Analysis 2019 List, Game Plan and Best 22?

[The Gong]

I agree with all of that, but i think we have overpaid a few , maybe not Parker as much, I agree on his importance

I think from the last few years the biggest learn should be to be a tad more conservative with contracts, pay for what we expect them to do going forward

Yep I'd agree with that. In hindsight the contracts we signed with Tippett, Jack, Reid and even Hanners have come back to bite us. We have the benefit of hindsight so they looked reasonable at the time but we haven't got the return on investment. That's the chance you take with such a high impact sport and the wear and tear it takes on players.

 

[caesar88]

He won the Bob Skilton medal in 2017 and came 2nd in 2018 and you're not happy with his impact the past two seasons? He's one of our most crucial players. They played him forward more this year to support the younger forward line so he didn't play on the ball as much but him and JPK had to do a heap of heavy lifting when they were in the middle because the contribution of other veterans had dropped off dramatically. Sinclair for all his great work around the field wasn't tapping it down their throats either. You get them some help and keep them in the guts and see the difference. Our midfield as a unit struggled and that impacted the performance of both. Too much left to too few.

If you're sitting there expecting a Martin or a Fyfe then you're setting yourself up for disappointment but rest assured Parker is still a gun player.

When did I say I wasn't happy with his impact? I said he struggled to impact in the middle, but that's because I don't think he has it in him to be a full-time midfield bull like a JPK. I don't think he has the kind of spacial awareness required to be that effective in there. He's more like a battering ram that just charges through the pack to get his hands on the pill. Let's not forget, there were plenty of times this year where he was MIA playing as a midfielder, and some on here would be saying "Parker's done nothing", and then ta-da, he's moved to the forward line. So I think it's less to do with Parker supporting the younger players and more to do with Horse just finding the best way to utilise Parker's strengths mid-games.

So yeah Parker is a gun player, I just don't think he's a gun on-baller.

 

[McRobie]

Obviously you are the type that doesn't like people seeing things differently - you are correct 100% of the time and no-one else is allowed an opinion.
Okay then that's cool, perhaps you should end every post with the sentence -
"Don't disagree with me because it pisses me off" then we would all know where we stand.

Maybe just read the initial post more carefully before you comment and then explode.

 

[scaryness]

Hey guys apparently in 2018 Parker played 67% midfield 33% forward. In 2019, with Florent, Hayward, Papley, Menzel, Ronke all potentially in ur best 22, surely there's no need for Parker to spend that much time up forward right?

Or was playing Parker up forward fitness/injury based?

Parker played up forward because of Reid's injury and having no real 2nd tall forward presence. McCartin was 18 years old, Hayward is 19 and isnt dominant in the air. Naismith injury and Tippett retirement also meant Sinclair was unavailable.

Parker has aerial ability, goal sense and a big strong body to be competetive as a deep forward so he was our only real option.

He also injured his elbow in the Richmond game and spent more time forward than normal after that. The Gold Coast game we lost I remember him spending nearly the majority of the 4th quarter as the full forward.

 

[replicant]

103 days to go..

Hope it's enough time for people on here to tell us how they feel about horse and his gameplan.

 

[The Gong]

When did I say I wasn't happy with his impact? I said he struggled to impact in the middle, but that's because I don't think he has it in him to be a full-time midfield bull like a JPK. I don't think he has the kind of spacial awareness required to be that effective in there. He's more like a battering ram that just charges through the pack to get his hands on the pill. Let's not forget, there were plenty of times this year where he was MIA playing as a midfielder, and some on here would be saying "Parker's done nothing", and then ta-da, he's moved to the forward line. So I think it's less to do with Parker supporting the younger players and more to do with Horse just finding the best way to utilise Parker's strengths mid-games.

So yeah Parker is a gun player, I just don't think he's a gun on-baller.

I still think he's very much a gun on-baller for us. He played more forward when he first started and he could certainly add value there again, I don't dispute that, but he's still a contested inside midfielder first. He's not JPK but few players are that sort of elite extractor of the ball.

 

[caesar88]

Pretty strange (scary) to think that Sam Reid is our experienced forward in the best shape for round 1 next year. Buddy and Menzel both delayed, Reid made of paper. Not beyond the realms of possibility that Sinclair and Naismith may be in the same team after all..

