Training 2017/2018 Pre-season Thread

[ad victoriam]

That’s ridiculous even by your illiterate standards

11 votes out of 20 is not a remarkable game, it is middle of the road and frankly not much more than Walker averages EVERY WEEK

you holding your todger over a big win when he is not in the top half of players on the ground is stupid. Just dumb

Trying to paint an ok game as amazing just demeans the value of your judgement

Getting a bit negative there. never answer a discussion or argument with an insult, I thought you would know that, after quoting Jack Welch.
Now your problem with this, due to your blinding dislike of JJ you neglected to find out what the initial question was.
ie when was the Last time JJ defeated his Man 1 on 1. - I answered, then followed up with the coaches believed he did, he received 11 coaches votes, now most understand how the votes are awarded. (if not I have added the 1-4 count) And by simply applying that rule he played his role and a few coaches have also voted as influencing the game. Remembering there are only 5 coaches voting 1-4
So in order to reply to your comment, it does not matter where he came in in the order on the day because that was not the question.

Sanders, you are very predictable in you argumentive style, not a good trait in the business world. My suggestion at this time, read Dale Carnegie book How to Win Friends and Influence People,





Club Champion Voting Protocol
1 vote: Played their role. Solid game without significant influence on the game
2 votes: Played his role well and influenced the game
3 votes: Played his role very well with significant influence on the game
4 votes: Played his role outstandingly and dominated the game

 

[Rotayjay]

I'm not so excited by the prospect of new JJ turning up in 2018. I'm now accepting that he has reached his potential.

At his age, you can't expect dramatic imrovement. Sad situation for him having had his worst day on the most important day, but that's AFL footy.

 

[Vader]

At his age, you can't expect dramatic imrovement. Sad situation for him having had his worst day on the most important day, but that's AFL footy.

He wasn't alone, and anyone who blames him for the GF debacle is having a lend of themselves. Our midfield were smashed and we didn't manage to get the ball into the F50 anywhere near as often as we should have - and when we did, the delivery was awful. Our forwards were fighting an uphill battle all day, because the midfielders were letting them down. Rory Sloane is far more responsible for the GF debacle than JJ, and even then it would be wrong to isolate one midfielder when most of them had absolute stinkers (Matt Crouch being the notable exception).

But the haters are always going to hate, and somehow it's all JJ's fault?

Some people just need to realise that he's never going to be the crash & bash forward they want him to be. His strengths lie with his height and pace, and that's the role he's expected to play. Those "out the back" goals are the result of hard work, and him getting free from his direct opponent by using his strengths. They're not cheap, they're paid for in full by JJ's hard work.

The problem here isn't JJ, it's the badly misaligned expectations that some fans have developed, which is to blame for him becoming a whipping boy.

 

[JimmyTheScoop]

Hey guys, got a question for you. Have their been any changes to how we can use/access the rookie list during the year?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Scorpus]

He wasn't alone, and anyone who blames him for the GF debacle is having a lend of themselves. Our midfield were smashed and we didn't manage to get the ball into the F50 anywhere near as often as we should have - and when we did, the delivery was awful. Our forwards were fighting an uphill battle all day, because the midfielders were letting them down. Rory Sloane is far more responsible for the GF debacle than JJ, and even then it would be wrong to isolate one midfielder when most of them had absolute stinkers (Matt Crouch being the notable exception).

But the haters are always going to hate, and somehow it's all JJ's fault?

Some people just need to realise that he's never going to be the crash & bash forward they want him to be. His strengths lie with his height and pace, and that's the role he's expected to play. Those "out the back" goals are the result of hard work, and him getting free from his direct opponent by using his strengths. They're not cheap, they're paid for in full by JJ's hard work.

The problem here isn't JJ, it's the badly misaligned expectations that some fans have developed, which is to blame for him becoming a whipping boy.

I expect a player being paid more than $500k to have a real influence in finals

 

[GrommoT]

Hey guys, got a question for you. Have their been any changes to how we can use/access the rookie list during the year?

