Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[BlueTongue]

Read my post. I specifically said that level of player not that type of player.

However I would argue Rockliff is more like Curnow than Cripps but that is another discussion completely.

Pfft. Nothing alike on any level. Rockliff would be in Anyones best 22, Curnow would not.
Also, Rockliff is a ball winner who kicks goals and only this year has done a couple of tagging roles, whereas Curnow is largely a shutdown player with limited foot skills.

 

[Nori]

Pfft. Nothing alike on any level. Rockliff would be in Anyones best 22, Curnow would not.
Also, Rockliff is a ball winner who kicks goals and only this year has done a couple of tagging roles, whereas Curnow is largely a shutdown player with limited foot skills.

Seems to me the Blues were a much better side this year when Curnow was playing.

Curnow is not the same player he was 3-4 years ago. His foot skills are now every bit as good as Rockliff's and he can also hit the scoreboard at crucial times in games. He's an aerobic beast that wins contested possessions. He's not the one dimensional shutdown player you seem to think he is.

On the other hand, Rockliff played more of a shutdown role in the second half of 2017. In the game against Brisbane they elected to sacrifice Rockliff's game to control Gibbs. That should speak volumes about their respective hurt factors (Gibbs vs Rockliff).

Ed is part of the Blue's leadship group and he drives the training standards like no other player. He's highly respected and liked by the entire playing group. Rockliff on the other hand was partially responsible for a number of talented youngsters leaving Brisbane a few years ago.

I put Rockliff and Ed at roughly the same value, but I wouldn't trade Ed for Rockliff.

You apparently think they're not even in the same ball park. That's fine. I suspect most people would agree with you, but the populist opinion is not always the right one.

 

[Soapy V]

So we're getting Rockliff Balic Lang Miles Kennedy Smith and Pick 3 this year. That solves the midfield issues

 

[BlueTongue]

Seems to me the Blues were a much better side this year when Curnow was playing.

Curnow is not the same player he was 3-4 years ago. His foot skills are now every bit as good as Rockliff's and he can also hit the scoreboard at crucial times in games. He's an aerobic beast that wins contested possessions. He's not the one dimensional shutdown player you seem to think he is.

On the other hand, Rockliff played more of a shutdown role in the second half of 2017. In the game against Brisbane they elected to sacrifice Rockliff's game to control Gibbs. That should speak volumes about their respective hurt factors (Gibbs vs Rockliff).

Ed is part of the Blue's leadship group and he drives the training standards like no other player. He's highly respected and liked by the entire playing group. Rockliff on the other hand was partially responsible for a number of talented youngsters leaving Brisbane a few of years ago.

I put Rockliff and Ed at roughly the same value, but I wouldn't trade Ed for Rockliff.

You apparently think they're not even in the same ball park. That's fine. I suspect most people would agree with you, but the populist opinion is not always right one.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your points about Ed, and I think he IS in OUR best 22 (at present - not sure how much longer), but not best 22 all teams in the league.
Also agree with the improved footskills and aerobic beast comments (in fact his whole family are renowned as being super competitive sportsmen/women) but Rockliff is a ball accumulator, better skilled, and regularly hits the scoreboard, which is something we sorely lack. If he can also perform the shutdown role, I think Ed's days would be numbered TBH.

 

[Jimmae]

For Rockliff to get Band 1 compo (pick 2) he would have to be in the top 15 paid players 25 and over in the league. Only 14 players would be able to be paid more than him. Buddy, Tippett, Dusty, Ablett, NicNat, Fyfe..........

We would have to offer him at least $900K (probably more) for at least 4 years, no way I want us to do that and knock our pick 3 down to 4. This isn't a 25 yo Dangerfield we are talking about, it's a 27 yo Rockliff who they actively shopped around 12 months ago.

Sure, offer some good coin, but they aren't the only team to lose a free agent (Betts and Waite for nil compo) and we shouldn't even consider a trade if they try and trade for him. What if we get pick 17 for Gibbs? Are they going to haggle for pick 17 instead of taking the freebie pick 18 (they know we ain't giving up pick 3).

