NFL 2019 NFL - Wild Card Weekend

[drd23]

Apologies, should have been more specific, was referring specifically to how they officiate hits to QBs and helmet to helmet contact on any player. For the official to now come out and call it incidental does not fly with the application of the rule all season.

The fact that Wentz is a QB is of little consequence in this situation.

And as for the bolded, I still disagree. You're going to need to provide examples to convince me of this

Wentz was also down by contact before the hit,

Maybe in slow-mo, and even then I'd argue that

Clowney's crown of his helmet is about 6 inches off the ground and he leads with it so its lowering and can be argued targeting (which could be an instant ejection).

Argued maybe, but I think you would struggle to find a similar example that was ruled ruled targeting, let alone resulted in an ejection

 

[drd23]

I should clarify that I have zero doubt that Clowney's intention was absolutely to hurt Wentz, but I doubt his intention specifically was to hit him in the head or to concuss him because that is just too hard to do with a moving target in the position they were in.

Would I have argued against it if it was a penalty? No. But I also don't think it's some clear cut penalty that the refs made a major mistake in not flagging. Nor do I think it should have resulted in an ejection, and definitely not a suspension given what has been let go with just a fine in the past.

I also don't think Clowney feels much remorse for what he did end up doing, despite what he told Jason Peters during the game and the media after it

 

[Brasher]

The fact that Wentz is a QB is of little consequence in this situation.

Being outside the pocket as a QB Wentz loses the protection of the one step rule and hits below the knees....he doesn't however now become open slather for helmet to helmet hits.

When I got time, will happily link lesser head shots that resulted on penalties.

 

[Brasher]

I should clarify that I have zero doubt that Clowney's intention was absolutely to hurt Wentz, but I doubt his intention specifically was to hit him in the head or to concuss him because that is just too hard to do with a moving target in the position they were in.

Would I have argued against it if it was a penalty? No. But I also don't think it's some clear cut penalty that the refs made a major mistake in not flagging. Nor do I think it should have resulted in an ejection, and definitely not a suspension given what has been let go with just a fine in the past.

I also don't think Clowney feels much remorse for what he did end up doing, despite what he told Jason Peters during the game and the media after it

100% agree. Although I think it was a clear penalty.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

If a player is knocked out of game via headshot, be it accidental or not should the NFL have some sort of rule that offending player must be, at the very least, ejected if not suspended (by this I mean with any tackle that leads with the helmet, not upright collisions ) ? If you want to clean the game up as they apparently do this would be a starting point and force the players that still do it to cut it out of their game. Leave no grey area whatsoever.

 

[Brasher]

If a player is knocked out of game via headshot, be it accidental or not should the NFL have some sort of rule that offending player must be, at the very least, ejected if not suspended (by this I mean with any tackle that leads with the helmet, not upright collisions ) ? If you want to clean the game up as they apparently do this would be a starting point and force the players that still do it to cut it out of their game. Leave no grey area whatsoever.

I get the sentiment but that's a bridge too far....before we know it we will have players overplaying head knocks to get an opposing star player ejected.

Accidental head knocks will happen anywhere (worst one I ever saw was during a doubles tennis match)...I've always maintained the way to fix the helmet as a weapon issue is to make it illegal to tackle without using your arms.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I get the sentiment but that's a bridge too far....before we know it we will have players overplaying head knocks to get an opposing star player ejected.

Accidental head knocks will happen anywhere (worst one I ever saw was during a doubles tennis match)...I've always maintained the way to fix the helmet as a weapon issue is to make it illegal to tackle without using your arms.

Yea I like the last part. That's why I was bewildered that the Clowney hit received an all clear. No intention whatsoever of using his arms.

Surely if we have booth reviews for DPI we have can have booth reviews on malicious tackles , any that the refs don't pick up in real time that are ejection worthy. You could even keep the game running while there is a review going on and eject the player a play or so later if need be.

 

[Brasher]

The problem I have with most physical contact sports now is that it takes away from those who can be tough and intimidating within the confines of the rules and accepting that in a contact sport where elite physical skills are coveted accidents will happen.

No issue had Clowney used his arms in tackling Wentz and there was an accidental head contact then so be it. But instead Clowney actually tucks in his arms and uses his entire body mass behind his shoulder and helmet to initiate contact.

 

[drd23]

If a player is knocked out of game via headshot, be it accidental or not should the NFL have some sort of rule that offending player must be, at the very least, ejected if not suspended (by this I mean with any tackle that leads with the helmet, not upright collisions ) ? If you want to clean the game up as they apparently do this would be a starting point and force the players that still do it to cut it out of their game. Leave no grey area whatsoever.

I'm not a regular watcher of CFB like someone like aussiedude, but I'm pretty sure that there are a number of farcical applications of the college targeting rule (which is basically what this would be) each year. I don't think that it would fix anything

 

[quotemokc]

I'm not a regular watcher of CFB like someone like aussiedude, but I'm pretty sure that there are a number of farcical applications of the college targeting rule (which is basically what this would be) each year. I don't think that it would fix anything

Look how bad this call was

 

[drd23]

Accidental head knocks will happen anywhere (worst one I ever saw was during a doubles tennis match)...I've always maintained the way to fix the helmet as a weapon issue is to make it illegal to tackle without using your arms.

