Resource 2017 AFL and AFLW Crowds and Ratings

[jatz14]

Question to people in Perth: what appears to be the prevailing sentiment towards the new stadium? Is it excitement and pride or are people already grumbling about it?

Makes a huge difference going forward. Docklands and Adelaide Oval are both terrific places to watch footy but one of them benefited from enormous goodwill when it opened and the other made a bad first impression with some PR stuff ups and its reputation has never recovered.

The greatest think going for the new stadium is Subiaco oval. Even if it was average, it would still be a big upgrade, and it doesn't look like it is going to be average.

Most people are really looking forward to it. The biggest danger initially will be possible access issues, and I think people will lay that at the feet of the government, not the stadium.

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[Defabs]

Just thought i do some estimate crowd figures the first 3 rounds of next season: Great for others feedback.

Round 1:
Richmond V Carlton MCG 86,478
Essendon V Adelaide Docklands 40,756
St.Kilda V Brisbane Docklands 23,786
Port Power V Fremantle AO 38,439
Gold Coast V North Cairns 10,807
Hawthorn V Collingwood MCG 71,374
Western Sydney V Bulldogs Manuka 14,017
Melbourne V Geelong MCG 45,278
West Coast V Sydney PS 55,601

Round 2:
Adelaide V Richmond AO 53,208
North V St.Kilda Docklands 38,755
Carlton V Gold Coast Docklands 23,491
Collingwood V Western Sydney MCG 32,901
Brisbane V Melbourne GABBA 17,455
Fremantle V Essendon PS 54,308
Bulldogs V West Coast Docklands 30,717
Sydney V Port Power SCG 34,158
Geelong V Hawthorn MCG 72,541

Round 3:
Carlton V Collingwood MCG 67,598
Port Power V Brisbane AO 35,667
Melbourne V North MCG 32,796
Gold Coast V Fremantle PS 35,000
Sydney V Western Sydney SCG 38,275
St.Kilda V Adelaide Docklands 26,451
Richmond V Hawthorn MCG 64,281
Bulldogs V Essendon Docklands 47,474
West coast V Geelong PS 56,475

I think a few of those round 1 crowds are a bit light on

Richmond Carlton will be 93K. The flag will be unfurled at the game. Tiger supporters will do anything to get a ticket for this game.

Ess Adel will be closer to 45K. After a great year last year, the Bombers supporters will be out in force for the opener.
Adel have a strong travelling contingent also.

Melb Gee 55K - Ablett making his comeback for Geelong will see a massive influx of Cats supporters at the game. The Dees although they finished the season poorly, would still be pretty excited about their prospects in 2018.

WC v Syd 59K - there will barely be a spare seat at the game. Even the old time WC members who failed to appear at each Subi game would ensure they'd be there for the opener.

The others seems pretty right to me.

We should get around 410K for the opening round.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Gold Coast/Fremantle is being played at the new Perth Stadium, with the commonwealth games they sold a game there. 35k is a safe prediction, really i got no idea what the attendance could be. Hoping Perth Stadium is exactly like Adelaide oval with its attraction and crowd pull, irrelevant of how both WA team perform.

Surely it's early enough in the season that it'll be a sellout crowd, just even for some fans who might not get another opportunity to attend a game in the new stadium (maybe because of more GA tickets or something similar?)

 

[Madtiger2006]

I think a few of those round 1 crowds are a bit light on

Richmond Carlton will be 93K. The flag will be unfurled at the game. Tiger supporters will do anything to get a ticket for this game.

Ess Adel will be closer to 45K. After a great year last year, the Bombers supporters will be out in force for the opener.
Adel have a strong travelling contingent also.

Melb Gee 55K - Ablett making his comeback for Geelong will see a massive influx of Cats supporters at the game. The Dees although they finished the season poorly, would still be pretty excited about their prospects in 2018.

WC v Syd 59K - there will barely be a spare seat at the game. Even the old time WC members who failed to appear at each Subi game would ensure they'd be there for the opener.

The others seems pretty right to me.

We should get around 410K for the opening round.

And that’s counting 2 games with crowds of 10-15k

 

[Colonial]

So rather than spending $1 billion on one fantastic stadium, $100 mill will be spent on 10 little stadiums (although that's enough to spruce up each of those suburban stadiums)

We only need 40mil for ours

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[Rabman]

I think a few of those round 1 crowds are a bit light on

Richmond Carlton will be 93K. The flag will be unfurled at the game. Tiger supporters will do anything to get a ticket for this game.

