List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Watch

[JasRulz63]

Current no. of players on the list
Senior list - 34 (2-4 free*)
Rookie (Cat A) - 4 (0-2 free*)
Rookie (Cat B) - 2 (0 free)
Maximum list size of 44. Up to 36-38 senior list, 4-6 category A rookie list and 2 category B rookie list.
* Total of four list spots available, with a minimum of 2 senior list spots needing to be utilised.

List changes
IN: Daniher, Cockatoo, Uosis (R)
OUT: Christensen, Wooller, Allison (R), Skinner (R), Eagles (R), C. Lyons (R), Martin, Witherden, Cox, Hinge.
PROMOTED: Fullarton.
ROOKIED: Birchall, Mathieson, Ballendan.

Current picks
25, 53, 58, 69, 70
(2021 - 1st (MEL), 1st, 3rd (WCE), 3rd, 4th (MEL), 4th (COLL), 5th)

Spoiler: 2020 draft order

Useful links
2020 trade news compendium
List changes, contract status and key dates
2020 draft discussion thread

 

[jackess]

This would be my thoughts too.
They can’t cut the list that much in one year and think it would work?
Otherwise all clubs will be paying out contracts with money they don’t have unless if the AFL are going to pay these contracts out then I just can’t see it working.

And what happens when the injuries start piling up.

 

[briztoon]

List of players who would be feeling very anxious about being out of contract at the end of 2020:

Cedric Cox
Jacob Allison (R)
Toby Wooller
Stefan Martin
Grant Birchall
Mitchell Hinge (R)
Ryan Lester
Allen Christensen
Sam Skinner (R)
Corey Lyons (R)
Matt Eagles (R)

The club may need to pay out a couple of contracts to get to a list of 35.

Can’t imagine there will be too much trading going on this year either.

You could add the three rookies signed on for 2021 to the above list. Madden, Fullerton and Archie Smith.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Martin retires after this season.

That list alone only gets us to 36.

Of that list, I'd be looking to re-contract Martin, Skinner, Lester, Cox and Christensen That brings me back up to 41.

To then get to say 34 players, accounting for one solitary draftee, I'd then pay out (every club will have pay out some players) the following seven players: Ah Chee, McFadyen (or Ellis-Yoleman), Joyce, Madden, Archie Smith, Prior and Fullarton. You'd obviously ask the question of whether any guys would like to move on for more opportunity and I think someone like Mathieson may do it, so if they did, and let's assume Mathieson did, I would keep McFadyen.

Would be a tough exercise nonetheless.

I reckon the club would let all our out of contract players walk before having to pay out contracted players.

I’m right there with you in regards to CEY. And I could be see McFadyen being cut as well.

Surely it'd be 35 plus some sort of supplementary list which we could move players instead of paying them out.

What type of supplementary list?

It looks like us and Gold Coast have the least amount of players out of contract.

Other clubs supporters are talking about having between 14 and 20 odd players out of contract. And not looking at such an extreme situation we’re looking at.

As has been discussed in the media and elsewhere, clubs will be able to call up players from the State leagues, as supplementary players.

 

[Dylan12]

This would be my thoughts too.
They can’t cut the list that much in one year and think it would work?
Otherwise all clubs will be paying out contracts with money they don’t have unless if the AFL are going to pay these contracts out then I just can’t see it working.

Its about saving clubs though.

Reducing list sizes and the excess assistant's and associated staff servicing those extra 12 players will result in at least another 7-8 staff being culled, alone saving a club in excess of $2M per season.

Such decisions are about the long-term survival of the clubs whilst streamlining clubs.

The league has been closely examining the amount of players having played games in a season and on average for well over the past 20 years in consultation with the CEO's of all 18 clubs and 35 players per season is the number that clubs consider is sustainable for their needs in a season.

 

[briztoon]

Its about saving clubs though.

Reducing list sizes and the excess assistant's and associated staff servicing those extra 12 players will result in at least another 7-8 staff being culled, alone saving a club in excess of $2M per season.

Such decisions are about the long-term survival of the clubs whilst streamlining clubs.

The league has been closely examining the amount of players having played games in a season and on average for well over the past 20 years in consultation with the CEO's of all 18 clubs and 35 players per season is the number that clubs consider is sustainable for their needs in a season.

