Training 2017/2018 Pre-season Thread

[1970crow]

Will probably field a slower side in 2018

Slower because Cameron for Gooch, and ideally we switch out one of our outside players for Gibbs (who I think is slower the then all of Atkins/Mackay/Seedman/Smith) which will pay off for being a better side. It won't be by much though unless injuries destroy one or two players.

Otten and Lever's replacements are likely to have mire speed. Much more in Otten's case.

 

[Ramify]

Good to hear Francou on fiveeaa mention Knight as one who has stood out to him

Think Francou is exactly the personality type to get the best out of Knight(and a few other rough diamonds on our list) and is exactly the type that has been missing from our coaching panel a long time.

You need a rough mentor for rough players. We have been fixated on "professionalism" "elite standards" and "elite athleticism" and clean shavedness for too long now. This appointment excites me greatly and I expect a lift from a fair few of our lesser lights and some of our stalwarts to boot.
I predict career best years from old timer Tex especially. On the flip side, JJ may have any self confidence he had crushed out of him if he doesnt buy into what Josh is selling.

Exciting times. Would have loved Basset as our backline coach but I dont know if any side has enough ego space for him on top of who we already have.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Will probably field a slower side in 2018

Slower because Cameron for Gooch, and ideally we switch out one of our outside players for Gibbs (who I think is slower the then all of Atkins/Mackay/Seedman/Smith) which will pay off for being a better side. It won't be by much though unless injuries destroy one or two players.

Not so sure we will be slower.

Compared to the grand final side, in terms of speed:

Doedee > Lever
Milera > Mackay
Gibbs = Atkins
Hampton = Seedsmam
Gallucci < Cameron
McGovern > Otten

Backline should be quicker (even if you include Smith as main stay), with Doedee quicker than Lever.

Midfield probably similar.

Forward line quicker than grand final side, but slightly slower if you assume Gov as a best 22, but don't lose much with Gallucci replacing CC.

It is important we get the balance right, which we didn't grand final day.

 

[Redleg Crow]

That is a painful list to read.

Two of the six players you've highlighted as defying odds to become "successful" are Jarrad Grant and Matthew Lobbe too. Yuck.

Yeah, it'd be interesting to do it for later picks especially given how few games our picks from the past 2 years have played

 

[Mego Red]

The bays were lucky this year when I went Doedees turnovers cost adelaide the game I was pretty happy about it though


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Well, you would be - though I don't for a second think this occurred.

You hate Doedee and would rather the Crows lost.

Your blind obsession and hatred is pathetic.

 

[Mego Red]

The bays were lucky this year when I went Doedees turnovers cost adelaide the game I was pretty happy about it though


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I know I've already replied to this, but reading it again - you are such a low campaigner.

 

[Golumless]

Not so sure we will be slower.

Compared to the grand final side, in terms of speed:

Doedee > Lever
Milera > Mackay
Gibbs = Atkins
Hampton = Seedsmam
Gallucci < Cameron
McGovern > Otten

Backline should be quicker (even if you include Smith as main stay), with Doedee quicker than Lever.

Midfield probably similar.

Forward line quicker than grand final side, but slightly slower if you assume Gov as a best 22, but don't lose much with Gallucci replacing CC.

It is important we get the balance right, which we didn't grand final day.

I'd be very surprised if Hampton played round 1, seeing he is in no mans land (he is up against the golden child in Milera for game time this season, and Greenwood has taken what we were expecting him to do midfield wise), and even more surprised if Atkins get dropped seeing he is currently our best outside midfielder with Smith injured.

With speed though, the drop of a very electric player in Cameron (whilst Gooch is no slouch) will make us seem slower despite small incremental increases elsewhere.

 

[marty36]

I know I've already replied to this, but reading it again - you are such a low campaigner.

Mate I’m A bay supporter aswell and I was at the game you wouldn’t have been


As for a campaigner do you call the JJ Otten Douglas Mackay baggers that aswell




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[ad victoriam]

aaa

Mate I’m A bay supporter aswell and I was at the game you wouldn’t have been


As for a campaigner do you call the JJ Otten Douglas Mackay baggers that aswell




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Marty Doedee had a bad game, but not for his turnovers, PS inside football got that one wrong, he only had 16 disposals 11 kicks, 7 effective kicks 2 ineffective to 2 on 1 contest and 2 shockers.
His problem in that game was forced into the number 1 experienced defenders role and tried too hard to be everywhere, when Hartigan went down injured. and the back line was basically made up with top up players.

