List Mgmt. 2022 List Management: Draft, Trade and FA

[Superkoops]

Of those ex-Freo players only Pina plays for a NGA-aligned club. The others may well be in West Coast’s sights though.

Our five train-ons all play for NGA-aligned clubs as do Strom and Derkson who the AFL knocked back. The issue with Strom and Derkson is that they didn’t nominate for the draft - the AFL may not care as much when they’re not actually becoming part of our list.

Assuming the AFL allows us to place them on our top-up list, I guess as follows:
Peel: Luke Polsen, Wade Derkson, Tyrone Thorne, Lachlan Cullen
South Freo: Blake Schlensog, Zac Strom, Toby McQuilkin, Tom Blechynden
Claremont: Bailey Rogers, Jye Bolton, Oliver Eastland, Ronin O’Connor
West Perth: Tyler Keitel, Luke Meadows, Noah Pegoraro, Ben Johnson
East Freo: Jeremy Goddard, Josh Schoenfeld, Jarrad Jansen, Jonathon Marsh.

Good mix for me, although I struggled with East Freo tbh (Thanks West Coast).

I’ve not heard that they are allocating clubs (that is how SANFL allocation is happening). I’ve read the Eagles and Dockers wish to have a draft, and that is why nothing has been confirmed as yet.

I would expect Watson and Giro to be names we would be looking at given they could slot in and know our systems. Then the Peel fellas and the guys that have been training with us (although West Coast would also be interested in Schlensog, and Rogers I would expect). Also sounds like Peel and West Coast reserves probably won’t be part of teams included in the draft.

So 4 players total from each of the remaining 8 clubs.

 

[Square Peg]

That's exactly what I expect will happen. General soreness will mean players are on "restricted minutes" in the WAFL and can't be considered for AFL selection. Restricting them to just 95 minutes of game time that weekend.

The avenue I haven't seen people talking about yet is what happens if you field a player who is thirty from the WAFL and offer him a job under the table for after football if he takes out a key opposition player? His suspension doesn't impact your list, but it can really impact someone else's.

I can guarantee you there is no way a club is going to get away with playing a listed player for 95 minutes in the VFL/WAFL/SANFL and use a top up unlisted player in the AFL. That's fantasy.

 

[Taylor]

I can guarantee you there is no way a club is going to get away with playing a listed player for 95 minutes in the VFL/WAFL/SANFL and use a top up unlisted player in the AFL. That's fantasy.

I don't think there will be enough interest in policing that for anything to ever come of it. A key position player could be on the field for 95 minutes and spend the ends of the quarters on the bench and "going down to the rooms with trainers" and nothing will come of it.

The caveat being that if Subi player who was about to retire took the field for Amiss and then knocked out Weitering, breaking his jaw and concussing him before a qualifying final which might/would be against us too, then it gets looked at when he is working for Woodside two hours a week on $80,000 the following season.

 

[Square Peg]

I don't think there will be enough interest in policing that for anything to ever come of it. A key position player could be on the field for 95 minutes and spend the ends of the quarters on the bench and "going down to the rooms with trainers" and nothing will come of it.

The caveat being that if Subi player who was about to retire took the field for Amiss and then knocked out Weitering, breaking his jaw and concussing him before a qualifying final which might/would be against us too, then it gets looked at when he is working for Woodside two hours a week on $80,000 the following season.

You need a coffee

 

[DragoDelph]

Why do we think bringing in d-grade players for a week or two, who don’t know the game plan , is something clubs would willingly WANT to do.

It’s a last resort, for a reason.

 

[theGav56]

This is wrong. Fyfe didn't play for Peel last week, so wasn't fit.
The rule is simple, if you have a fragile Benning type player on your list and he is fit but last man standing, he plays AFL this week not Peel. You only use your top ups if you literally have no one fit to play. Yes it will be exploited - you can fake a Benning injury in this circumstance and he plays for no one. But in no way should a player on a AFL list that is fit be usurped by someone not on a list.

is that the rule? it reads very much like an interpretation of a rule, which is the problem.