Too much grey area imo.

I believe the NRL instituted a shoulder charge rule (basically that you can't hip-and-shoulder someone, you have to use your arms), and that didn't seem to stop players basically getting away with a shoulder charge so long as they kinda brought their arms up as if they were trying to wrap their arms around. Given the speed of the game and the different sizes and shapes of the players, it's just not possible to always commit a form tackle and wrap with your arms.

Anything that creates more judgement calls for refs that already struggle to make all the judgement calls they are supposed to make is a bad idea

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Look how bad this call was

Lawerence ducked into it, shocking call. Can't believe it's all that hard to recognise a dirty hit.

 

[Wild Bill]

Yea I like the last part. That's why I was bewildered that the Clowney hit received an all clear. No intention whatsoever of using his arms.

Surely if we have booth reviews for DPI we have can have booth reviews on malicious tackles , any that the refs don't pick up in real time that are ejection worthy. You could even keep the game running while there is a review going on and eject the player a play or so later if need be.

There is no way a player should be ejected for what Clowney did.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

There is no way a player should be ejected for what Clowney did.

Mate, you'd be having kittens if Wilson was on the end of it.

All this does is highlight what a terribly biased supporter you are.

 

[Wild Bill]

Mate, you'd be having kittens if Wilson was on the end of it.

All this does is highlight what a terribly biased supporter you are.

There is debate all over the internet - some saying fair - some saying dirty. On the fair hit side are a lot on non Seahawk fans.


Russ is a lot more durable than Wentz.

Shouldn’t be any debate with ejections.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

There is debate all over the internet - some saying fair - some saying dirty. On the fair hit side are a lot on non Seahawk fans.


Russ is a lot more durable than Wentz.

Shouldn’t be any debate with ejections.

Durability has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Brady is one of the most durable QBs of all time, that doesn't stop the refs throwing flags.

It was a dirty helmet to helmet hit to the back of a players head who shouldn't have expected it was coming. You do the same to any QB and the result is more than likely the same. Not to mention Wentz is actually one of the toughest SOBs playing the game today, threw a TD with his knee ripped to shreds on the previous play vs the Rams a few years ago didn't he? If any QB has shown they'll play through injury he's one of them

 

[aussiedude]

The CFB targeting rule is a bit of a mess too many borderline calls being reviewed and players getting thrown out.

 

[Wild Bill]

Durability has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Brady is one of the most durable QBs of all time, that doesn't stop the refs throwing flags.

It was a dirty helmet to helmet hit to the back of a players head who shouldn't have expected it was coming. You do the same to any QB and the result is more than likely the same. Not to mention Wentz is actually one of the toughest SOBs playing the game today, threw a TD with his knee ripped to shreds on the previous play vs the Rams a few years ago didn't he? If any QB has shown they'll play through injury he's one of them

Never said he wasn’t tough - just not durable.

It’s your opinion that it was dirty. A lot disagree with your opinion.

The fact is - the ref saw a hit to a runner that hadn’t given himself up.

Ejecting a player for that is way over the top - IMO.

 

[Wild Bill]

Look how bad this call was

Wow - imagine this at NFL level. Embarrassing.

 

[manureid]

The issue really is the same hit would be ruled differently by different ref crews and if it was a different qb. If that was Brady or Wilson it was at least a flag and at most and ejection. But guys like Newton and obviously Wentz it is all good. This is where the problem lies.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

The issue really is the same hit would be ruled differently by different ref crews and if it was a different qb. If that was Brady or Wilson it was at least a flag and at most and ejection. But guys like Newton and obviously Wentz it is all good. This is where the problem lies.

Probably true, all the refs get a protected species handbook before reffing their first game.

 

[drd23]

Apologies, should have been more specific, was referring specifically to how they officiate hits to QBs and helmet to helmet contact on any player. For the official to now come out and call it incidental does not fly with the application of the rule all season.

I'm liking the strength of my argument even more now

Obviously this helmet to helmet contact was ruled incidental, and rightly so. The context of the collision and how much of the contact is helmet-to-helmet matters

 

[Brasher]

I'm liking the strength of my argument even more now

Obviously this helmet to helmet contact was ruled incidental, and rightly so. The context of the collision and how much of the contact is helmet-to-helmet matters

I think this also reinforces my argument "Good form in leading w/ hands".....use the arms and I have no issue with incidental head contact.

 

[JZ_Skitzo]

People seem to believe that Wentz was standing in the pocket looking to throw. The rules are completely different once you break the pocket and are a runner.

How often to you hear the clack of helmets hitting incidentally and there's no flag. 75% of plays.

QB scrambling out the pocket. Chance to hit them hard. Defenders always hit them to get them down and so they know they're not going to be allowed to run free. Wilson slides safely feet first and the defenders still get in low on him and there's never a flag.

 

[Wild Bill]

The issue really is the same hit would be ruled differently by different ref crews and if it was a different qb. If that was Brady or Wilson it was at least a flag and at most and ejection. But guys like Newton and obviously Wentz it is all good. This is where the problem lies.

There some decent tin foil hat conspiracy theory in this post. How many players have been ejected for hitting Russ? He is very good at protecting himself - something Wentz needs to learn.