Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Part 1 (continued in Part 2 - see OP for link)

[Blue__Balls]

Plenty of talent that has amounted to nothing to date pickett and polson are the only 2 at present id have any confidence about . Although Pickett still has to prove he even has a long term career ahead of him due to ongoing injuries .
Murphy is short term option and getting shorter by the week Garlett is about as outside as Boekhorst was and adds nothing as far as forward pressure atm that could change .
And well Lebois thats just a pipedream at present also .
Weve had this ongoing issue of not being able to develop quality small forwards that can kick goals and add forward pressure for a long time .
And even though youve given plenty of names with promise the problem still exists .
And its a big problem .

Make up your mind, FFS. Is it a big problem or a small problem?

 

[Soapy V]

Plenty of talent that has amounted to nothing to date pickett and polson are the only 2 at present id have any confidence about . Although Pickett still has to prove he even has a long term career ahead of him due to ongoing injuries .
Murphy is short term option and getting shorter by the week Garlett is about as outside as Boekhorst was and adds nothing as far as forward pressure atm that could change .
And well Lebois thats just a pipedream at present also .
Weve had this ongoing issue of not being able to develop quality small forwards that can kick goals and add forward pressure for a long time .
And even though youve given plenty of names with promise the problem still exists .
And its a big problem .

Fair dinkum. They are on the list, young and have talent yet people virtually right them off. Amazes me.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Fair dinkum. They are on the list, young and have talent yet people virtually right them off. Amazes me.

Not writing them off just giving you a reality just because there on the list doesnt mean they are going to make it .
Thats a fact and i know you like talking in facts so there you have it .
Some of these players youve mentioned may not make it maybe all .
Otherwise we wouldnt have this problem now would we ? .

 

[Soapy V]

Not writing them off just giving you a reality just because there on the list doesnt mean they are going to make it .
Thats a fact and i know you like talking in facts so there you have it .
Some of these players youve mentioned may not make it maybe all .
Otherwise we wouldnt have this problem now would we ? .

My FACT is that they are on the list and hardly played. They have the talent so until they get a fair go to prove themselves I will back them in. People are judging players that are young and in most cases haven't played 10 games if any. Absolutely amazing. Just glad they aren't in List Management

 

[Iamcarlton]

My FACT is that they are on the list and hardly played. They have the talent so until they get a fair go to prove themselves I will back them in. People are judging players that are young and in most cases haven't played 10 games if any. Absolutely amazing. Just glad they aren't in List Management

Its not amazing at all fact is a lot of players dont make it .
I like to talk in reality so im forecasting doesnt mean i dont believe in them but its a reality some wont make it .
Imo you talk in hope and faith thats fine but i dont see why you should see a problem with another view that doesnt fit your mindset .

 

[Coops93]

Exactly.



Lamb has been used as a defensive forward.
SOS has been used as a defensive forward.
Neither have been used as pressure forwards.
Ergo...can Polson be developed as a pressure forward.

I guess you could differentiate between them that way. For me a small forward should always be a "pressure small forward". I thought pressure was one of the key components of being a small forward so calling someone a pressure small forward is redundant. As such I thought it must have a different meaning.

However yes, he can be a small forward, should he develop the goal sense as well. He has some goal sense but it doesn't seem instinctive. Very much a mid who can kick goals as opposed to a genuine small forward so if they intend for him to develop into a forward I'll be interested to see how he goes. I think there's something to Polson so I'd like him to find a niche. Has he been tried in the back half? Either as a small defender or as a rebounding defender?

 

[footyfan1978]

Small forward used to be a goal sneak or opportunist.
In the 2010's apparently has to be a pressure forward as his role.
We live in weird times for roles we make up for style of game changed by coaching.
2020's will be back to the future.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Make up your mind, FFS. Is it a big problem or a small problem?

Not sure what you mean or what your referencing you dont agree we are bereft of proven goalkicking pressure small forwards ?
Whether that be a big or small problem .

 

[Blue__Balls]

Not sure what you mean or what your referencing you dont agree we are bereft of proven goalkicking pressure small forwards ?
Whether that be a big or small problem .

*Sigh*.

Is our lack of small forwards a big problem or a...

...small problem.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Small forward used to be a goal sneak or opportunist.
In the 2010's apparently has to be a pressure forward as his role.
We live in weird times for roles we make up for style of game changed by coaching.
2020's will be back to the future.

There's a few old school small forwards around.

Liam Ryan's a good example. Doesn't apply much pressure, but he's a threat on the ground and in the air.

Reckon you can make do with one of each, if they're good enough.

 

[Robertio]

Not sure what you mean or what your referencing you dont agree we are bereft of proven goalkicking pressure small forwards ?
Whether that be a big or small problem .

