourne lacks.

Pick 45
Nathan Hrovat
Matthew McDonough

Pick 64
Daniel Nicholson: rookie upgrade.

 

[Tulip]

My take on this: Brodie Grundy is a lock if he's there at 3, this will probably also mean adios Jake Spencer as well as get a move on Max Gawn because you've got 3 maybe 4 blokes in front of you!

Absolute lunacy to recruit Grundy with Gawn developing and Fitz finally cracking a game after super form in the two's.

We need MIDFIELDERS! Why sign Jamar for 3 years, and have Martin, Fitzy, Sellar, Gawn and Spencer on the list?

Tough to fit much more than Jamar and Clark into the side, Martin gets in for versatility. Sellar pending the opponent (no gorilla, no Sellar).

 

[demon_dayz_dawning]

people asking for Joel MacDonald to be delisted quite simply have no brain.

He is 27, has 130 odd game of experience, is tough as nails and is in career best form.

He wont be going anywhere and rightly so.

 

[Tulip]

Can see Stef going to Collingwood, but don't want it!

 

[LeverPuller]

How the heck is Strauss borderline? He had no preseason due to still recovering from the break as well as losing confidence and the like. He'd cemented himself pre-break too.

 

[Eth]

How the heck is Strauss borderline? He had no preseason due to still recovering from the break as well as losing confidence and the like. He'd cemented himself pre-break too.

Honestly, the other person I considered with that was Morton but I don't want to see him go...yet. And of course, Moloney's future is still up in the air, which removes that borderline completely.

It's pretty tough looking for delistment candidates, there's about four or five that look likely and then another four or five that could very well not see another pre-season with Melbourne.

Mind you, I'm still going through it.

 

[PureFooty]

people asking for Joel MacDonald to be delisted quite simply have no brain.

He is 27, has 130 odd game of experience, is tough as nails and is in career best form.

He wont be going anywhere and rightly so.

You've completely undone your argument by saying that. If he's in career best form then he should at best be a VFL player. One of my least favourite players at the club, hasn't offered a lot whilst being recruited. Terrible kick, loses 85% of contests one-on-one, gives away undiscipline free kicks. Yes, he is tough but it doesn't quite cut it these days.

 

[PureFooty]

Absolute lunacy to recruit Grundy with Gawn developing and Fitz finally cracking a game after super form in the two's.

We need MIDFIELDERS! Why sign Jamar for 3 years, and have Martin, Fitzy, Sellar, Gawn and Spencer on the list?

Tough to fit much more than Jamar and Clark into the side, Martin gets in for versatility. Sellar pending the opponent (no gorilla, no Sellar).

I completely agreed with you no less that a week ago. And I won't be complaining if we don't get him, it just seems like we will pick him up. Gawn and Fitzy for all we know will be Brad Miller's (VFL stars, AFL if only's) The kid is a certified gem. Ideally, Clark at Full-Forward, Jamar in the Ruck, if we picked up Grundy he'd play Forward and switch with Jamar, and stef martin could be used down back (remember when he played as a defender, he actually looked extrememly promising). Yes, we'd still have Gawn, fitzy and Sellar on the list but you've got to have some depth and some competition amongst players so that they are vying for a spot.
Again though, I would be completely fine if we went 3 gun mids with our first 4 picks (one being viney) and would probably use another as part of a trade. Your logic is completely justified.

 

[LeverPuller]

Unrelated, but PureFooty, that avatar pic is simply fantastic.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

You've completely undone your argument by saying that. If he's in career best form then he should at best be a VFL player. One of my least favourite players at the club, hasn't offered a lot whilst being recruited. Terrible kick, loses 85% of contests one-on-one, gives away undiscipline free kicks. Yes, he is tough but it doesn't quite cut it these days.

Can't agree with you on this, he regularly wins one on ones.

Isn't a good kick, but he hardly gifts goals to the opposition.

Good, well-rounded defender IMO.

 

[PureFooty]

Unrelated, but PureFooty, that avatar pic is simply fantastic.

I like to see it as a truly great memento of the clubs finest number 10

 

[PureFooty]

Can't agree with you on this, he regularly wins one on ones.

Isn't a good kick, but he hardly gifts goals to the opposition.

Good, well-rounded defender IMO.

He panicks more than a fat kid to an empty pantry when one-on-one. But that's just my opinion, perhaps I'm being too harsh, but apart from being 'hard at it' i just don't know what he offers to the team. I think it is just that he always seems to do too much when he has the ball. Perhaps he doesn't know his limitations.
Edit: panics

 

[Rudeurrection]

Can't agree with you on this, he regularly wins one on ones.