 

[scaryness]

They havent even gone away for Christmas holidays yet. 24 hour news cycle creating stories out of nothing. January/Februrary is the real pre-season.

 

[Wolftone]

Truth be told he’s struggled to impact in the midfield the last two years. He’ll have a few games here and there where he’ll look like his 2016 self where he looked Martin-like every time he’d play in the middle. But that’s not the case the majority of the time. I think he’s flexible enough and intelligent enough as a player to know his limitations. He’ll never be that consistently dominant midfielder like JPK, so for him to be a permanent mid would almost be a waste of his other assets, like his marking and his goal sense. For a scrappy bull of a midfielder, he becomes a classy player around goals as a forward. So I’ve personally given up on the tease of Parker becoming a midfield sensation like Fyfe, Martin etc and am perfectly content with this happy medium he’s found where he can only average about 25 touches a game instead of 30+ but still kick 25+ goals in a season.

Partly agree here. The problems we have with our midfield are definitely the coaches fault in the most part. Instead of drafting genuine inside mids to do that job for years we have been trying to turn outside mids into inside mids. Parker does not fit that class of player but it has been much more difficult for players like him and Kennedy as they have had to shoulder the load. His young shoulders would have ached at times.

Hack, Hannas and Harry were all genuine outside players with great pace. First he took Jack and turned him and stuffed his body. Then he got hold of Hannas and turned him and stuffed his body. He hadn't quite finished the job on Harry when we drafted some genuine big bodies and strong but talented inside/outside mids/forwards. So Harry was banished to the HBF then finally found his niche in his natural position on the wing.

Horse does not seem to value outside players. If you are not a scrapper you just don't fit his mould. Hence Rohan to the forward line as a defensive forward and not on the wing or HB line. This is a total defensive mindset.

We now have players with a varied skill set who can go through the mids. Dawson, Rowbottom, Ronke (came to the club as a inside/outside mid), Heeney, Mills, Jones, Lloyd, Thurlow. Florent was a genuine takeaway rover in the U19 but can also play outside as we have seen. Some of the new draftees as well as Stoddart and O'Riordan can provide outside run. But will Horse make the transition to treating outside mids with respect? There are signs he is changing his ideas on this but the transition is taking time. Old people, like me and Horse, find it hard to change.

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[Wolftone]

“Sitting back wondering” is an expression, not in such a literal sense. But he said on numerous occasions this year that the inability of the youngsters to perform consistently was a disadvantage. He’s basically suggesting that it’s only a matter of time before these kids become mature enough to become battle-hardened soldiers that can toil away like the JPKs and Hanneberys and Parkers and ROKs of the world used to. But to me that’s both a cop out on his behalf and unfair to those youngsters. It’s a cop out because in saying that, he’s not acknowledging that by slowing the game down consistently and turning it into a slog, he is literally making the games harder for the kids. And it’s unfair because they will never be like those warriors Horse has always coached; they’re not inside brutes, they’re not big-bodied and made to thrive at stoppages, and so to expect the same capacity from them is unreasonable, even once they are fully developed.

I also disagree that a poor 2018 season would have effected the confidence of our youngsters. To me, they looked most devoid of confidence in matches like the Essendon one, and the second half against the Suns. Matches where the proverbial rug was pulled from under them by a coaching staff (not just Horse) who didn’t show enough faith in what the players were doing, or what they could do. Too many times we went full militant in the shutting down of any kind of run or dare, and youngsters like Florent and Ronke and McCartin looked lost at sea as they were asked to play to a style of footy that did not suit them at all. I can’t imagine how that would be good for their confidence. They’re big boys. They can have a game in their hands and be trusted to win it on their talent. They’d relish that, and if it didn’t end well, it would be a learning block.