Setting up a poor rule which "will be exploited " is miles away from being good management, and moreso if it potentially puts players at risk.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I don't think there will be enough interest in policing that for anything to ever come of it. A key position player could be on the field for 95 minutes and spend the ends of the quarters on the bench and "going down to the rooms with trainers" and nothing will come of it.

The caveat being that if Subi player who was about to retire took the field for Amiss and then knocked out Weitering, breaking his jaw and concussing him before a qualifying final which might/would be against us too, then it gets looked at when he is working for Woodside two hours a week on $80,000 the following season.

Taylor, you know that not every person on the Earth is an inherently evil piece of shit right?

 

[wayToGo_]

It is pretty obvious the top up program is because the AFL are worried Bill Gates is going to put a massive bet on one team and then "activate" the vaccination chips inside all the players in the other teams rendering those players inoperable.

 

[Van_Dyke]

Taylor, you know that not every person on the Earth is an inherently evil piece of sh*t right?

that hypothetical would be so scandalous if it were to happen, those involved if caught and exposed would probably never take any part in the league again

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

that hypothetical would be so scandalous if it were to happen, those involved if caught and exposed would probably never take any part in the league again

It would also need at least 5 people to be complete sociopaths as well as trusting enough to even broach the topic in the first place knowing it is highly likely whoever you first broach the idea to is going to never look at you or trust you again.

 

[Taylor]

Considering the possible far down the list outcomes of rules thrown together isn't an exercise of expectations, it's a practice of determining consequences of outcomes.

 

[Taylor]

Taylor, you know that not every person on the Earth is an inherently evil piece of sh*t right?

Almost everyone is good, but things happen.

 

[wakojako]

Last season Switta kicked 9 goals from 12 games (0.8 average). He does have elite attributes but needs to score more this season. I would love to get a player like Koz but hopefully Switta can up his scoring.

 

[theGav56]

Considering the possible far down the list outcomes of rules thrown together isn't an exercise of expectations, it's a practice of determining consequences of outcomes.

This season those "consequences of outcomes" includes the potential to determine who wins the flag.

 

[theGav56]

Last season Switta kicked 9 goals from 12 games (0.8 average). He does have elite attributes but needs to score more this season. I would love to get a player like Koz but hopefully Switta can up his scoring.

I think the problem is less about individual players and more about strategy. That's why we brought Graham in and are working on midfield transition.

 

[wakojako]

I think the problem is less about individual players and more about strategy. That's why we brought Graham in and are working on midfield transition.

Hopefully you are correct! I am excited to see what this new system will do for us. Because our forwardline has issues we need to be able to spread our scoring across the mids, smalls, medium and tall forwards. That is why it is so important to get Sturt and Treacy up and running.

 

[nurries]

Last season Switta kicked 9 goals from 12 games (0.8 average). He does have elite attributes but needs to score more this season. I would love to get a player like Koz but hopefully Switta can up his scoring.

If he can bring his pressure and kick 1.5 gpg I would consider that elite for a small forward

 

[theGav56]

Hopefully you are correct! I am excited to see what this new system will do for us. Because our forwardline has issues we need to be able to spread our scoring across the mids, smalls, medium and tall forwards. That is why it is so important to get Sturt and Treacy up and running.

Leaving out those guys I will still be very disappointed if we cannot improve our forward production.

Walters Taberner Schultz
Frederick Lobb Switkowski

That is a mature forward set up, a fair proportion of which have had contract extensions. If the club doesn't have faith in them our list management has questions to answer.

But if they are failing I hope the club acts quickly and puts something along the lines of the following in place;

Erasmus Taberner Amiss/Chapman
Frederick Cox Switkowski

 

[Dockeroo]

I think the problem is less about individual players and more about strategy. That's why we brought Graham in and are working on midfield transition.