I can understand that rationale, but Caro is reporting lists cut to 30 players by 2022.

 

[Dalions]

And what happens when the injuries start piling up.

Your guess is as good as mine?

 

[jackess]

With smaller lists you’d want flexible players who can cover a few different positions.

I’m guessing there’d be no reserves team with a list of 30.

 

[briztoon]

Its about saving clubs though.

Reducing list sizes and the excess assistant's and associated staff servicing those extra 12 players will result in at least another 7-8 staff being culled, alone saving a club in excess of $2M per season.

Such decisions are about the long-term survival of the clubs whilst streamlining clubs.

The league has been closely examining the amount of players having played games in a season and on average for well over the past 20 years in consultation with the CEO's of all 18 clubs and 35 players per season is the number that clubs consider is sustainable for their needs in a season.

There is another option.

Keep a 40 player list, but still lower the tpp. Players get paid less.

I don’t see a need for the best players to still be able to earn $800k - $1m.

 

[Dylan12]

There is another option.

Keep a 40 player list, but still lower the tpp. Players get paid less.

I don’t see a need for the best players to still be able to earn $800k - $1m.

I'm all for the status quo, don't get me wrong.

I love the fact that we have a reserves team, particularly once Springfield is up and running, and a group of players that you can develop.

Until I see what the proposal is for the alternative i.e. where a club can source supplementary players and how a second tier competition looks across the country and / or in each individual state, I certainly don't want to see smaller list sizes unless convinced otherwise.

 

[lionshine]

I can understand that rationale, but Caro is reporting lists cut to 30 players by 2022.

30 players is ridiculous when 22 play each week. Having only 8 as reserves on the sidelines is not sustainable over the course of a full season.

 

[luthor]

30 players is ridiculous when 22 play each week. Having only 8 as reserves on the sidelines is not sustainable over the course of a full season.

Agree.

It's not uncommon to see injury lists of up to 10 or more for some clubs during the course of a season.

If that were to happen with a list of only 30, you would end up with a club or clubs potentially forfeiting games by not having enough players to take the field.

 

[Dalions]

Agree.

It's not uncommon to see injury lists of up to 10 or more for some clubs during the course of a season.

If that were to happen with a list of only 30, you would end up with a club or clubs potentially forfeiting games by not having enough players to take the field.

I can see it already, radical changes to the AFL as a whole.

16 minute quarters continuing into next year.
16 players on the field at any one time with 4 interchange.
Lists of 30 + 2 Cat B rookie spots.
2 draft picks as a minimum (from next year as there may not be one this year)
With restrictions on trading as well (2 per club)

 

[luthor]

I can see it already, radical changes to the AFL as a whole.

16 minute quarters continuing into next year.
16 players on the field at any one time with 4 interchange.
Lists of 30 + 2 Cat B rookie spots.
2 draft picks as a minimum (from next year as there may not be one this year)
With restrictions on trading as well (2 per club)

Well, if it is a list of only 30, something radical would have to happen alright.

Trouble is , if it's too radical it'll tear the fabric of the game apart.

The last thing the AFL need (if and when the game gets up and running again) is a supporter backlash - ie staying away in droves.

We supporters are collectively a pretty conservative bunch when it comes to preserving the essence of the game.

 

[jackess]

I'm assuming the AFL will want more than 22 matches per side next year to make up for losing games this year

 

[jjami15]

I can see it already, radical changes to the AFL as a whole.

16 minute quarters continuing into next year.
16 players on the field at any one time with 4 interchange.
Lists of 30 + 2 Cat B rookie spots.
2 draft picks as a minimum (from next year as there may not be one this year)
With restrictions on trading as well (2 per club)

I know it’s all talk, but if it does happen. Then this game that I love I’m not sure I could if that happened, especially the 16 a side.

 

[Dalions]

I know it’s all talk, but if it does happen. Then this game that I love I’m not sure I could if that happened, especially the 16 a side.

I agree.
A lot of it is external talk, not the AFL itself.

 

[briztoon]

I agree.
A lot of it is external talk, not the AFL itself.

I’m pretty sure Twomey, Caro and Niall are getting their information from the AFL and club land.

 

[Dalions]

I’m pretty sure Twomey, Caro and Niall are getting their information from the AFL and club land.