Edit, the Crows had 8 top ups playing that day

 

[Jeffcrowe]

How do you see the side's pace overall, compared to last year ?

Depends on selection and how we structure up

Bit slow overall so I think we need Galluci Milera and Seedsman to have good years

Defence looks quick enough with only doubt the running half back

 

[1970crow]

I'd be very surprised if Hampton played round 1, seeing he is in no mans land (he is up against the golden child in Milera for game time this season, and Greenwood has taken what we were expecting him to do midfield wise), and even more surprised if Atkins get dropped seeing he is currently our best outside midfielder with Smith injured.

With speed though, the drop of a very electric player in Cameron (whilst Gooch is no slouch) will make us seem slower despite small incremental increases elsewhere.

I reckon Greenwood might be pushing to be fit for round 1.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Mate I’m A bay supporter aswell and I was at the game you wouldn’t have been

As for a campaigner do you call the JJ Otten Douglas Mackay baggers that aswell

He calls us much worse things

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I reckon Greenwood might be pushing to be fit for round 1.

Be mad to play him until his endurance is up to the level of playing >60 % game time

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Not so sure we will be slower.

Compared to the grand final side, in terms of speed:

Doedee > Lever
Milera > Mackay
Gibbs = Atkins
Hampton = Seedsmam
Gallucci < Cameron
McGovern > Otten

Backline should be quicker (even if you include Smith as main stay), with Doedee quicker than Lever.

Midfield probably similar.

Forward line quicker than grand final side, but slightly slower if you assume Gov as a best 22, but don't lose much with Gallucci replacing CC.

It is important we get the balance right, which we didn't grand final day.

there is no way Hampton plays before Atkins

Atkins has so many more runs on board than Hampton and his fitness is going to the next level each year . He's got further improvement to come whereas Hampton looks to be a perennial fringe player

 

[Jeffcrowe]

It's an interesting clash we have here. On one side we have Vader who never predicts anything that goes against the odds, while on the other we have Wayne who relies entirely on instinct instead. I'm not sure that we could find two more diametrically opposed posters when it comes to assessing talent.

So don't expect them to agree any time soon.

I'll take Wayne over Vader

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I did use the word yet.
I don't really see the skills and decision making that you do though, if anything he often looks rushed and panicky and rarely if ever goes into a contest.
He has time to sort this out so no i don't believe he's the finished product. But he's a ways off

If there is one thing I can say re Milera is that he never looks rushed and panicked

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I used CEY as an example because Rendell came out and explicitly said that CEY was a project player, and that he would take a good 4-5 years at lest before he thought CEY would start to have an impact.

And that’s pretty much what happened.

So again, Doedee taking a little longer doesn’t phase me like it has some others.

Doedee is a competitor and has an elite trait ( intercept marking )

Both these things will take him further than most

Just needs an injury free run now , which is the thing he hasn't had yet

 

[MRB37]

Gibbs might not be quick, but he'll get the ball moving quickly. There's more to speed than just how fast you can run.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Gibbs might not be quick, but he'll get the ball moving quickly. There's more to speed than just how fast you can run.

I think the most important speed now is speed forward of centre to pressure half backs

Scores from turnovers are so high these days and running half backs with good ball use are the keys to this

Richmonds model while not perfect and you wouldn't want to copy it exactly still has some very good things to look it . Pressure the half backs with speedy pressure applying players , hence why I think Cameron is a big loss and why we may need to look closely at our forward structure and also hope Galluci can step up in Cameron's role

 

[GreyCrow]

Yeah, it'd be interesting to do it for later picks especially given how few games our picks from the past 2 years have played

Picks 40-60 have been good not so good for us from memory.