Ess Adel will be closer to 45K. After a great year last year, the Bombers supporters will be out in force for the opener.
Adel have a strong travelling contingent also.

Melb Gee 55K - Ablett making his comeback for Geelong will see a massive influx of Cats supporters at the game. The Dees although they finished the season poorly, would still be pretty excited about their prospects in 2018.

WC v Syd 59K - there will barely be a spare seat at the game. Even the old time WC members who failed to appear at each Subi game would ensure they'd be there for the opener.

The others seems pretty right to me.

We should get around 410K for the opening round.

Fair enough, my estimates are based off past attendances. Its certainly possible the Richmond/Carlton could be a high drawer however only 11 games in the history of Australian rules have fetched over 90k, 6 of those ANZAC day. Essendon/Adelaide, highest attendance in Melbourne for an essendon home game against Adelaide is 40,322 (2002), but certainly could be a new record. Melbourne/Geelong, last time a crowd over 50k was 2005, highest since been 38,438 (2007).

 

[Rob]

Surely it's early enough in the season that it'll be a sellout crowd, just even for some fans who might not get another opportunity to attend a game in the new stadium (maybe because of more GA tickets or something similar?)

Going to depend on how they sell it. It's not exactly a marketable game, so maybe offering all seats for $25 (possibly less for members) might be a way to fill the ground.

 

[Cmarsh]

Looking at the RL world cup matches, it's very obvious the ploy is to stack the crowd in the stands opposite to the camera to appear as though there is a good crowd.

Most of the time the stands on the camera side are very light with spectators.

 

[NoobPie]

Looking at the RL world cup matches, it's very obvious the ploy is to stack the crowd in the stands opposite to the camera to appear as though there is a good crowd.

Most of the time the stands on the camera side are very light with spectators.

Good crowd and atmosphere for tonga v Samoa

 

[BringBackTorps]

Looking at the RL world cup matches, it's very obvious the ploy is to stack the crowd in the stands opposite to the camera to appear as though there is a good crowd.

Most of the time the stands on the camera side are very light with spectators.

This is an obvious & smart approach by Ch.7 -to create more "atmosphere"for the TV viewers. It also helps to entice fans to attend games.

This approach was also used by Ch.10 with its VFA broadcasts in the 70-80's. The cameras would pan across to the Grandstand side where there might be c.4500 fans (& where most facilities were located) -on the wing, there might be usually less than 500 (except for big games). The Ch.10 TV team were sitting in scaffolding. Ch.10 GREW the VFA crowds, as the telecasts were very popular (when the VFL did not play on Sats.).

This same policy should be adopted for AFLW games -are the TV/AFL dills sufficiently savvy?

 

[Our Game]

This is an obvious & smart approach by Ch.7 -to create more "atmosphere"for the TV viewers. It also helps to entice fans to attend games.

This approach was also used by Ch.10 with its VFA broadcasts in the 70-80's. The cameras would pan across to the Grandstand side where there might be c.4500 fans (& where most facilities were located) -on the wing, there might be usually less than 500 (except for big games). The Ch.10 TV team were sitting in scaffolding. Ch.10 GREW the VFA crowds, as the telecasts were very popular (when the VFL did not play on Sats.).

This same policy should be adopted for AFLW games -are the TV/AFL dills sufficiently savvy?

(when the VFL did not play on Sats.).

I think you mean the VFL didnt play on Sundays.
The VFA had Sundays to themselves for more than 20 years until South Melbourne relocated to Sydney and played on Sundays.

 

[Gigantor]

(when the VFL did not play on Sats.).

I think you mean the VFL didnt play on Sundays.
The VFA had Sundays to themselves for more than 20 years until South Melbourne relocated to Sydney and played on Sundays.

Actually it was in 1979 that the VFL started playing one reserves game per round on a Sunday which was telecast live - people might recall one famous game where a Collingwood ruckman attacked an ump - I'm pretty sure that was one of the reserves games being telecast live.

Then in 1980 and 1981, a few games were played in Sydney for points.

 

[Our Game]

Actually it was in 1979 that the VFL started playing one reserves game per round on a Sunday which was telecast live - people might recall one famous game where a Collingwood ruckman attacked an ump - I'm pretty sure that was one of the reserves games being telecast live.

Then in 1980 and 1981, a few games were played in Sydney for points.

I was talking about senior VFL teams not seconds.

 

[Gigantor]

I was talking about senior VFL teams not seconds.

Your words were: The VFA had Sundays to themselves for more than 20 years until South Melbourne relocated to Sydney and played on Sundays.

