Prediction 2021 Consensus Best 22 [DONE FOR ANOTHER YEAR]

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Jabba73

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 11, 2009
28,113
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Echuca
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Carlton
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Vixens
Exactly right, we shouldn't be picking based on potential anymore, it's all about runs on the board.
Don’t want us gifting games to guys because they have been at the club for longer or are older, still need to earn your spot regardless of previous service.

Would rather play someone with 10 years left in their career who can learn from the experience, than someone looking to eke out a few more games to reach a milestone.
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

FitzroyBlueBagger
Sep 30, 2018
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Anyone else think we would be too tall or slow in the back line with Weiters, Jones, Marchy and Plowman?
IMO way unbalanced, it’s not purely their height that’s the problem it’s the restrictions it forces onto the side, less run both ways, less chasing down pressure, top heavy against running teams... ridiculous playing too many slowish tall players in the one team we will be carved up once again on the outside or rebound...
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
14,151
22,304
AFL Club
Carlton
March and Newman - whilst playing for the same spot here - are quite different players.

I went Newman for Balance AND for runs on the board. I've voted March in our 22 x 3 years running and we've been let down every time.

Until such time as he proves he can stay fit and earns a spot on field, I'm done giving votes to him and other guys on promise and potential.

Same should go for the MC. Make Dow, LOB, March, Kemp - all of them - earn their spot.

Marchy has not done enough to earn a Best 22 spot off the back of so much missed footy. Newman has (just) and has far more footy under his belt.

That was my thinking anyway.
If you're going to be using fitness as a guiding factor, not sure how you can have Newman in.
The last time he played was June 13th, when he managed 2 kicks before he ruptured his patella tendon. At least Marchbank was training.
 

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Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
14,151
22,304
AFL Club
Carlton
IMO way unbalanced, it’s not purely their height that’s the problem it’s the restrictions it forces onto the side, less run both ways, less chasing down pressure, top heavy against running teams... ridiculous playing too many slowish tall players in the one team we will be carved up once again on the outside or rebound...
It's a similar argument to those who say Plowman can't play on the Cameron types, when he carves them up.

The best way to defend is to intercept the ball.
And Saad adds the linebreaking.
 

Ash24

Team Captain
Nov 3, 2020
380
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If you're going to be using fitness as a guiding factor, not sure how you can have Newman in.
The last time he played was June 13th, when he managed 2 kicks before he ruptured his patella tendon. At least Marchbank was training.
Marchbank was recovering from bone bruising during a Marsh game in February. He didn't get over it until late in the season, which at that point he did his hamstring straight away. Played an average of 9 games across his 5 years at the club, which works out to him being fit for over his career, just over 40% of each season. I don't understand how people can have him a lock in the best 22 when he hasn't played any footy for almost 2 years.

Newman has ranked over his career more disposals, kicks, handballs, inside 50s, rebound 50s, effective kicks, effective disposals, metres gained, contested possessions, uncontested possessions, ground ball gets, centre clearances, stoppage clearances, marks, goals, goal assists, goal accuracy, score involvements, score launches, tackles, tackles i50 and pressure acts compared to Marchy.

I love Caleb, but I don't think he's in our best 22 at the moment.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
19,069
31,878
AFL Club
Carlton
Wings are my only concern ( along with Charlie of course) - we will be wasting Saad/Docherty combo if we play defensive wing strategy - we are going to need some speed and spread - because we will be clearly winning the battle against most forward lines - and with Saad comong the rebound options have just grown enormously - I really hope Teague goes for blokes who can actually make the best out of the rebound capability we have developed now...

I can make an argument for Marchbank over Newman (or vica versa) - but Plow and SPS have to be thinking the competition for spots has just gone up a notch - Marchbank is fit, Newman is fit - and Kemp is going to be developed in VFL as a defender...and Amos LOVES Levi.

