2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[Mutineer]

Both Caldwell and Hately are just like Jones and Ned. All have shown promise but nothing to suggest they're going to be GUNS. That's for the Rowell and Walsh type, to make that claim.

Newchurch being a bolter is good, finally we get some real talent into the club. A lot of you're forgetting about Luke Edwards, big bodied mid already.

We have enough picks to get mids when we want. Borlase and Edwards will be either 2nd or 3rd rounders. Build through the draft, trade later to cover cracks in the next 2 years. Getting 5 new high picks this year will mean we can finally start getting real talent into club.

Patience is required. Trust the recruiters and pray we find some decent developement coaches. Now that is a major need.

You can get set with me re Caldwell not being a gun midfielder....Caldwell now he appears to be over his injury woes is more talented than any mid we're likely to get with any pick other than our first this draft. An injury free Caldwell will have a better career than Sam Walsh IMO, a far more impactful player.

 

[Cleric]

The Crouch brothers are both good players, the only problem is you can’t have them two and Sloane in the same team.... it’s like having triplets playing together. The balance is just not right but they are very good players who make a team that has runners very good. Crows issue is we don’t have run and carry players apart from Mackay, Hamill and Smith and in modern football you need approx football You need approx 8 of these on the wing , middle and running backs and half forwards.

Apparently we couldn't have Lyons and Greenwood either, and we haven't looked back since moving them on.....

 

[briztoon]

My post was accurate. Jack Martin is being paid over $1m this season. I did not specify over what time period he was being paid.

It's also relevant, because Carlton had to tailor a contract specifically to overvalue Martin (in the short term) so other clubs (such as Gold Coast) wouldn't be able to obtain him.

Same situation with Crouch. If a club wants him, they will likely have to front up a contract that is above what he is worth. For Martin, this was a very high short term contract fitting with the PSD and draft rules. With Crouch this would be a high long term contract to fit with free agency rules

Man you keep digging that hole.

It was Melbourne, Carlton were trying to dissuade from picking Martin in the psd.

And Martin signed a $3m 5 year contract. That’s not short term.

 

[Ozzie]

You can get set with me re Caldwell not being a gun midfielder....Caldwell now he appears to be over his injury woes is more talented than any mid we're likely to get with any pick other than our first this draft. An injury free Caldwell will have a better career than Sam Walsh IMO, a far more impactful player.

Mnnnn to quote a friend of mine....he has to SHOW ME.

Bicks, if you like him that much what sort of contract and draft pick(s) would you give for him. I would possibly entertain a future 2nd round.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Both Caldwell and Hately are just like Jones and Ned. All have shown promise but nothing to suggest they're going to be GUNS. That's for the Rowell and Walsh type, to make that claim.

Newchurch being a bolter is good, finally we get some real talent into the club. A lot of you're forgetting about Luke Edwards, big bodied mid already.

We have enough picks to get mids when we want. Borlase and Edwards will be either 2nd or 3rd rounders. Build through the draft, trade later to cover cracks in the next 2 years. Getting 5 new high picks this year will mean we can finally start getting real talent into club.

Patience is required. Trust the recruiters and pray we find some decent developement coaches. Now that is a major need.

So if GWS pick ends up being say pick 12...

youre saying youre happy we if hold onto it and take it to the draft even if it means we lose it to match a bid on Newchurch if he gets picked before 12?..

and you also think Caldwell isnt a gun?..

 

[Thetrader15]

Mnnnn to quote a friend of mine....he has to SHOW ME.

Bicks, if you like him that much what sort of contract and draft pick(s) would you give for him. I would possibly entertain a future 2nd round.

I'd be giving up anything above 15 without thinking about it

 

[Thetrader15]

So if GWS pick ends up being say pick 12...

youre saying youre happy we if hold onto it and take it to the draft even if it means we lose it to match a bid on Newchurch if he gets picked before 12?..

and you also think Caldwell isnt a gun?..

I'll be very interested in where Newchurch goes this draft. His range has been anywhere from top 10 to a 3rd or 4th.

 

[Ozzie]

So if GWS pick ends up being say pick 12...

youre saying youre happy we if hold onto it and take it to the draft even if it means we lose it to match a bid on Newchurch if he gets picked before 12?..

and you also think Caldwell isnt a gun?..

At this stage we have the picks to take Newchurch and to get another mid besides taking one at #2. Assuming Bcrouch leaves which I think he will. Right now I don't think either Hately or Caldwell are guns. Good players sure, but I think there are better to be found.

 

[Mutineer]

Mnnnn to quote a friend of mine....he has to SHOW ME.