I can’t see how meandering through a season where we had no real direction or sign that we had a change in how we would play footy could give our youngsters confidence either. To me this feels like a wasted season in a sense. Yes we pumped senior games into some kids like McCartin, Ronke, continued with Florent, Hayward, Aliir. And yet they’re probably just as in the dark as we are as to what our brand of footy is, what it will look like in 2019 and beyond. I get your point that to go full on attacking mode this season would have been crazy, and completely thrown the boys for a loop. But there needed to be way more of the attacking than what there was. We basically finished the year worse off, more defensive, more cautious, more predictable and more sterile than we did coming into the season.

In fact at times we looked down fight 2005 in our defensive mindset. Low scoring slogs might have suited that particular team but the game has moved on. We have not moved on enough to give the perception there will be any excitement any tome in the near future. I hope I'm wrong but....

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[Wolftone]

Pretty strange (scary) to think that Sam Reid is our experienced forward in the best shape for round 1 next year. Buddy and Menzel both delayed, Reid made of paper. Not beyond the realms of possibility that Sinclair and Naismith may be in the same team after all..

This year I think it will be imperative to play two Ruck men. This is because of the new Ruck rule. An undersized Ruck is not going to cut it. The new rule favours the big guys to an incredible level.

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[connolly]

This year I think it will be imperative to play two Ruck men. This is because of the new Ruck rule. An undersized Ruck is not going to cut it. The new rule favours the big guys to an incredible level.

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Fortunately we have three good big men Naismith, Sinclair and Cameron. Two of them are also good big forwards. Now that our beloved coach can no longer (play a wingman in the ruck - surely he wont) you never know with a quick direct ball movement we will have three strong dangerous marking targets in the forward line. Franklin, Menzel, Sinclair/Cameron. We might actually consistently kick more than 12 goals a match. We can dream.

 

[caesar88]

Heeney and Mills to the midfield builds some steam..

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2018-12-12/heeney-mills-await-big-2019-campaign

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Heeney and Mills to the midfield builds some steam..

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2018-12-12/heeney-mills-await-big-2019-campaign

About time. Great news though

 

[Opts]

Heeney and Mills to the midfield builds some steam..

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2018-12-12/heeney-mills-await-big-2019-campaign

And not a single word about Jones. I'm really concerned that we'll lose him after next season because we've been playing him out of position his whole career. Knowing our trade history, we'd probably get a couple of Craig Birds and a pack of Winnie Blues for him too.

 

[caesar88]

And not a single word about Jones. I'm really concerned that we'll lose him after next season because we've been playing him out of position his whole career. Knowing our trade history, we'd probably get a couple of Craig Birds and a pack of Winnie Blues for him too.

I mean if he wants to return to Victoria I doubt anything will stop him, including the position he plays. I get the need for him in the midfield, but I also don’t understand what we would want of him. He’s tough sure, but he’s not a big, bull-like extractor to play on the inside. And he’s quick sure, but he’s not a classy and composed runner to play on the outside either. So he’d just be this kind of hybrid who bites off more than he can chew.

At least off the half back, he has a clear role where he can thrive. Break a line and clear it out of there. Repeat. His best games, particularly at the G, are when he can use the space of the defensive 50 arcs to create attacking plays. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

 

[Opts]

I mean if he wants to return to Victoria I doubt anything will stop him, including the position he plays. I get the need for him in the midfield, but I also don’t understand what we would want of him. He’s tough sure, but he’s not a big, bull-like extractor to play on the inside. And he’s quick sure, but he’s not a classy and composed runner to play on the outside either. So he’d just be this kind of hybrid who bites off more than he can chew.

At least off the half back, he has a clear role where he can thrive. Break a line and clear it out of there. Repeat. His best games, particularly at the G, are when he can use the space of the defensive 50 arcs to create attacking plays. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

You might be right. I view Jones as being big enough to be the inside mid or second possession player that we need. What does Junior do that Jones can't? Both are tough and love putting their head over the ball with poor disposal. His acceleration and ability to evade players within a few metres is excellent. He's not huge but he's as tough as old boots. Sure, his disposal is average at best but if he can be encouraged to handball to a teammate within 15m instead of chucking it on his boot I think we'd have a winner.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Agree with this, partic

I mean if he wants to return to Victoria I doubt anything will stop him, including the position he plays. I get the need for him in the midfield, but I also don’t understand what we would want of him. He’s tough sure, but he’s not a big, bull-like extractor to play on the inside. And he’s quick sure, but he’s not a classy and composed runner to play on the outside either. So he’d just be this kind of hybrid who bites off more than he can chew.