And I said the VFL started playing a reserves game on Sunday in 1979, telecast live, meaning the VFA no longer had Sundays to themselves from that point ( a full 3 years before South started playing their home games in Sydney) .

Then three games were fixtured in Sydney in 1980 and 1981, all played on a Sunday.

 

[Our Game]

Your words were: The VFA had Sundays to themselves for more than 20 years until South Melbourne relocated to Sydney and played on Sundays.

And I said the VFL started playing a reserves game on Sunday in 1979, telecast live, meaning the VFA no longer had Sundays to themselves from that point ( a full 3 years before South started playing their home games in Sydney) .

Then three games were fixtured in Sydney in 1980 and 1981, all played on a Sunday.

Well if you want to be pedantic the VFA had 19 years from 1960 on their own till the VFL seconds matches from the Lake Oval and 20 years for the VFL seniors in Sydney

The first ever Sunday VFL match was April 5 1970, on the occasion of a Royal visit. One match from Round 1 was programmed at the MCG in the presence of The Queen and Prince Phillip. Richmond played Fitzroy. It was the first League match to be programmed on a Sunday. The VFA season didnt start till April 19th that year so there was no clash.

 

[BringBackTorps]

(when the VFL did not play on Sats.).

I think you mean the VFL didnt play on Sundays.
The VFA had Sundays to themselves for more than 20 years until South Melbourne relocated to Sydney and played on Sundays.

Yes, my typo.- meant Sundays.

The 1979 VFL Reserves' Sunday televised games had little impact on the VFA's popularity.
However, the VFA's strong Sunday TV ratings dropped considerably when a few Sunday VFL games were broadcast to Melb. from Sydney, starting in 1980 (& Swans relocation in 1982). The VFA lost its Sunday TV monopoly. Sadly, it was the start of the end for the VFA -& some very poor wasteful spending by VFA Clubs didn't help it.

The VFA's good crowds also began to drop after they lost their Sunday TV monopoly.
Suburban VFA's tribalism/sense of local identity was very strong. In the 70's in Div.1, Dandenong, Preston, Oakleigh, Pt Melbourne, Prahran attracted big home ground crowds.
In 1976:-
.Div. 1 H & A crowds 603,637 (18 rounds)
.Div.2 " 213,492 (18 rounds)
.Div.1 Final crowds 75,895
.Div.2 " 44,267
Total crowds 937,291 (Source M. Fiddian, "A History of the VFA 1897 - 1995" MSB Publishing, Brunswick 2004)

The VFL won the war that had raged from 1897...but AF culture & strength in Melb. has been diluted (when considered on a per capita basis, & Melb's. MUCH bigger current pop. of c.4,820,000).
AF is MUCH stronger now in NSW & Qld., due to the AFL's strong support; & the army of dedicated, heroic & competent AF volunteers in NSW & Qld (NT is now also an AFL heartland area, so strong is AF there).

This is further evidence, if anyone doubts it, that the AFLW (to maximise its TV ratings & crowds -& to promote GR female AF regd. nos) must never be played concurrently with AFL games.

 

[Our Game]

Yes, my typo.- meant Sundays.

The 1979 VFL Reserves' Sunday televised games had little impact on the VFA's popularity.
However, the VFA's strong Sunday TV ratings dropped considerably when a few Sunday VFL games were broadcast to Melb. from Sydney, starting in 1980 (& Swans relocation in 1982). The VFA lost its Sunday TV monopoly. Sadly, it was the start of the end for the VFA -& some very poor wasteful spending by VFA Clubs didn't help it.

The VFA's good crowds also began to drop after they lost their Sunday TV monopoly.
Suburban VFA's tribalism/sense of local identity was very strong. In the 70's in Div.1, Dandenong, Preston, Oakleigh, Pt Melbourne, Prahran attracted big home ground crowds.
In 1976:-
.Div. 1 H & A crowds 603,637
.Div.2 " 213,492
.Div.1 Final crowds 75,895
.Div.2 " 44,267
Total crowds 937,291( Source M. Fiddian, A History of the VFA 1897 - 1995 MSB Publishing, Brunswick 2004)

The VFL won the war that had raged from 1897...but AF culture & strength in Melb. has been diluted (when considered on a per capita basis, & Melb's. MUCH bigger current pop. of c.4,820,000).
AF is MUCH stronger now in NSW & Qld., due to the AFL's strong support: & the army of dedicated & competent AF volunteers in NSW & Qld (NT is now also an AFL heartland area, so strong is AF there).