Yes - they can all play without needing to be promoted.

Ed. Actually, Cat A rookies can play...
Category A rookies will be eligible to play from round one next season [www.afl.com.au]

Spoiler

[1.2mb]

 

[Vader]

I expect a player being paid more than $500k to have a real influence in finals

He did, according to the coaches - evidence which you apparently reject. He actually had a better Finals series than Walker, according to the B&F votes, not to mention board luvvies Seedsman & Atkins.

He didn't poll any votes in the Grand Final. Guess what? He's not alone there. Only Jacobs & M Crouch can truly hold their heads high, having picked up 10+ B&F votes for that game. No votes were awarded to Betts, Talia, Knight, Jenkins, Walker, Atkins, Seedsman, Greenwood, and Otten. I don't see the same level of vitriol being directed at Walker...

Our best finals players were Brouch (37 votes), Mrouch (36), Laird (35), Jacobs (33), Douglas (32), Lynch (30), Cameron (29), and Betts (27). 18 of Cameron's 29 votes came from one (outstanding) game, the other players all polled 10+ in at least 2 finals.

Looking at other players, and how they fared in the B&F voting:

• Lynch was our 6th best player in the finals (according to the B&F votes). This is of interest due to the recent discussions on this board regarding his contract negotiations.
• Mackay (23) was our equal 10th best finals performer, and polled votes in all 3 finals (including 2x 10+ games), facts which are inconvenient for his many haters on this board.

 

[Markthirtytwo2]

I expect a player being paid more than $500k to have a real influence in finals

Just how many of them then do you believe was influential on GF day?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I expect a player being paid more than $500k to have a real influence in finals

None of our players over $500K had an influence in the grand final, but throw the vitriol at 1...

 

[Vader]

Just how many of them then do you believe was influential on GF day?

M Crouch & Jacobs were genuinely influential in the GF. None of the rest of our players were, regardless of how highly they're paid.

 

[Banshee23]

M Crouch & Jacobs were genuinely influential in the GF. None of the rest of our players were, regardless of how highly they're paid.

Still think M Crouch is not much more than a 'foot soldier'? Genuine question. If I'm not mistaken, you have classed him as a B Grader in the past?

 

[Vader]

Still think M Crouch is not much more than a 'foot soldier'? Genuine question. If I'm not mistaken, you have classed him as a B Grader in the past?

He surprised me last year. A lot.

He's always been a ball magnet, but prior to 2017 he wasn't damaging with his disposals. His kicking, particularly over longer ranges, was particularly poor. He improved dramatically in this area in 2017. This is what transformed him from being a high disposal foot soldier to being a genuinely dangerous midfielder.

I expected his aerobic capacity to improve, resulting in even higher disposal counts (as he was able to get to more contests). I didn't predict such a dramatic improvement in his execution once he had possession.

 

[mattymac]

Still think M Crouch is not much more than a 'foot soldier'? Genuine question. If I'm not mistaken, you have classed him as a B Grader in the past?

Harsh. Definitely came on a long way last year with his mature decision making and his kicking became a strength. Previously he was a bit of a frantic disher-offer in the Thommo mould. 2017 saw him look to damage with his disposal and a bit of Sam Mitchell style short deadly foot passing while deliberately playing within his limitations so as to limit turnovers.

2017 saw Matty move on up into A grade ranks imo.

 

[GreyCrow]

Not sure how you're getting these comparative data?

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...layerStatus2=A&tid2=2&pid2=3547&fid2=C&type=A

 

[Banshee23]

He surprised me last year. A lot.

He's always been a ball magnet, but prior to 2017 he wasn't damaging with his disposals. His kicking, particularly over longer ranges, was particularly poor. He improved dramatically in this area in 2017. This is what transformed him from being a high disposal foot soldier to being a genuinely dangerous midfielder.

I expected his aerobic capacity to improve, resulting in even higher disposal counts (as he was able to get to more contests). I didn't predict such a dramatic improvement in his execution once he had possession.