It's the top 5% from over 25, which could be 15 players, but probably more like 30. Top 5% of the league right now is over 40 names.

One thing you're not factoring in when you came up with that figure is that it's another year on, and that Dusty and Fyfe are adding to those names this season, not detracting from them. Riewoldt would be the only player dropping out of that bracket, maybe save for Ablett (if he hadn't already dropped down with his supposedly front-ended GC deal).

Makes sense after we have drafted Cuningham, SPS & Fisher who historically aren't big possession winners even in their junior days.

Fisher found a lot of ball as a junior

SPS too, though I understand the confusion given his injuries in his final year at junior level.

 

[Curnivore]

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your points about Ed, and I think he IS in OUR best 22 (at present - not sure how much longer), but not best 22 all teams in the league.
Also agree with the improved footskills and aerobic beast comments (in fact his whole family are renowned as being super competitive sportsmen/women) but Rockliff is a ball accumulator, better skilled, and regularly hits the scoreboard, which is something we sorely lack. If he can also perform the shutdown role, I think Ed's days would be numbered TBH.

I can only think of GWS and Sydney as the only two clubs where Ed wouldn't be a starting player in there midfield. Criminally underrated

 

[Soapy V]

Seems to me the Blues were a much better side this year when Curnow was playing.

Curnow is not the same player he was 3-4 years ago. His foot skills are now every bit as good as Rockliff's and he can also hit the scoreboard at crucial times in games. He's an aerobic beast that wins contested possessions. He's not the one dimensional shutdown player you seem to think he is.

On the other hand, Rockliff played more of a shutdown role in the second half of 2017. In the game against Brisbane they elected to sacrifice Rockliff's game to control Gibbs. That should speak volumes about their respective hurt factors (Gibbs vs Rockliff).

Ed is part of the Blue's leadship group and he drives the training standards like no other player. He's highly respected and liked by the entire playing group. Rockliff on the other hand was partially responsible for a number of talented youngsters leaving Brisbane a few of years ago.

I put Rockliff and Ed at roughly the same value, but I wouldn't trade Ed for Rockliff.

You apparently think they're not even in the same ball park. That's fine. I suspect most people would agree with you, but the populist opinion is not always right one.

If you're talking pure football ability I would pick Rockliff. If you're talking about who I would pick first in my side it would be Curnow. Just a great team player and does the job week in week out.

 

[Nori]

If you're talking pure football ability I would pick Rockliff. If you're talking about who I would pick first in my side it would be Curnow. Just a great team player and does the job week in week out.

I'm talking about the value of the player, so that has to include everything.

 

[CJMB]

Seems to me the Blues were a much better side this year when Curnow was playing.

Same goes for Cripps. Says nothing about Rockliff though.


Curnow is not the same player he was 3-4 years ago. His foot skills are now every bit as good as Rockliff's and he can also hit the scoreboard at crucial times in games. He's an aerobic beast that wins contested possessions. He's not the one dimensional shutdown player you seem to think he is.
[/QUOTE]

Yep, he's got TR covered aerobically. Can't say on foot skills but their disposal efficiency isn't too far apart. Rockliff kicks more goals. Way more goals. Not saying Ed is one dimensional at all.

On the other hand, Rockliff played more of a shutdown role in the second half of 2017. In the game against Brisbane they elected to sacrifice Rockliff's game to control Gibbs. That should speak volumes about their respective hurt factors (Gibbs vs Rockliff).

That was after Rockliff had come back from a busted shoulder during the year. Clearly wasn't right and couldn't play his natural game so they got him to play a run with role for a while. He got the better of Bryce that day too.

Ed is part of the Blue's leadship group and he drives the training standards like no other player. He's highly respected and liked by the entire playing group. Rockliff on the other hand was partially responsible for a number of talented youngsters leaving Brisbane a few of years ago.

