List Mgmt. 2023 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Key Dates:

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Draft Period, November 20–22

• Round 1 of the National Draft: Monday, November 20, time and venue TBA
• Trade Period (3), picks only: Tuesday, November 21, 5.45pm–6.30pm
• Round 2–end of the National Draft: Tuesday, November 21, 7pm until completion
• Rookie Promotions: Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• Delisted Free Agency Period (3): Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• List Lodgement 3*: Wednesday, November 22, 10am (optional; required for those participating in the PSD)
• Pre-Season Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3pm
• Rookie Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3.20pm
• Final List Lodgement*: Thursday, November 23, 4pm

* List lodgement dates are yet to be made public, so are approximate based on past history and the requirements of the AFL Rules. When lists are lodged, the number of players on the list must not exceed maximum list sizes. At the same time, clubs must provide the AFL with estimates of total player payments in the current and following year, which must prove the club is not and will not exceed the salary cap. (AFL Rules 5.3, 6.1, 6.8, 7.2, 7.9)

 

[Del198236]

Who says our salary cap is tight?
Its a debate that no-one can win because no-one has any idea.
Eg.. I strongly disagree with every post above that says we're going to lose players due to a lack of salary cap space.. We may well lose players looking for opportunity over the next few years.
Strongly disagree that our cap is tight..

• I reckon losing COLA the day after we signed Buddy was huge! It basically meant we signed away 20% (approx 10% COLA & 10% Buddy) of our salary cap when we were budgeting for only 10%.
• This forced us to heavily back end contracts of Heeney, Mills & others. Melican being a RFA this year is a good example of how much we back ended contracts.

• Buddys contract is well n truly over. Last year was reportedly $750k and this year will be less.
• Heeney and Mills back ended contracts are over
• A high proportion of our list has been players on their 1st or 2nd contracts (the cheapest contracts)
• We lost Dawson ($600k) and didn't replace him
• We havnt traded in anyone on decent money for years. Theres been no paying 'overs' to attract players
• We just signed Mills, Heeney & Paps on long contracts. My understanding is players take a pay cut for the security of a long contract.. We hear about Cripps, Hawkins etc doing this,, but theres no way the Swans would say anything like that, so, I reckon Mills, Heeney and Paps are on less that people might think
• JPK is gone, Parker, Lloyd are on their last contracts, and long ones (once again, likely spreading money out). Rampe, Reid, Buddy, Amartey, McLean all on 1 year (last chance / cheap) contracts. These guys are all Key Position players,, positions that often are very expensive to fill

My feeling is the salary cap kaos, caused by losing COLA, compounded by the size and length of Buddys contract, compounded by paying a list good enough to make 8 of the last 10 finals, compounded by COVID.... is over.
My feeling is we are back on top of things

ps.. congrats to the Swans for making finals 8 out the last 10 years throughout this time
pps.. just guessing

 

[Superstar swan]

Who says our salary cap is tight?
Its a debate that no-one can win because no-one has any idea.
Eg.. I strongly disagree with every post above that says we're going to lose players due to a lack of salary cap space.. We may well lose players looking for opportunity over the next few years.
Strongly disagree that our cap is tight..

• I reckon losing COLA the day after we signed Buddy was huge! It basically meant we signed away 20% (approx 10% COLA & 10% Buddy) of our salary cap when we were budgeting for only 10%.
• This forced us to heavily back end contracts of Heeney, Mills & others. Melican being a RFA this year is a good example of how much we back ended contracts.

• Buddys contract is well n truly over. Last year was reportedly $750k and this year will be less.
• Heeney and Mills back ended contracts are over
• A high proportion of our list has been players on their 1st or 2nd contracts (the cheapest contracts)
• We lost Dawson ($600k) and didn't replace him
• We havnt traded in anyone on decent money for years. Theres been no paying 'overs' to attract players
• We just signed Mills, Heeney & Paps on long contracts. My understanding is players take a pay cut for the security of a long contract.. We hear about Cripps, Hawkins etc doing this,, but theres no way the Swans would say anything like that, so, I reckon Mills, Heeney and Paps are on less that people might think
• JPK is gone, Parker, Lloyd are on their last contracts, and long ones (once again, likely spreading money out). Rampe, Reid, Buddy, Amartey, McLean all on 1 year (last chance / cheap) contracts. These guys are all Key Position players,, positions that often are very expensive to fill

My feeling is the salary cap kaos, caused by losing COLA, compounded by the size and length of Buddys contract, compounded by paying a list good enough to make 8 of the last 10 finals, compounded by COVID.... is over.
My feeling is we are back on top of things

ps.. congrats to the Swans for making finals 8 out the last 10 years throughout this time
pps.. just guessing

I'm not sure guys like heeney, Mills and papley need security. They're going to hugely sought after regardless if they missed a bit of footy through injury.