This is further evidence, if anyone doubts it, that the AFLW (to maximise its TV ratings & crowds -& to promote GR female AF regd. nos) must never be played concurrently with AFL games.

Yes the halcyon days of the VFA were the 1970s You forgot to mention that Sandringham got very big crowds to the Beach Road Oval as well during that era.The biggest Sandringham home crowd ever was against Port Melbourne in 1975 13,988 when both Ron Barassi and Bob Skilton pulled on the boots for Port but The Zebras quite often would get over 10,000 to matches during that era.

VFL president Allen Aylett and Sec Jack Hamilton with the aid of CH 7 set out to destroy the VFA with the tactic of televising directly on Sundays.

Eventually John Cain allowed Sunday matches to be played in Melbourne in the early 1980s and that was the final nail in the coffin of Victorias oldest football competition - the competition that spawned all the current Melbourne AFL teams and Geelong.
Unlike the SANFL and WAFL the VFA was always playing second fiddle to the VFL after the split in 1896

I agree about the womens game, it should never be played against the main AFL comp
It will also be very interesting to see how they go in a couple of years time when fans are charged admission.
Lets hope the crowds dont drop away like the womens soccer crowds have, from what I have seen this year they would be lucky to number in the hundreds!

 

[jatz14]

Yes the halcyon days of the VFA were the 1970s You forgot to mention that Sandringham got very big crowds to the Beach Road Oval as well during that era.The biggest Sandringham home crowd ever was against Port Melbourne in 1975 13,988 when both Ron Barassi and Bob Skilton pulled on the boots for Port but The Zebras quite often would get over 10,000 to matches during that era.

VFL president Allen Aylett and Sec Jack Hamilton with the aid of CH 7 set out to destroy the VFA with the tactic of televising directly on Sundays.

Eventually John Cain allowed Sunday matches to be played in Melbourne in the early 1980s and that was the final nail in the coffin of Victorias oldest football competition - the competition that spawned all the current Melbourne AFL teams and Geelong.
Unlike the SANFL and WAFL the VFA was always playing second fiddle to the VFL after the split in 1896

I agree about the womens game, it should never be played against the main AFL comp
It will also be very interesting to see how they go in a couple of years time when fans are charged admission.
Lets hope the crowds dont drop away like the womens soccer crowds have, from what I have seen this year they would be lucky to number in the hundreds!

Womens soccer crowds are up significantly, it is the mens game where crowds are down.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Yes the halcyon days of the VFA were the 1970s You forgot to mention that Sandringham got very big crowds to the Beach Road Oval as well during that era.The biggest Sandringham home crowd ever was against Port Melbourne in 1975 13,988 when both Ron Barassi and Bob Skilton pulled on the boots for Port but The Zebras quite often would get over 10,000 to matches during that era.

VFL president Allen Aylett and Sec Jack Hamilton with the aid of CH 7 set out to destroy the VFA with the tactic of televising directly on Sundays.

Eventually John Cain allowed Sunday matches to be played in Melbourne in the early 1980s and that was the final nail in the coffin of Victorias oldest football competition - the competition that spawned all the current Melbourne AFL teams and Geelong.
Unlike the SANFL and WAFL the VFA was always playing second fiddle to the VFL after the split in 1896

I agree about the womens game, it should never be played against the main AFL comp
It will also be very interesting to see how they go in a couple of years time when fans are charged admission.
Lets hope the crowds dont drop away like the womens soccer crowds have, from what I have seen this year they would be lucky to number in the hundreds!

Aaahh... the Zebras ( "The Bras": now, that's a good name for a women's team!). Zebras was a great name, & they had a great jumper also. Yes, Sandy was often packed & rocking.

In the 70's VFA Div.1 GF's had crowds up to 32,317; in earlier post 1897 GF's, 30,000+ also.
In the 1920's, H & A rounds could attract often 20,000+ total pw (Melb., then, obviously, had a much smaller pop.). In the late 30's, the VFA recruited Nash (greatest player of all time, freakish skills), Pratt (kicked 150 goals in 1 year in the VFL), Todd (kicked 120 goals in the VFL in 1938), Fothergill (Brownlow Medallist), & other good players from the VFL.

Do you think the VFA could be successfully recreated if it played mainly in the evenings, during Oct. -March? Offering 16 a side, reduced interchange -less than 5 per game (less flooding after half time, more open play, more goals, 2 goals for a torp.outside 50 mtrs.) & offered full strength beer (for those who don't like drinking dishwater).