2004 40 Ivan Maric 77
56 Chris Knights 96

2005 48 Alan Obst 0

2006 48 David MacKay Adelaide 185

2007 58 Tony Armstrong 14

2008 44 Rory Sloane Adelaide 165
60 Thomas Lee 0

2009 45 Sam Shaw 24

2010 no picks in this range J Lyon pick 61

2011 41 Mitchell Grigg 20
46 Nicholas Joyce 0

2012 No picks in this range

2013 46 Riley Knight Adelaide 31

2014 43 Mitch McGovern Adelaide 36
58 Harry Dear Adelaide 0

Others too soon to rate

 

[DD#23]

Gibbs might not be quick, but he'll get the ball moving quickly. There's more to speed than just how fast you can run.

I forgot we had Gibbs.

that ought to be good.

 

[kulak]

Well, you would be - though I don't for a second think this occurred.

You hate Doedee and would rather the Crows lost.

Your blind obsession and hatred is pathetic.

Your blind hatred of Marty means you read his post and assume he meant he was happy to see Doedee and the AFC fail - rather than that he was happy to see his SANFL team win

How frequently do you let your hatred of someone frame your perception of everything they say and do? Fairly often I suspect...

 

[dylan123]

It's amazing how things have changed in just the space of 5 odd years, go back and we had plenty of training reports and a lot more informative articles coming out. From what I read on here I could get a real sense of who was set for a big season, the changes that we were going to see and who might struggle due to injuries/disappointing pre season. Fast forward to now and I've just breezed through 20-30 odd pages to find out Milera is training off half back with Gallucci and Knights potentially impressing, AKA sfa.

Can't wait for the season to be back again so we have some real stuff in front of us as the pre season is so much more painful these days.

 

[Golumless]

Picks 40-60 have been good not so good for us from memory.

2004 40 Ivan Maric 77
56 Chris Knights 96

2005 48 Alan Obst 0

2006 48 David MacKay Adelaide 185

2007 58 Tony Armstrong 14

2008 44 Rory Sloane Adelaide 165
60 Thomas Lee 0

2009 45 Sam Shaw 24

2010 no picks in this range J Lyon pick 61

2011 41 Mitchell Grigg 20
46 Nicholas Joyce 0

2012 No picks in this range

2013 46 Riley Knight Adelaide 31

2014 43 Mitch McGovern Adelaide 36
58 Harry Dear Adelaide 0

Others too soon to rate

Considering we are at the speculative point of the draft, that is a damn solid strike rate at this point.

 

[Golumless]

I posted this elsewhere, and it seems appropriate to re-post. Here's the list of top 20 picks since 2005 who played fewer than 10 games in their first two seasons. Yes a few come good (Tom Lynch, Robbie Tarrant). Most don't. Now yes Doedee can be one of the exceptions because of [insert reason] but it is not an easy task.

View attachment 450564

It also is why those wanting Francis need to come up with [insert reason] why he has not been good enough in the first two years but will come good. And the reality is there would have been many [inset reasons] for all of these players - "needs to build his tank/strength" "needs a couple good pre-seasons" etc

The point is not that such players cannot come good, but you need to come up with reasons why they have not - eg Harry Mckay - injury, Tim Broomhead - sickness and injury, Tom Lynch - playing for a top side that didn't need him.

And FWIW, I maintain that this is the make or break year for Doedee. He might not be in the starting 22 in Rd1, but if he does not play a stack of game this year, I think we need to start talking about him being a bust. At a certain point all the "oh he is a late starter to the game" talk becomes talk and he needs to show he is good enough. Again I am not saying he will be a bust - I do actually think he will play a lot this year, and I can see the logic of the "he is a special case and needed a couple years". But the longer that period goes on the more it sounds like an excuse for lack of ability rather than lack of experience playing the game.

He MUST play this year. And FWIW I think we should play him. Time to see what he has got.

EDIT - the same goes for Gallucci who does not have such excuses. This will be his second year. He must play more than 9 games or he goes on the list as well

EDIT - thanks to Kristof for noting Talia only played 9 games in his first two years. (0 in the first, 9 in the second) I added him into the table.

Doedee has been unfortunate with injury, but will play 15+ this year if fit, seeing he has done the Lever role in the SANFL.

His make or break season is 2019.

Gooch is just about guaranteed to play 15+ as well seeing he is pratically uncontested for the 2nd small forward position.