I really really rate our defensive options definite finals quality no doubt in my mind - depth box is ticked too.

tbh - I dont really care who gets first crack - we all knwo the lock ins are : Weitering | Jones |Plowman|Docherty|Saad...

it is a battle between Marchbank|Newman|SPS for 2/3 remaing sopts - sound argument(s) can be made for any of these 3 to be included - and make their mark playing their own game.
 

TerryWallet

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 27, 2008
12,428
33,685
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
IMO way unbalanced, it’s not purely their height that’s the problem it’s the restrictions it forces onto the side, less run both ways, less chasing down pressure, top heavy against running teams... ridiculous playing too many slowish tall players in the one team we will be carved up once again on the outside or rebound...

Richmond play Balta, Grimes, Astbury, Broad and Vlastuin.

Geelong play Taylor, Henderson, Kolodjasni, Henry, O'Connor, Stewart and often Blicavs.

We are in no way unbalanced on the too tall, too slow scale by playing Weiters, Jones, Marchbank and Plowman.

For whatever reasons, backlines seem to be getting bigger and forward lines smaller. Probably because every gameplan these days is based around field dominance. Keep it in the forward line more with ground pressure. And win it back in defense with marking.

Everything is arse abouts these days. Tall forwards don't attempt to mark but get it to ground. Backs have to be great marks. Halfbacks are your attacking types. Half forwards more defensive. The game, and the positions within have turned on their head in some instances.

Weird game.

But back to the point, i don't think Weiters, Jones, Marchbank and Plow with 2 running types is unbalanced at all for a modern backline. Or a time honoured September backline either for that matter.
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

FitzroyBlueBagger
Sep 30, 2018
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It's a similar argument to those who say Plowman can't play on the Cameron types, when he carves them up.

The best way to defend is to intercept the ball.
And Saad adds the linebreaking.
Plowman is a different discussion altogether, one that i think he does fine in but as a collective our backline is slow it offers little natural rebounding players and we are shown up for a lack of speed or incapable of chasing down quick players defensively...
We need to start forming a style of offensive run that not only depends on Saad being our main running weapon from D50, I’m more worried with improving our pressure without the ball chasing down opposition sides with nibble/pacey players particularly forwards is a fair weakness of ours...
 

GapInIkonPark

Premiership Player
Nov 22, 2015
3,414
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Would McGovern make the Back 7 or is he back up if required?

Great versatility with SPS and either Willa or Marchbank on the pine.
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
14,151
22,304
AFL Club
Carlton
Plowman is a different discussion altogether, one that i think he does fine in but as a collective our backline is slow it offers little natural rebounding players and we are shown up for a lack of speed or incapable of chasing down quick players defensively...
We need to start forming a style of offensive run that not only depends on Saad being our main running weapon from D50, I’m more worried with improving our pressure without the ball chasing down opposition sides with nibble/pacey players particularly forwards is a fair weakness of ours...
This really hasn't been a problem with our defence. Chasing in the midfield, sure, but not the backline.
If Plow is ok, then how is 2 key backs (1 of them very quick) and an intercepting 3rd tall too tall and slow?
And with Docherty, Saad, and Willo or Samo, we should not have a problem bringing the ball out.
 

Jabba73

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 11, 2009
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Would McGovern make the Back 7 or is he back up if required?

Great versatility with SPS and either Willa or Marchbank on the pine.
Brackets needs to get fit and lift his intensity or he will be playing in the reserves.

He is lucky we don’t have our first choice tall forwards all available at the same time.
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

FitzroyBlueBagger
Sep 30, 2018
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Richmond play Balta, Grimes, Astbury, Broad and Vlastuin.

Geelong play Taylor, Henderson, Kolodjasni, Henry, O'Connor, Stewart and often Blicavs.

We are in no way unbalanced on the too tall, too slow scale by playing Weiters, Jones, Marchbank and Plowman.

For whatever reasons, backlines seem to be getting bigger and forward lines smaller. Probably because every gameplan these days is based around field dominance. Keep it in the forward line more with ground pressure. And win it back in defense with marking.

Everything is arse abouts these days. Tall forwards don't attempt to mark but get it to ground. Backs have to be great marks. Halfbacks are your attacking types. Half forwards more defensive. The game, and the positions within have turned on their head in some instances.