Disagree on this, specifically around the small forwards that we have. I don’t believe they are good enough as a unit to play in a flag winning team. That’s not a slight against them - let’s look at the relative amount of draft capital invested in this area of the ground to get the options we have:
Michael Walters - pick 53 in 2008. Obviously he’s been a star but we hit the jackpot with a pick in the 50s 14 years ago now. Looking to the future, he’s clearly on the wane but still our best small forward in 2022 IMO.
Sam Switkowski - pick 73 as a mature ager in 2017. Very solid player for the position he was taken in the draft. That kind of pick is a total Hail Mary shot though. Despite what champion data says, until he starts kicking 2 goals a game or so, you can’t call him elite.
Lachie Schultz - pick 58 mature ager in 2018. Another solid return so far for the size of the draft investment. Won’t be troubling the AA selectors anytime soon however.
Trav Colyer - future fourth round pick to Essendon in 2018 I think he cost. Good solid citizen again and providing a decent return for what we invested to get him (pretty much nothing).
Michael Frederick - pick 63 in 2019 and looking like a steal. Very promising start to this season but he’s not really a small forward. More of a lead up medium forward what’s hard to match up on.
Mitch Crowden - pick 59 in 2017. Not bad for his draft pick range. Not a world beater though and not really a small forward either. More of a half forward flanker.
Liam Henry - pick 9 matched bid in 2019. probably the only one where substantial draft capital was invested. Also despite having the tag “best small forward in the draft” at the time, he seems to be heading down a different path as a winger/half forward flanker at Fremantle.
Joel Western - pick 54 in 2020, yet to really make much of an impact but early days in fairness to him.

When you look at the top sides like Brisbane, Bulldogs, Dees, they all went and invested significantly in a proper crumbing small forward. Cameron (traded pick 12 to Adelaide), weightman (pick 13) and Pickett (pick 12). We rightly or wrongly have chosen to try fill this area in the cheap with junk picks while spending out top picks on more mids and half backs than those sides like Brayshaw, Cerra, Serong, Young, Chapman, Erasmus, Johnson. For example, would our list look better if we’d taken Kozzie Pickett at 7 in 2020 instead of Hayden Young? Of if we’d grabbed Ian hill instead of sam Sturt in 2018? Maybe, a lot to play out there still.
At the end of the day, if the strategy we have chosen wins a flag then we will look like genuises.
Personally I would love to see us spend our first round pick next year (likely to be around pick 12 or so) on a player like Rachele, or Pickett or even Weightman. Or even trade it for a 23-24 year old elite small forward like Brisbane did with Charlie Cameron in 2018, but only if the right player is available.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Almost everyone is good, but things happen.

“Things”

 

[wakojako]

Disagree on this, specifically around the small forwards that we have. I don’t believe they are good enough as a unit to play in a flag winning team. That’s not a slight against them - let’s look at the relative amount of draft capital invested in this area of the ground to get the options we have:
Michael Walters - pick 53 in 2008. Obviously he’s been a star but we hit the jackpot with a pick in the 50s 14 years ago now. Looking to the future, he’s clearly on the wane but still our best small forward in 2022 IMO.
Sam Switkowski - pick 73 as a mature ager in 2017. Very solid player for the position he was taken in the draft. That kind of pick is a total Hail Mary shot though. Despite what champion data says, until he starts kicking 2 goals a game or so, you can’t call him elite.
Lachie Schultz - pick 58 mature ager in 2018. Another solid return so far for the size of the draft investment. Won’t be troubling the AA selectors anytime soon however.
Trav Colyer - future fourth round pick to Essendon in 2018 I think he cost. Good solid citizen again and providing a decent return for what we invested to get him (pretty much nothing).
Michael Frederick - pick 63 in 2019 and looking like a steal. Very promising start to this season but he’s not really a small forward. More of a lead up medium forward what’s hard to match up on.
Mitch Crowden - pick 59 in 2017. Not bad for his draft pick range. Not a world beater though and not really a small forward either. More of a half forward flanker.
Liam Henry - pick 9 matched bid in 2019. probably the only one where substantial draft capital was invested. Also despite having the tag “best small forward in the draft” at the time, he seems to be heading down a different path as a winger/half forward flanker at Fremantle.
Joel Western - pick 54 in 2020, yet to really make much of an impact but early days in fairness to him.