I do agree with you that's a void we need to fill quickly. In my opinion i've seen enough of Le Bois and Polson that i think that they will both be good players going foward. Le Bois has got some real tricks, but i would like the club to get 1 or 2 from the state leagues as well.

 

[Iamcarlton]

*Sigh*.

Is our lack of small forwards a big problem or a...

...small problem.

And why does it matter to you whether my opinion is that it is a big or small problem may i ask ?

 

[Blue__Balls]

Someone wanna offer Iac a hand here...I've done all I can.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Someone wanna offer Iac a hand here...I've done all I can.

Well i did see what you were trying to do but then thought nah surely not thats pathetic .
Reckon some new material might be the best bet BB

 

[Blue__Balls]

Well i did see what you were trying to do but then thought nah surely not thats pathetic .
Reckon some new material might be the best bet BB

You're no fun.

 

[Iamcarlton]

You're no fun.

Following Carlton for the last 20 years your surprised!
























Nah your right!

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Small forward used to be a goal sneak or opportunist.
In the 2010's apparently has to be a pressure forward as his role.
We live in weird times for roles we make up for style of game changed by coaching.
2020's will be back to the future.

They can still be a goal sneak opportunist, as long as that's not all they are. Same as you can't have a ruckman who only wins hitouts.

Forward pocket used to be considered a fairly minor role in the team. Now you can't afford to have minor roles - every position on the field and on the bench is as important as each other

 

[HBF]

Whats jaksch n summner up to these days. Would of prefered over oshea and mullet

Sumner is playing for St.Bedes/Mentone in the VAFA. I actually cannot find what KJ is doing this year.

 

[ESKIE]

Whats jaksch n summner up to these days. Would of prefered over oshea and mullet

I had high hopes for sumner...oh well

 

[footyfan1978]

They can still be a goal sneak opportunist, as long as that's not all they are. Same as you can't have a ruckman who only wins hitouts.

Forward pocket used to be considered a fairly minor role in the team. Now you can't afford to have minor roles - every position on the field and on the bench is as important as each other

Disagree on all as important as each other. Far more important the roles of 3 or 4 guns a side has. The other 14 to 15 players there to support the game plan built on team defence to allow the guns of team to give a side an edge. But that is all changing again very soon. Forward pockets were not minor roles in many of our premiership teams of past and will be again in the near future. Pressure acts is nothing new. Our team thrived on that and goals in our 3 premierships in 4 years I saw between 1979 and 82. Bosustow and Wayne Johnston readings would have been off the scales at times.

 

[footyfan1978]

I had high hopes for sumner...oh well

Where is he now? Bit sad he screwed his career up at AFL level.

 

[ESKIE]

Where is he now? Bit sad he screwed his career up at AFL level.

HBF above said he is at st bede’s in The vafa

 

[footyfan1978]

HBF above said he is at st bede’s in The vafa

Oh yeah, just read after my post. Thanks HBF.

 

[juzza316]

My FACT is that they are on the list and hardly played. They have the talent so until they get a fair go to prove themselves I will back them in. People are judging players that are young and in most cases haven't played 10 games if any. Absolutely amazing. Just glad they aren't in List Management

Are you really surprised as other supporters not being as optimistic as you are? For nearly 20 years we have been a basket case with poor recruiting, even poorer development and list management.
With what happened on the weekend, it vindicates this type of negative attitude (rightly or wrongly).

IMO player development and culture (*insert Rhys Palmer tweet) must have something to do with it. Polson and Le bois might be stars in the making at another club with solid development, but I just don't see players developing enough at Carlton and feel they could just end up on the scrapheap in a couple of years. I know more patience is required, but it is tough when we are rock bottom.

 

[Soapy V]

Are you really surprised as other supporters not being as optimistic as you are? For nearly 20 years we have been a basket case with poor recruiting, even poorer development and list management.
With what happened on the weekend, it vindicates this type of negative attitude (rightly or wrongly).

IMO player development and culture (*insert Rhys Palmer tweet) must have something to do with it. Polson and Le bois might be stars in the making at another club with solid development, but I just don't see players developing enough at Carlton and feel they could just end up on the scrapheap in a couple of years. I know more patience is required, but it is tough when we are rock bottom.

All depends how you look at I suppose.

After 20 years of crap I now see a very different club that is atleast embracing the correct process and importantly staying the path. IMO that's a massive positive.

If you had told me when Bolton/SOS started that our list would be where it is now I would have been ecstatic. The young talent is impressive

We now have a clear direction and genuine hope that we can be great again. Will it happen? No one truly knows but we are going to give it a red hot go, we are a chance and that's all people can ask.