Mmmmm, so they say!
Would all just be to gather Public opinion?

 

[Dylan12]

Mmmmm, so they say!
Would all just be to gather Public opinion?

I was told from someone with the AFL, so would the likes of Caroline Wilson etc.

 

[briztoon]

Mmmmm, so they say!
Would all just be to gather Public opinion?

Well Niall interviewed Gil, and provided quotes in his article.

Caro and Niall did a podcast with Jimmy Bartel who is on the GWS board, and it sounds like he has a more hands on role as well. Then next day Caro put out an article based on the stuff Bartel said in the podcast, then went in to more detail.

And Twomey writes for AFL.com, which is based in AFL house, and much of what he writes has been corroborated by Niall and Carro.

And then you have Gils half our interview on SEN today.

Don’t know what else you want.


I don’t disagree there’s a high level of nepotism between certain AFL writers and AFL house, and that AFL house certainly uses certain reporters to put information out there, and then assess the reaction.

 

[Dalions]

Well Niall interviewed Gil, and provided quotes in his article.

Caro and Niall did a podcast with Jimmy Bartel who is on the GWS board, and it sounds like he has a more hands on role as well. Then next day Caro put out an article based on the stuff Bartel said in the podcast, then went in to more detail.

And Twomey writes for AFL.com, which is based in AFL house, and much of what he writes has been corroborated by Niall and Carro.

And then you have Gils half our interview on SEN today.

Don’t know what else you want.


I don’t disagree there’s a high level of nepotism between certain AFL writers and AFL house, and that AFL house certainly uses certain reporters to put information out there, and then assess the reaction.

I am not doubting they have their connections.
But as I mentioned, if these are being leaked strategically, it is to gauge public reaction.
I am also not doubting the drop in list size, I think that is a very real thing.

As for me wanting more?
I don’t need anything, other than for Corona Virus to go away.

 

[trikster]

Other clubs supporters are talking about having between 14 and 20 odd players out of contract. And not looking at such an extreme situation we’re looking at.

But look at that conversely ... they have bigger problems than us because they will have "must keep" players on the out of contract list meaning they will have to get rid of players still under contract. Probably costs them more than us with paying out contracts.

 

[Ralphy2017]

I'm assuming the AFL will want more than 22 matches per side next year to make up for losing games this year

Agree, and believe the players would agree with this. Get rid of the pre-season (unless the sponsorship is lucrative) The NRL play around 25 or 26 rounds plus 3 origins, and you could argue that league is physically more brutal.
Will the AFL elite players take pay cuts to keep larger list and work with the reduced salary cap? If not list sizes of 35 very possible as soon as next year with 16 min Qs. 2022 could see slightly further reductions in list sizes, and possible implementation of 16 players + 4 or 5 on the bench. Field sizes are basically the same as 50 years ago but footballers are stronger, fitter and can cover the field so 16 in lieu of 18 might open the game up.

 

[martinson]

I don't really think anyone including the AFL is sure what the competition will look like when this is over especially if it's over for 2020.

Nor do they really know what effect it has had on the psyche of the public and what changes to the comp would be tolerated without backlash until this pandemic is controlled and everyone can get back to a more normal life.

I can see 16 a side like the old VFA if they want to reduce lists . It's highly unlikely 18 teams can support the lists and staff they had before this hit. But at present it's all conjectural . Lot of water to pass under the bridge before any of the considerations being put up now will pass muster.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Concussion-free McCartin aiming for AFL return

'I can just return to training as a full player'

wwos.nine.com.au

I'd take him, even if our list goes down to 35. He went #1 for a reason, his raw talent is surely higher than any of our current reserve forwards.

 

[briztoon]

Concussion-free McCartin aiming for AFL return

'I can just return to training as a full player'

wwos.nine.com.au

I'd take him, even if our list goes down to 35. He went #1 for a reason, his raw talent is surely higher than any of our current reserve forwards.

Seriously?

Again, I’m not a medical professional, so my opinion means diddly squat.

I just can’t see how he’s not at a greater risk than other players.

The last blow to his head that saw him sidelined was a glancing blow, that players receive 5 times a game. It was “soft” in the context of the game.

There were also concerns about if his diabetes were impacting on his ability to get in to proper playing shape.