Think he surprised all of us at least a little bit

 

[JimmyTheScoop]

Yes - they can all play without needing to be promoted.

Ed. Actually, Cat A rookies can play...

Category A rookies will be eligible to play from round one next season [www.afl.com.au]

That’s what I thought, do you have a link? Cheers [emoji482]


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[John Who]

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...layerStatus2=A&tid2=2&pid2=3547&fid2=C&type=A

Ok you got me!
Though comparing a defender and a forward for the amount of tackles, is the same as comparisons with goals for. ie. not very useful comparisons!

 

[baldandbroke]

I think the point that is being repeated about JJ is not just about to the GF.

It's about his role in the team, and why we have a 100kg beast that doesn't play like a 100kg beast. What does he bring that is so important? If it's not his physicality (which it isn't) are some claiming he in the team for his aerobic strength? His skill? His marking? His play making?

That's all I see as the problem. Who is he keeping out - what are we missing because JJ is in the team ... and could we be better without him?

 

[Vader]

I think the point that is being repeated about JJ is not just about to the GF.

It's about his role in the team, and why we have a 100kg beast that doesn't play like a 100kg beast. What does he bring that is so important? If it's not his physicality (which it isn't) are some claiming he in the team for his aerobic strength? His skill? His marking? His play making?

That's all I see as the problem. Who is he keeping out - what are we missing because JJ is in the team ... and could we be better without him?

The problem isn't with how he plays, it's your expectations of how you think he should play.

He doesn't play like a 100kg beast. He will never play like a 100kg beast. That's not his strength, and it's not the role the coach expects him to play. So why do you persist with basing your judgements on an expectation which isn't shared by the player or coaching staff?

 

[baldandbroke]

The problem isn't with how he plays, it's your expectations of how you think he should play.

He doesn't play like a 100kg beast. He will never play like a 100kg beast. That's not his strength, and it's not the role the coach expects him to play. So why do you persist with basing your judgements on an expectation which isn't shared by the player or coaching staff?

I just said exactly that.

If he isn't in the team for his strength and power... What is he in the team for? Dare you to say 'goals' or 'ruck'. [emoji52]



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[GreyCrow]

Ok you got me!
Though comparing a defender and a forward for the amount of tackles, is the same as comparisons with goals for. ie. not very useful comparisons!

Sure, I was trying to compare the size of the heart. Hell Mackay got knocked over by a football and still aims to stick tackles. Yes JJ does tackle at times and has the stats to back it up but I think I have said from day 1 of my time here. Compete and you go a long way to winning me. I even thought JJ had turned the corner after his stint in the SANFL, he came back in beast mode and we all thought yeahboy and then he reverted to type. Yes the argument that our expectations should be modified are accurate as well. But he , in my metric, doesnt even get to the standard I expect of him as a forward.

 

[jaytex]

You and EC are starting to sound like drones, with the same repeated one-liner as quoted. Running out of witty jokes?

I, for one, thank them for saying the thing that we're all thinking, every day, every time we see yet another self-indulgent googlified glory hole comment masquerading as insightful input.

 

[John Who]

I just said exactly that.

If he isn't in the team for his strength and power... What is he in the team for? Dare you to say 'goals' or 'ruck'. [emoji52]



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I've said this in about half a dozen other threads, and I don't mind sharing this useful insight again..
JJ's usefulness is his speed, not his power. He can outrun most of the big-bodied defenders, which creates a useful mismatch in our forward line. From this mismatch, it can create direct goals by him, or it can create goal assists.
He is not, and I repeat again, NOT a player to take big pack marks or cause friction rub to the back of the defenders.

 

[John Who]

I, for one, thank them for saying the thing that we're all thinking, every day, every time we see yet another self-indulgent googlified glory hole comment masquerading as insightful input.

well good for you.

 

[jaytex]

Hahaha you really are Alex.

Condolences to your poor widow.

Can't be. Gender set as female...

*insert Lionel Hutz case closed meme here*