When you look at the top sides like Brisbane, Bulldogs, Dees, they all went and invested significantly in a proper crumbing small forward. Cameron (traded pick 12 to Adelaide), weightman (pick 13) and Pickett (pick 12). We rightly or wrongly have chosen to try fill this area in the cheap with junk picks while spending out top picks on more mids and half backs than those sides like Brayshaw, Cerra, Serong, Young, Chapman, Erasmus, Johnson. For example, would our list look better if we’d taken Kozzie Pickett at 7 in 2020 instead of Hayden Young? Of if we’d grabbed Ian hill instead of sam Sturt in 2018? Maybe, a lot to play out there still.
At the end of the day, if the strategy we have chosen wins a flag then we will look like genuises.
Personally I would love to see us spend our first round pick next year (likely to be around pick 12 or so) on a player like Rachele, or Pickett or even Weightman. Or even trade it for a 23-24 year old elite small forward like Brisbane did with Charlie Cameron in 2018, but only if the right player is available.

Small forwards are generally pacey and bring the tackling pressure to keep the ball locked in. We can be less dependent on small forwards if we can get Sturt and Freddy firing. Having more competent talls will also help with this.

 

[theGav56]

Disagree on this, specifically around the small forwards that we have. I don’t believe they are good enough as a unit to play in a flag winning team. That’s not a slight against them - let’s look at the relative amount of draft capital invested in this area of the ground to get the options we have:
Michael Walters - pick 53 in 2008. Obviously he’s been a star but we hit the jackpot with a pick in the 50s 14 years ago now. Looking to the future, he’s clearly on the wane but still our best small forward in 2022 IMO.
Sam Switkowski - pick 73 as a mature ager in 2017. Very solid player for the position he was taken in the draft. That kind of pick is a total Hail Mary shot though. Despite what champion data says, until he starts kicking 2 goals a game or so, you can’t call him elite.
Lachie Schultz - pick 58 mature ager in 2018. Another solid return so far for the size of the draft investment. Won’t be troubling the AA selectors anytime soon however.
Trav Colyer - future fourth round pick to Essendon in 2018 I think he cost. Good solid citizen again and providing a decent return for what we invested to get him (pretty much nothing).
Michael Frederick - pick 63 in 2019 and looking like a steal. Very promising start to this season but he’s not really a small forward. More of a lead up medium forward what’s hard to match up on.
Mitch Crowden - pick 59 in 2017. Not bad for his draft pick range. Not a world beater though and not really a small forward either. More of a half forward flanker.
Liam Henry - pick 9 matched bid in 2019. probably the only one where substantial draft capital was invested. Also despite having the tag “best small forward in the draft” at the time, he seems to be heading down a different path as a winger/half forward flanker at Fremantle.
Joel Western - pick 54 in 2020, yet to really make much of an impact but early days in fairness to him.

When you look at the top sides like Brisbane, Bulldogs, Dees, they all went and invested significantly in a proper crumbing small forward. Cameron (traded pick 12 to Adelaide), weightman (pick 13) and Pickett (pick 12). We rightly or wrongly have chosen to try fill this area in the cheap with junk picks while spending out top picks on more mids and half backs than those sides like Brayshaw, Cerra, Serong, Young, Chapman, Erasmus, Johnson. For example, would our list look better if we’d taken Kozzie Pickett at 7 in 2020 instead of Hayden Young? Of if we’d grabbed Ian hill instead of sam Sturt in 2018? Maybe, a lot to play out there still.
At the end of the day, if the strategy we have chosen wins a flag then we will look like genuises.
Personally I would love to see us spend our first round pick next year (likely to be around pick 12 or so) on a player like Rachele, or Pickett or even Weightman. Or even trade it for a 23-24 year old elite small forward like Brisbane did with Charlie Cameron in 2018, but only if the right player is available.

Our forward line is a mature group of players so their draft selections have very little relevance. Plus Amiss and Erasmus are both forwards if that is what Longmuir wants them to be. Henry too. Chapman as well.

The real point of my post is that our performance can improve regardless of personnel. We do dumb things. Darcy thundering sideways into a marking contest in which he had no realistic play and colliding with a teammate who is contesting for a mark is a familiar type of event for us.