 

[BringBackTorps]

Womens soccer crowds are up significantly, it is the mens game where crowds are down.

Not counting W League games which are played either directly before or after A League games, are W League crowds up significantly for season 2017/8? And approx. % increase & nos.?
(Double headers can be misleading -but, nonetheless, what is the approx. % increase & nos.?)

 

[jatz14]

Not counting W League games which are played either directly before or after A League games, are W League crowds up significantly for season 2017/8? And approx. % increase & nos.?
(Double headers can be misleading -but, nonetheless, what is the approx. % increase & nos.?)

From The Wookies tweets, and I am not aware they have had any double headers yet.

 

[jatz14]

From The Wookies tweets, and I am not aware they have had any double headers yet.

Note percentage of capacity for the stadiums, average is 8%. Its why it looks like it should be down, they are playing in stadiums that almost look empty.
Also, huge variation between clubs and games, from 4 - 5 k, to sub k. So percentages could turn quickly with a few rounds of low drawing games.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Aaahh... the Zebras ( "The Bras": now, that's a good name for a women's team!). Zebras was a great name, & they had a great jumper also. Yes, Sandy was often packed & rocking.

In the 70's VFA Div.1 GF's had crowds up to 32,317; in earlier post 1897 GF's, 30,000+ also.
In the 1920's, H & A rounds could attract often 20,000+ total pw (Melb., then, obviously, had a much smaller pop.). In the late 30's, the VFA recruited Nash (greatest player of all time, freakish skills), Pratt (kicked 150 goals in 1 year in the VFL), Todd (kicked 120 goals in the VFL in 1938), Fothergill (Brownlow Medallist), & other good players from the VFL.

Do you think the VFA could be successfully recreated if it played in the evenings, during Oct. -March? Offering 16 a side, reduced interchange -less than 5 per game (less flooding after half time, more open play, more goals, 2 goals for a torp.outside 50 mtrs.) & offered full strength beer (for those who don't like drinking dishwater).

Most of their grounds host cricket in summer

 

[Our Game]

Aaahh... the Zebras ( "The Bras": now, that's a good name for a women's team!). Zebras was a great name, & they had a great jumper also. Yes, Sandy was often packed & rocking.

In the 70's VFA Div.1 GF's had crowds up to 32,317; in earlier post 1897 GF's, 30,000+ also.
In the 1920's, H & A rounds could attract often 20,000+ total pw (Melb., then, obviously, had a much smaller pop.). In the late 30's, the VFA recruited Nash (greatest player of all time, freakish skills), Pratt (kicked 150 goals in 1 year in the VFL), Todd (kicked 120 goals in the VFL in 1938), Fothergill (Brownlow Medallist), & other good players from the VFL.

Do you think the VFA could be successfully recreated if it played in the evenings, during Oct. -March? Offering 16 a side, reduced interchange -less than 5 per game (less flooding after half time, more open play, more goals, 2 goals for a torp.outside 50 mtrs.) & offered full strength beer (for those who don't like drinking dishwater).

I think the VFL/AFL have what they want with the VFA/VFL now only a couple of teams away form turning into the AFL reserves.
Its a pity that all the wonderful VFA history is also fading away with the AFL having little interest in preserving this important place in our great game.
BTW: When the VFA resumed competition in 1945,Ron Todd moved to full-forward and kicked a record 188 goals for the season which still stands today, including 20 goals in a game against Oakleigh

 

[BringBackTorps]

I think the VFL/AFL have what they want with the VFA/VFL now only a couple of teams away form turning into the AFL reserves.
Its a pity that all the wonderful VFA history is also fading away with the AFL having little interest in preserving this important place in our great game.
BTW: When the VFA resumed competition in 1945,Ron Todd moved to full-forward and kicked a record 188 goals for the season which still stands today, including 20 goals in a game against Oakleigh

I am suggesting a fully independent VFA, playing in the off-season -could the old, true suburban tribalism be restored? If the BBL razzle dazzle can work, I believe the fast-flowing VFA could also (16 a side, only 2 on the bench, monster torp goals etc.).

L.Nash kicked 18 goals in a State game against SA -even though he was only at full forward for 3 qtrs! Gordon Coventry wrote that if Nash had played full forward, he would have kicked more goals than anyone, Coventry included. Nash was only 5 '9", but regularly out marked much taller opponents due to his phenomenal leaping -& unique mastery of the lateral hanger (ie outstretched arm at 90 degrees, pulling the ball back in to his other hand, whilst falling).

Incidentally, I recall Sandy fans often saying proudly "I've always been a Bra man"!