Bicks, if you like him that much what sort of contract and draft pick(s) would you give for him. I would possibly entertain a future 2nd round.

I'd give this year's pick 20 and a sweetener without even blinking, highly unlikely there's a midfielder of anywhere near Jye's talent going to be available at our pick 20, unlike you and others I'm not as high on Luke Edwards after watching him this year, I'm not seeing a whole lot of upside to come, he looks the same player that he did as a 16 year old.

 

[Ozzie]

I'd give this year's pick 20 and a sweetener without even blinking, highly unlikely there's a midfielder of anywhere near Jye's talent going to be available at our pick 20, unlike you and others I'm not as high on Luke Edwards after watching him this year, I'm not seeing a whole lot of upside to come, he looks the same player that he did as a 16 year old.

Interesting, I did think of a trade scenario where we traded Matt Crouch plus a future 2nd pick for both Hately and Caldwell with a future 3rd rounder coming to us.

Edwards is supposed to be the pick of Tyson's kids but I wouldn't be surprised if he opted for the draft instead of becoming F/S with us. I did read where he had back problems earlier this year. I hate hearing of young kids having those sort of problems.

If he gives us the flick I'm not interested then because of the above and his heart wouldn't be with us.

 

[Golumless]

So if GWS pick ends up being say pick 12...

youre saying youre happy we if hold onto it and take it to the draft even if it means we lose it to match a bid on Newchurch if he gets picked before 12?..

and you also think Caldwell isnt a gun?..

I'm comfortable running that risk. If it does happen, just quickly organise a downgrade and try to engineer a 2021 pick.

 

[Mutineer]

I'm comfortable running that risk. If it does happen, just quickly organise a downgrade and try to engineer a 2021 pick.

Newchurch would want to have an all time amazing breakout end of the season to command anything like that kind of a bid and with the almost zero chance of the Nationals being held where he gets pitted against the best of his peers I don't think there's much chance of that happening...remembering we get a 20% discount if I remember correctly?

 

[Golumless]

Newchurch would want to have an all time amazing breakout end of the season to command anything like that kind of a bid and with the almost zero chance of the Nationals being held where he gets pitted against the best of his peers I don't think there's much chance of that happening...remembering we get a 20% discount if I remember correctly?

Pretty much, would need to get into the league side and light up a finals series. Even then, that isn't a guarantee to rise him up the draft boards, thinking back to Boyd Woodcock.

We also do have that 20% discount, but the GWS pick would be used if there is a bid before it (as it goes to your next available pick), it would just potentially increase what we get back from a bid.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Let the conspiracy theories begin. Both crouch's form this season has seen them drop in trade and market value.

Last year you could have got 2 first rounders for Brad and top 15 pick for Matt.
This year their form has dipped in not sure clubs will pay big bucks for either as they feel they can get them cheap. Brad's injury history and wanting a long term deal will put off suitors, who feel they could get a Caldwell, hately, constable, Brodie cheaper to play that big bodied inside mid.

Matt being dropped has dipped his value and being perceived as just chasing possessions instead of team options is hurting his value.

You can't compare Martin to either, his younger, more talented and his a quality outside finisher and he's a smoky AA on form this year.

Was just about to post this. The campaign to devalue him and stop the Crows getting band 1 compo has begun in earnest.

Several things in this article are factually incorrect. Saying Crouch is shopping himself around by making those comments for instance, he prefaced that comment by saying he wants to stay at Adelaide, then was specifically asked 'what if it was best for the Crows for you to leave, would you consider it?'. Quote is out of context

It also says negotiations with the Crows are at a standstill - they weren't allowed to negotiate at all until a week or so ago. It's not unreasonable.

It does correctly point out that the Crows are less likely to let him leave for an end of first round pick.

 

[Mutineer]

Let the conspiracy theories begin. Both crouch's form this season has seen them drop in trade and market value.

Last year you could have got 2 first rounders for Brad and top 15 pick for Matt.
This year their form has dipped in not sure clubs will pay big bucks for either as they feel they can get them cheap. Brad's injury history and wanting a long term deal will put off suitors, who feel they could get a Caldwell, hately, constable, Brodie cheaper to play that big bodied inside mid.

Matt being dropped has dipped his value and being perceived as just chasing possessions instead of team options is hurting his value.

You can't compare Martin to either, his younger, more talented and his a quality outside finisher and he's a smoky AA on form this year.

Can't we thread ban this turkey mods, adds sfa to the discussion with his continued tripe.