Weird game.

But back to the point, i don't think Weiters, Jones, Marchbank and Plow with 2 running types is unbalanced at all for a modern backline. Or a time honoured September backline either for that matter.
You can through up all the different combinations you like TW, too be honest ‘in a nice way’ i couldn’t care less, i just see it differently, people have continually bought up great sides with multiple defefenders all over 190cm plus but most of them have contained great one on one quick agile skilled that pressure chase and rebound, the point i was making was not just the height and the players abilities but just as important their deficiencies as well...👍
 

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FitzroyBlueBagger

FitzroyBlueBagger
Sep 30, 2018
3,398
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Carlton
This really hasn't been a problem with our defence. Chasing in the midfield, sure, but not the backline.
If Plow is ok, then how is 2 key backs (1 of them very quick) and an intercepting 3rd tall too tall and slow?
And with Docherty, Saad, and Willo or Samo, we should not have a problem bringing the ball out.
I’ll continue this tomorrow Stamos, sorrry I’m buggard need to hit the sack for work 👍
 

TerryWallet

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 27, 2008
12,428
33,685
Melbourne
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Carlton
You can through up all the different combinations you like TW, too be honest ‘in a nice way’ i couldn’t care less, i just see it differently, people have continually bought up great sides with multiple defefenders all over 190cm plus but most of them have contained great one on one quick agile skilled that pressure chase and rebound, the point i was making was not just the height and the players abilities but just as important their deficiencies as well...👍

Yeah, all good. Not here to change minds. Just giving mine, and reading others, and conversing now and then.

I just don't see how Newman offers more than Marchbank in the areas you want. Marchbank is a better runner than Newman. Newman is not quick and not agile. The only thing Newman has over Marchbank is a better outlet kick imo. And he's not over great at that either.

Newman is ok, but i think Marchbank offers more to the back 6 and the team. Of course both need to stay fit first.
 

Kreuuuzeurns

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
5,307
8,256
AFL Club
Carlton
Despite his size I don’t think the club see Plowman as a tall at all, he rarely does take anyone the same size or bigger than him and is often on the most dangerous small. For that reason I see a spot for all four of Weitering, Jones, Marchbank and Plowman.

Very similar to Nathan Broad who has Balta, Grimes and Astbury ahead of him in the traditional FB/CHB/3rd tall roles. Broad is 192cm. A modern backline is as much about chopping out and setting up a zone as it is the individual matchups.

EDIT: Just read up and saw this point raised. Geelong another good example.

Docherty on one flank, Saad on the other and Newman/SPS/the rest fighting for a bench spot, unless the word is true and Saad pushes to a wing which I don’t mind.
 

Blue Rising 21

Debutant
Nov 16, 2020
54
91
AFL Club
Carlton
He will start in round 1.
I know he has had first dibs so far since joining Carlton. But the evidence has now built so much on his output, I just think 2021 will see both JSOS and Kennedy in front of him selection wise. If not, we simply have to downgrade our rating on both the fwd coach and head coach.

No one is saying McGovern can’t be good....just that current evidence says he is terrible in output and approach And should not receive first crack.
 

BigBreakfast

Premiership Player
Sep 19, 2019
3,955
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Carlton
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Despite his size I don’t think the club see Plowman as a tall at all, he rarely does take anyone the same size or bigger than him and is often on the most dangerous small. For that reason I see a spot for all four of Weitering, Jones, Marchbank and Plowman.

Very similar to Nathan Broad who has Balta, Grimes and Astbury ahead of him in the traditional FB/CHB/3rd tall roles. Broad is 192cm. A modern backline is as much about chopping out and setting up a zone as it is the individual matchups.

EDIT: Just read up and saw this point raised. Geelong another good example.

Docherty on one flank, Saad on the other and Newman/SPS/the rest fighting for a bench spot, unless the word is true and Saad pushes to a wing which I don’t mind.
Like as in really like.
 

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