2023 Brownlow Medal

[No Quarter]

I'd like to admit I flicked through the first 6 pages before realising it wasn't this years.

 

[Vdubs]

Daicos getting injured threw a spanner in the works granted but I would still have Bont & Petracca miles and miles above Neale

Fair enough, we all have opinions and see things differently.
Petracca, Cripps, Bont are all A+ superstars.
But if I coud add Neale to our list this year, we make the 8.
Every time I watch him play, I am amazed at the attention he gets, and how he deals with it.
Nick Daicos will clearly be the #1 mid if he stays fit

 

[Chinacats]

Cats 3rd lowest total team votes just only bettering the witches hats of the eagles and Roos….
Pretty poor year by the lads!

 

[Hinkley29]

Cats 3rd lowest total team votes just only bettering the witches hats of the eagles and Roos….
Pretty poor year by the lads!

We need to be better at getting votes. NO EXCUSES

 

[cats_09]

Lachie was paying $1.20 half way through the count. An extraordinary amount of money was placed on him.

I think there must have been a leak.

On the basis of performances after this several players would have been favoured more than him.

It all turned following Neale getting 3 votes in round 6 when he was ranked like the 20th best player that match, no coaches votes but then 3 votes in the Brownlow

 

[cats_09]

How do YOU define who is the best midfielder in any season?
Who was it this year?
As a pure mid, it's hard to go past Neale.
Always inside, but uses it beautifully.
None of us sees every game, unless we have no lives.

The coaches' MVP voting system is flawed.
The players' MVP voting system is severely flawed.
The clubs' B&F voting is nuanced.

Except that every league wide award except the Brownlow did rate other mids ahead of him - not even a spot for him in the AA team which generally seems to fill as many spots as possible with mids but they overlooked Neale for one of those spots this year

 

[Shell]

 

[gogeelongcats]

Who made the plunge?
Where did they get the tip?

Brownlow is compromised like the fixture, draft order, rights to players etc etc

Nothing is even in this competition.

What Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

47

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

said on 360 last night shows how much compromise there is.

 

[Commando]

I am pretty sure that the umpires do have access to the stats after the game when doing their votes. I think this changed a few years back and is why we now get the same pool of players getting the votes every week.

When the umps didn’t check the stats you used to get a much wider spread of votes and you were a real chance to win the award with 18-22 votes. These days if you aren’t in the very high 20’s or 30’s you really have no chance to win.

I spoke to an umpire I had a bit to do with a few years ago and he assured me no looking at stats
In fact not much goes into it at all just a brief chat after the game
Hence the big names frequently mentioned

 

[Hamingja]

My Dad worked with a prominent umpire in the 90s. They all hated Carey. It would come into it.

 

[Hinkley29]

I spoke to an umpire I had a bit to do with a few years ago and he assured me no looking at stats
In fact not much goes into it at all just a brief chat after the game
Hence the big names frequently mentioned

Yep, I did a bit of research and you are correct. Given everything they have going on it is amazing that they get the votes as correct as they do.

It also explains why players start getting Brownlow votes after they start getting media attention. The more they are mentioned in the media, the more the umpires would be conditioned to thinking they are the best players, the more likely they are to notice them and give them votes in future games. It is self-fulfilling. It also explains why mid season Brownlow favourited often poll so well late in seasons.

 

[gogeelongcats]

They do not look at the stats but they should.

 

[Mr Meow]

Danger's best is as good as any player in the comp, but we will see less and less of it each year. That was my only point, and to be expected. His game is way more physically taxing than the others, and have been told he does the bare minimum at training.
I was more concerned he dnw last year's NS.

May be, but Neale polled well early on, and was not necessarily expected to.
Either way, he was one of the favourites.
The angst about his win is possibly affecting those who bet on this for other favourites, for which I have zero care factor.

I think Dangerfield has tougher critics than the others. He also received coaches votes more frequently than Pendlebury and Martin this season. He's probably a victim of being compared to his 2016 superhuman self. But even in veteran mode, he remains a standout performer.

Although it could be considered a little harsh (on Atkins mostly) - Atkins, Blicavs, Holmes, Parfitt and Bruhn combined for 7 votes. Barely scraping past 50% of Dangerfield's total between them. Guthrie will help next season but others need to step up too.

 

[Mr Meow]

Not Pendlebury, as he's been declining for ages now (studiously ignored by the entire footy media), but I thought Martin was very stiff in a couple of games where he was clear BOG. Was roundabout the mark over all.

Having said that, the way they vote now makes it very different to past players. McLaughlin gushing over Daicos as no second year player had ever polled so many votes, you'd think there's never been good second year players before. I wonder if anyone bothered to tell the clown there have been second year WINNERS of the Brownlow.