Isn't a good kick, but he hardly gifts goals to the opposition.

Good, well-rounded defender IMO.

We dont have a bad player on our list, do we, Barry ?

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

We dont have a bad player on our list, do we, Barry ?

Ask Neeld if he thinks Macdonald's a shit player.

He's a role player - should get another contract before the likes of Bennell.

 

[Blackas87]

41 Troy Davis - borderline, I haven't looked too greatly into his VFL form, but we have a genuine surplus of key defenders at the moment, and I'm not sure keeping him is such a necessity.

Davis: Haven't seen a whole heap of him. 2 years and no senior footy, with plenty of KPD on our list already you would think he would be cut to make way for some new midfield talent.

Have noticed a few people saying similar things about Davis, I have seen a little of him in the VFL and he has been very impressive, was named an emergency a couple of times this year so he nearly broke into the side, he is going to be a very good player in a few years time but ATM there isn't enough spots for all our key defenders, being a late draft pick that hasn't played a game would hold no value on the trade table so we would basically get nothing in return.

On the other hand Colin Garland would hold some value, plenty of experience that clubs would want, for me he hasn't set the world on fire that I thought he would a couple of years back but still is a solid player, we could trade Garland to someone looking for a key defender like Carlton for maybe David Ellard and then that frees up a spot for Troy Davis to come into the side.

 

[SPC 98]

You've completely undone your argument by saying that. If he's in career best form then he should at best be a VFL player. One of my least favourite players at the club, hasn't offered a lot whilst being recruited. Terrible kick, loses 85% of contests one-on-one, gives away undiscipline free kicks. Yes, he is tough but it doesn't quite cut it these days.

Got to have depth players... Cant just have a list of 22.. He can fill a spot when he is not the 2nd or 3rd defender and being a young list still need some big bodies around the joint!

 

[Rudeurrection]

Ask Neeld if he thinks Macdonald's a shit player.

He's a role player - should get another contract before the likes of Bennell.

What does that mean? lol


Point being he isnt good player, players like MacDonald dont get games in good teams. Just cause your getting a game under Neeld now means entirely jack shit. Do you honestly believe he wants Joel in our best side? laughable.

We are Melbourne, we arent Hawthorn, Collingwood or Geelong, we are shit, simple, the ladder says so. And we are shit because players such as Joel MacDonald are in our 22.

The quicker you look at the ladder the better.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Joel's definitely in our best 22 this season - and yeah, at a finals club he'd probably be a 10 game a season back up player.

I wouldn't be de-listing someone who, if he isn't best 22 next year, will be a good backup player.

 

[Supermercado]

I'm banking on a ten player massacre. Not saying I want all these guys to go but players I like are going to get caught in the cross-fire.

These ones I'd put in a multi...
Retired - Green
Free agent - Moloney
Delisted rookies - Lawrence, Evans
Delisted senior list - Bate, Bennell, Petterd

The other three to come from: Cook, Davis, Dunn, Jetta, Macdonald, Spencer (delist and re-rookie?) and Fitzpatrick.

Plus Rivers as a possible FA and Gysberts as a possible trade.

 

[RandB]

FFS, there should be a blanket ban on "let's rookie Player X to free up a spot for the ND" calls. IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT PEOPLE. We would have to delist Jurrah, then he would have to apply for the National Draft (providing he still wanted to), then he would have to get through the ENTIRE draft and into the rookie draft before we could take him again. I know he seems like a risky prospect with the court case and everything, but it's equally risky to assume that every other club would be scared off by an amazingly talented player with a shaky trial hanging over his head.

This is all correct.

To add to this he also becomes a free agent the moment we delist him. There are 2 subsequent FA windows after the first major one - he could accept any coin a club is willing to risk. This goes for any delisted senior player if my understanding of the rules is correct.

A player has served seven seasons or fewer of AFL football at one club, and has been delisted by his club.
The player is a free agent and is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.
The player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.
The player can move AUTOMATICALLY to the new club of his choice.
His original club, which chose to delist him, does not receive any compensation pick for the loss of the player.

 

[Sunny_]

We've got some rumours on our board that Rischitelli could be on his way to the Demons through a trade. Nothing in media yet, but some of our posters with some sources think it could be happening.

Would be surprised if he went myself, being our deputy vice Captain, but what would you guys want for him? Had a horror 2012 with injury, but his 2011 was pretty good.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Would love that - would probably part with pick 13 for him.

 

[demon_dayz_dawning]

Would love that - would probably part with pick 13 for him.

yeah lets give up pick 13 for an injured, one dimensional 27 year old who Gold Coast dont even want.

Surely you are kidding.