And we are remarking on Frederick turning into a lead up forward, which has been a rarity for us. Smart play. Almost certainly benefiting from better forward - midfield strategy.

I'm expecting less dumb things and more smart things to add up to an improved forward line.

 

[Docker82]

I’ve not heard that they are allocating clubs (that is how SANFL allocation is happening). I’ve read the Eagles and Dockers wish to have a draft, and that is why nothing has been confirmed as yet.

I would expect Watson and Giro to be names we would be looking at given they could slot in and know our systems. Then the Peel fellas and the guys that have been training with us (although West Coast would also be interested in Schlensog, and Rogers I would expect). Also sounds like Peel and West Coast reserves probably won’t be part of teams included in the draft.

So 4 players total from each of the remaining 8 clubs.

The rumours on how it will be done seems to change daily. You posted yesterday’s version after I posted the day before’s in an earlier post.

Now they’re saying the first ten players come from NGA aligned clubs, then the second 20 are selected from a draft. Still maximum four per WAFL side.

Scrap what I saw earlier - this looks almost official WAFC Welcomes Player Opportunities Through AFL Top Up Contingency Plan

 

[gungho]

Disagree on this, specifically around the small forwards that we have. I don’t believe they are good enough as a unit to play in a flag winning team. That’s not a slight against them - let’s look at the relative amount of draft capital invested in this area of the ground to get the options we have:
Michael Walters - pick 53 in 2008. Obviously he’s been a star but we hit the jackpot with a pick in the 50s 14 years ago now. Looking to the future, he’s clearly on the wane but still our best small forward in 2022 IMO.
Sam Switkowski - pick 73 as a mature ager in 2017. Very solid player for the position he was taken in the draft. That kind of pick is a total Hail Mary shot though. Despite what champion data says, until he starts kicking 2 goals a game or so, you can’t call him elite.
Lachie Schultz - pick 58 mature ager in 2018. Another solid return so far for the size of the draft investment. Won’t be troubling the AA selectors anytime soon however.
Trav Colyer - future fourth round pick to Essendon in 2018 I think he cost. Good solid citizen again and providing a decent return for what we invested to get him (pretty much nothing).
Michael Frederick - pick 63 in 2019 and looking like a steal. Very promising start to this season but he’s not really a small forward. More of a lead up medium forward what’s hard to match up on.
Mitch Crowden - pick 59 in 2017. Not bad for his draft pick range. Not a world beater though and not really a small forward either. More of a half forward flanker.
Liam Henry - pick 9 matched bid in 2019. probably the only one where substantial draft capital was invested. Also despite having the tag “best small forward in the draft” at the time, he seems to be heading down a different path as a winger/half forward flanker at Fremantle.
Joel Western - pick 54 in 2020, yet to really make much of an impact but early days in fairness to him.

When you look at the top sides like Brisbane, Bulldogs, Dees, they all went and invested significantly in a proper crumbing small forward. Cameron (traded pick 12 to Adelaide), weightman (pick 13) and Pickett (pick 12). We rightly or wrongly have chosen to try fill this area in the cheap with junk picks while spending out top picks on more mids and half backs than those sides like Brayshaw, Cerra, Serong, Young, Chapman, Erasmus, Johnson. For example, would our list look better if we’d taken Kozzie Pickett at 7 in 2020 instead of Hayden Young? Of if we’d grabbed Ian hill instead of sam Sturt in 2018? Maybe, a lot to play out there still.
At the end of the day, if the strategy we have chosen wins a flag then we will look like genuises.
Personally I would love to see us spend our first round pick next year (likely to be around pick 12 or so) on a player like Rachele, or Pickett or even Weightman. Or even trade it for a 23-24 year old elite small forward like Brisbane did with Charlie Cameron in 2018, but only if the right player is available.

Some very good points in here. You can even go back to Ballas as a pick in the 50s. Great player but still not a high draft pick

 

[Taylor]

Hayden Ballantyne

Hayden Ballantyne

Age

38

Ht

173cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.1

5star

G

1.5

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.6

3star

K

8.2

4star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.8

4star

? Pick #21