At least off the half back, he has a clear role where he can thrive. Break a line and clear it out of there. Repeat. His best games, particularly at the G, are when he can use the space of the defensive 50 arcs to create attacking plays. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

Agree. Interesting points about Jones being neither extractor nor skilled outside runner. He might have the makings of a defensive mid. Just worry about his footy smarts.

Personally I'd like Hewett to be given more license in the mids.

 

[scaryness]

Heeney was already a full-time mid this year.

 

[caesar88]

Heeney was already a full-time mid this year.

Correct, I meant Jones and Mills in reference to the link I posted. But point still stands. Mills is still the one I'm keen to see in the thick of it

 

[caesar88]

You might be right. I view Jones as being big enough to be the inside mid or second possession player that we need. What does Junior do that Jones can't? Both are tough and love putting their head over the ball with poor disposal. His acceleration and ability to evade players within a few metres is excellent. He's not huge but he's as tough as old boots. Sure, his disposal is average at best but if he can be encouraged to handball to a teammate within 15m instead of chucking it on his boot I think we'd have a winner.

I've racked my brain and can't figure out who the Junior is that you're referring to?

Only candidate is JPK (wouldn't he be 'the third' not 'junior'?), and you're right, like Jones, he is tough and loves putting his head over the ball, and his disposal is not great. But at least he is built like a brick s**t-house and has superior brute strength to almost any opponent, which makes him prime for the inside to make up for his lack of an outside game. Jones would just be 'good' as an inside/outside midfielder when I think he could be elite as a running half-back.

I don't see Jones as the solution to our midfield woes (a Dawson or a Rowbottom or a Bell would do more for us there), and not only that, but taking him out of the defence would cost us there, too. It would be like plugging one hole by creating another. Jones is one of only three defenders we have who can provide any sort of run from the defensive 50. One is Lloyd, whose been banished to the back pocket, and the other is Aliir, who this year looked less reluctant to use his toe than he did in his debut season. No Jones means even less run, and less players who can clear it out of the defensive 50 where it was stationed for basically entire quarters this year.

 

[The Gong]

And not a single word about Jones. I'm really concerned that we'll lose him after next season because we've been playing him out of position his whole career. Knowing our trade history, we'd probably get a couple of Craig Birds and a pack of Winnie Blues for him too.

He was a defender as a junior. How have we been playing him out of position?

 

[The Gong]

I've racked my brain and can't figure out who the Junior is that you're referring to?

Only candidate is JPK (wouldn't he be 'the third' not 'junior'?), and you're right, like Jones, he is tough and loves putting his head over the ball, and his disposal is not great. But at least he is built like a brick s**t-house and has superior brute strength to almost any opponent, which makes him prime for the inside to make up for his lack of an outside game. Jones would just be 'good' as an inside/outside midfielder when I think he could be elite as a running half-back.

I don't see Jones as the solution to our midfield woes (a Dawson or a Rowbottom or a Bell would do more for us there), and not only that, but taking him out of the defence would cost us there, too. It would be like plugging one hole by creating another. Jones is one of only three defenders we have who can provide any sort of run from the defensive 50. One is Lloyd, whose been banished to the back pocket, and the other is Aliir, who this year looked less reluctant to use his toe than he did in his debut season. No Jones means even less run, and less players who can clear it out of the defensive 50 where it was stationed for basically entire quarters this year.

Lloyd "banished" to the back pocket but remains one of our most important players and won the B&F. Could it be he's in exactly the right position?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Lloyd "banished" to the back pocket but remains one of our most important players and won the B&F. Could it be he's in exactly the right position?

Agree he is one of our best players. However I'd prefer to seem rotate between hbf and wing.

 

[BloodySwan]

Lloyd "banished" to the back pocket but remains one of our most important players and won the B&F. Could it be he's in exactly the right position?

Harley spoke about pushing Lloyd into the midfield during the trade week. I'd expect him to remain in the back half but they seem to rate his disposal usage so wouldn't be surprised to see him pushed up at times as well