 

[GrommoT]

So if GWS pick ends up being say pick 12...

youre saying youre happy we if hold onto it and take it to the draft even if it means we lose it to match a bid on Newchurch if he gets picked before 12?..

and you also think Caldwell isnt a gun?..

If that happened, we could trade pick 12 out if we had something lined up - maybe into something including a future pick. It could get tricky for us if we have to sort out Edwards and Borlase - Reid and Ogilvie will have to be in good form and figure the best way forward.

 

[Mego Red]

So if GWS pick ends up being say pick 12...

youre saying youre happy we if hold onto it and take it to the draft even if it means we lose it to match a bid on Newchurch if he gets picked before 12?..

and you also think Caldwell isnt a gun?..

There's zero chance Newchurch goes before 12, surely. He was fourth rounder before this year, and hasn't been great so far.

 

[Bearded Clam]

There's zero chance Newchurch goes before 12, surely. He was fourth rounder before this year, and hasn't been great so far.

there‘s been a few articles in the footy media about him in the last couple of weeks.. some saying he could be a bolter... hopefully not, but we’ll know more as the draft night gets closer.

 

[Bearded Clam]

If that happened, we could trade pick 12 out if we had something lined up - maybe into something including a future pick. It could get tricky for us if we have to sort out Edwards and Borlase - Reid and Ogilvie will have to be in good form and figure the best way forward.

i didnt think we could make a deal like that so quickly... dont you only have a few minutes to decide whether or not to match?... you’d have to have any deals already lined up and you’d think they would still end up with you sacrificing that next pick in line anyway which would defeat the whole purpose right.

all I’m saying that if the GWS pick ends up being around pick 12 and in the weeks and days leading up to trade week Newchurch starts looking like a draft bolter and could go pick before pick 12.. maybe we should trade it for a Caldwell type.. rather that than lose it matching a bid on Newchurch..

 

[GrommoT]

i didnt think we could make a deal like that so quickly... dont you only have a few minutes to decide whether or not to match?... you’d have to have any deals already lined up and you’d think they would still end up with you sacrificing that next pick in line anyway which would defeat the whole purpose right.

all I’m saying that if the GWS pick ends up being around pick 12 and in the weeks and days leading up to trade week Newchurch starts looking like a draft bolter and could go pick before pick 12.. maybe we should trade it for a Caldwell type.. rather that than lose it matching a bid on Newchurch..

Yes, clubs get about 5 minutes once a bid is made to do something. If we expect to be in that situation and plan to trade out, R&O would have something lined up that just needs to wait for the go signal and lodge with AFL house. A few shenanigans like this has already happened last year.

Yes, what you posted is a possibility ... with other possibilities also. I think R&O will have a lot of possibilities they need to deal with and figure out how best to go.

 

[CrowCro]

Who is Ports recruiting guy. They have cleaned up with their three picks this year and also the year before . Their players look like footballers from the first day.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

I am not sure our recruiters will be up to it. I watched Georgiades from Port last night. Picked at 18. Looks ready made for AFL and better than anyone we have picked up the last 3 years including maybe Fog atm. We need to reinforce our recruiting team before the draft. here is one out there, Hire ports recruiter.

 

[Golumless]

I am not sure our recruiters will be up to it. I watched Georgiades from Port last night. Picked at 18. Looks ready made for AFL and better than anyone we have picked up the last 3 years including maybe Fog atm. We need to reinforce our recruiting team before the draft. here is one out there, Hire ports recruiter.

Wouldn't make one iota of a difference. Any player coming into our system would be faced with being coached by Hart and Gooden.

Changing recruiter would just be shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. Our issue is coaching and fitness.

The systems that develop players are key, not the recruiter. Teams who think it's all on the recruiter fail rebuilds.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Man you keep digging that hole.

It was Melbourne, Carlton were trying to dissuade from picking Martin in the psd.

And Martin signed a $3m 5 year contract. That’s not short term.

Read it again.

You completely misunderstood both parts.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Wouldn't make one iota of a difference. Any player coming into our system would be faced with being coached by Hart and Gooden.

Changing recruiter would just be shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. Our issue is coaching and fitness.

The systems that develop players are key, not the recruiter. Teams who think it's all on the recruiter fail rebuilds.

You may be unfair on Godden, I rated him highly at WWT. Hart has not ever had his own team and to say that nor has Nicks prior to the AFC. I see not to many blaming the senior coach when he is the key to selection and tactics. Once he signed on the dotted line he is the one in control and responsible. If he had concerns when he signed he should have been upfront. If he chooses not to pick players its his call. The fitness group seems a problem still.