I put Rockliff and Ed at roughly the same value, but I wouldn't trade Ed for Rockliff.

You apparently think they're not even in the same ball park. That's fine. I suspect most people would agree with you, but the populist opinion is not always right one.

I wouldn't trade Ed for Rockliff. Particularly because we need every incentive to keep Charlie in blue, but also because Ed's a great bloke, a great servant of Carlton and exactly the kind of guy you want around all these talented youngsters as they develop. But I dare say that if it came down to selecting one of the two of them in the midfield most coaches look to Tom first.

At the end of the day we're not trading Ed or Bryce for Rockliff so... *insert taco girl meme here*

 

[BlueTongue]

I can only think of GWS and Sydney as the only two clubs where Ed wouldn't be a starting player in there midfield. Criminally underrated

Add Geelong & Richmond.

 

[Blue Reaper]

Close your eyes and think of our midfield over the last few rounds of the season.

Then insert Cuningham, Cripps, E. Curnow, Rockliff, Kennedy and #3.

Did you notice the subtle lick of the lips?

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Would we be prepared to take Rockliffe if it meant that Brisbane got band 1 compo and pushed us back a spot in the draft??

We should. We should in no way be concerned with what Brisbane may do with a number two compo pick. Should have zero bearing on taking Rockliff.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Just curious. Is everyone set on taking pick 3/4 to the draft? I'm not sure we shouldn't trade it for a ready made player.

 

[Pafloyul]

We can always bring back Brock... for God's sake!

 

[Pafloyul]

Just curious. Is everyone set on taking pick 3/4 to the draft? I'm not sure we shouldn't trade it for a ready made player.

Yeah, as if there is anyone available worth that pick.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Yeah, as if there is anyone available worth that pick.

I don't know mate, was just curious if everyone was set on the draft route

 

[CJMB]

We can always bring back Brock... for God's sake!

straight from EFL div 2 back into the guts?...

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Just curious. Is everyone set on taking pick 3/4 to the draft? I'm not sure we shouldn't trade it for a ready made player.

Josh Kelly was the only player than interested me enough to want to give up pick 3, now he is off the table we should 100% take it to the draft.

The past 5 years picks 3 & 4 have been
2010 Sam Day & Andrew Gaff
2011 Dom Tyson & Will Hoskin Elliott
2012 Jimmy Toumpos OMG... Lachie Plowman
2013 Jack Billings & Marc Bontempelli
2014 Angus Brayshaw & Jarrod Pickett
2015 Callum Mills & Clayton Oliver
2016 Hugh Mccluggage & Ben Ainsworth

Its not faultless but you remain a very good chance of picking up an elite player.

 

[Robertio]

I'm talking about the value of the player, so that has to include everything.

Curnow for me.

 

[HARKER]

Just curious. Is everyone set on taking pick 3/4 to the draft? I'm not sure we shouldn't trade it for a ready made player.

I think that moment may be over after Kelly signed on.
Something amazing would need to poke its head out for us to hand over the #3

 

[F_therest]

Close your eyes and think of our midfield over the last few rounds of the season.

Then insert Cuningham, Cripps, E. Curnow, Rockliff, Kennedy and #3.

Did you notice the subtle lick of the lips?

I did more than that...

 

[F_therest]

We should. We should in no way be concerned with what Brisbane may do with a number two compo pick. Should have zero bearing on taking Rockliff.

Actually we should be concerned since we also have a top pick...it would be different if our first pick was further down the order.
Very real possibility it means we miss out on the player we want at #3 if it gets pushed back to #4.

 

[Curnivore]

Add Geelong & Richmond.

Agree to disagree, because I have Curnow above Grigg, Miles and Gunthrie who all have the luxury of playing along side Selwood, Dangerfield and Dusty taking most of the attention (and I suppose Cotchin, who is a great player but is getting overrated this year)

 

[FairKouta]

Pick 3 for setterfield

 

[Azul]

Is Dylan signed on? Listed among the injured "expected to start pre-season training on time".