Martin did finish strong but his first 15 or so weeks underwhelmed a bit. His two best games came in round 23/24 when Richmond had nothing to play for. Think he got a 1 and a 2 when it should've been a 2 and a 2 (Bolton vs NM had 4 goals, 20 something disposals and game high score involvements).

But then Dangerfield's best game was arguably vs Collingwood late (it was he and Cameron against 22 Pies) and he got no votes for that.

Pendlebury's year was certainly decent but the frequency of match turning performances at their age is comfortably Dangerfield > Martin > Pendlebury.

If we could've managed the squad better with injuries (as Richmond did with Martin a few times) I think we could've squeezed a couple more of those big performances out of Danger too.

 

[Commando]

Yep, I did a bit of research and you are correct. Given everything they have going on it is amazing that they get the votes as correct as they do.

It also explains why players start getting Brownlow votes after they start getting media attention. The more they are mentioned in the media, the more the umpires would be conditioned to thinking they are the best players, the more likely they are to notice them and give them votes in future games. It is self-fulfilling. It also explains why mid season Brownlow favourited often poll so well late in seasons.

Also supports my gentleman theory, not many mongrels win a Brownlow
This century they’re mainly stand up individuals

 

[feelinfeline]

Yep, I did a bit of research and you are correct. Given everything they have going on it is amazing that they get the votes as correct as they do.

It also explains why players start getting Brownlow votes after they start getting media attention. The more they are mentioned in the media, the more the umpires would be conditioned to thinking they are the best players, the more likely they are to notice them and give them votes in future games. It is self-fulfilling. It also explains why mid season Brownlow favourited often poll so well late in seasons.

Sure, but that doesn’t explain Woewodin, Cooney and Priddis. Just weird results.

 

[Hinkley29]

Sure, but that doesn’t explain Woewodin, Cooney and Priddis. Just weird results.

Woewodin happened before the super saturation of media coverage, and there were more surprise winners back then.

I can’t explain Priddis. The amazing thing is he came close to winning 2. Maybe it was the hair.

Cooney was an unfulfilled talent. Maybe the umpires felt sorry for him.

 

[Hinkley29]

Also supports my gentleman theory, not many mongrels win a Brownlow
This century they’re mainly stand up individuals

Cousins and Dane Swan are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Although at the time cousins was keeping his mongrelness quite well hidden (unless you were familiar with the Perth 3am nightclub scene)

 

[feelinfeline]

Woewodin happened before the super saturation of media coverage, and there were more surprise winners back then.

I can’t explain Priddis. The amazing thing is he came close to winning 2. Maybe it was the hair.

Cooney was an unfulfilled talent. Maybe the umpires felt sorry for him.

Maybe it was the hair with Woewodin too. I'm sure the blond tips didn't do any harm.

 

[Vdubs]

Except that every league wide award except the Brownlow did rate other mids ahead of him - not even a spot for him in the AA team which generally seems to fill as many spots as possible with mids but they overlooked Neale for one of those spots this year

This is the Brownlow- we know it's another award and different because the umps do not currently have the benefit of meaningful stats, but they have a gut feel, and Neale gets it this year.
Neale was in the AA squad.
The mids in the AA team are great, all polled well in the Brownlow, but Neale polled more. The media and supporters who get off on all these awards are very Melbourne centric anyway. Neale, Serong, Anderson, (Butters, Rozee to a lesser extent)are just not as highlighted during the season.
Not a big deal in my book

 

[Lana]

Fact:

Neale spends more time next to umpires then any other midfielder.

He has the 3rd highest centre bounce attendee rate in the competition. 2nd highest game time amongst inside mids

Theory:

Umpires have poor eyesight

Supporting Evidence 1

Some ruckmen also spend more a lot of gametime around around umpires, but as they are tall the umpires can't tell them apart.

Supporting Evidence 2

At 178cm Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

30

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

is closer to the eye line of the typical umpire, thus draws their attention and gains undeserved votes.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

24

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

...zero votes .

 

[rocker_oz33]

My Dad worked with a prominent umpire in the 90s. They all hated Carey. It would come into it.

Was he trying too their wife's too.



Or.

Must be knob on field?

 

[rocker_oz33]

Fair enough, we all have opinions and see things differently.
Petracca, Cripps, Bont are all A+ superstars.
But if I coud add Neale to our list this year, we make the 8.
Every time I watch him play, I am amazed at the attention he gets, and how he deals with it.
Nick Daicos will clearly be the #1 mid if he stays fit

Unsure if Nick tough enough for full time mid..
Seen him skirt a few contests at AO in gather round ..every skilled and smart player ..
Made his brother better to.

 

[Commando]

Cousins and Dane Swan are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Although at the time cousins was keeping his mongrelness quite well hidden (unless you were familiar with the Perth 3am nightclub scene)

Cousins had his troubles and Swan was more of a lad, but both were fair ball players