Managers salaries are directly in correlation with a players. The more a player gets paid the more the manager gets paid. I'm not sure many player agents are advising players to leave money on the table. The 3 above mentioned players are smack bang in their prime. It would be unwise to sign a long term deal that ensures their last big deal and prime earning years at a discounted rate.

Papley being a Vic boy, would attract interest from big Vic clubs, which would be able to source bigger 3rd party agreements than a nsw club every could, thus increasing his earning power.

Not to mention the cost of living in sydney being the highest in the country, not only would they get paid more (if they took the discount) elsewhere but the dollar would go further .

Who knows, maybe your right and they have taken a little less and hopefully the clubs elite culture cluld have helped swing that , by personal opinion is they would be getting very close to market value.

 

[sataris]

Who says our salary cap is tight?
Its a debate that no-one can win because no-one has any idea.
Eg.. I strongly disagree with every post above that says we're going to lose players due to a lack of salary cap space.. We may well lose players looking for opportunity over the next few years.
Strongly disagree that our cap is tight..

• I reckon losing COLA the day after we signed Buddy was huge! It basically meant we signed away 20% (approx 10% COLA & 10% Buddy) of our salary cap when we were budgeting for only 10%.
• This forced us to heavily back end contracts of Heeney, Mills & others. Melican being a RFA this year is a good example of how much we back ended contracts.

• Buddys contract is well n truly over. Last year was reportedly $750k and this year will be less.
• Heeney and Mills back ended contracts are over
• A high proportion of our list has been players on their 1st or 2nd contracts (the cheapest contracts)
• We lost Dawson ($600k) and didn't replace him
• We havnt traded in anyone on decent money for years. Theres been no paying 'overs' to attract players
• We just signed Mills, Heeney & Paps on long contracts. My understanding is players take a pay cut for the security of a long contract.. We hear about Cripps, Hawkins etc doing this,, but theres no way the Swans would say anything like that, so, I reckon Mills, Heeney and Paps are on less that people might think
• JPK is gone, Parker, Lloyd are on their last contracts, and long ones (once again, likely spreading money out). Rampe, Reid, Buddy, Amartey, McLean all on 1 year (last chance / cheap) contracts. These guys are all Key Position players,, positions that often are very expensive to fill

My feeling is the salary cap kaos, caused by losing COLA, compounded by the size and length of Buddys contract, compounded by paying a list good enough to make 8 of the last 10 finals, compounded by COVID.... is over.
My feeling is we are back on top of things

ps.. congrats to the Swans for making finals 8 out the last 10 years throughout this time
pps.. just guessing

Depends on what you mean by 'tight'

The salary cap floor ensures that there's only ever $x amount of dollars maximum that can be left unused.

 

[caesar88]

Will we though? By 2025 Buddy, Reid, Rampe, Fox, Melican and Hickey will be gone (and maybe Cunningham). Parker and Lloyd will be at the end of their current deals and will therefore take cheaper 1 year deals until retirement. At worst we lose Florent or Hayward which could be more than manageable if guys like HHK and Campbell have replaced them

I think it's fantasy to think we won't lose any players in the coming years. A decade or so ago we kept a top-line core of 9 or 10 players together, and the cost was a number of the players around and below them. And that was with COLA and less player movement than there is today. I guess I have made peace with the fact that to keep our top-line core - Heeney, Mills, Papley, T. McCartin, Blakey, Rowbottom, McInerney, Warner, Gulden (and McDonald) - we may have to pay the same price this time around with those around and below them. So the only signatures I'm really sweating on are the ones from that top group. Everyone else... que sera, sera.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I think it's fantasy to think we won't lose any players in the coming years. A decade or so ago we kept a top-line core of 9 or 10 players together, and the cost was a number of the players around and below them. And that was with COLA and less player movement than there is today. I guess I have made peace with the fact that to keep our top-line core - Heeney, Mills, Papley, T. McCartin, Blakey, Rowbottom, McInerney, Warner, Gulden (and McDonald) - we may have to pay the same price this time around with those around and below them. So the only signatures I'm really sweating on are the ones from that top group. Everyone else... que sera, sera.

Interesting that you classified McI in that “top-line core”.

I’m very interested to see how it unfolds this year, as McI seems to have form fluctuations only matched by Heeney (and we know that’s injury related).

If (and its only an if) 2021 was his zenith, I’d say he does become trade material.

 

[caesar88]

Interesting that you classified McI in that “top-line core”.

I’m very interested to see how it unfolds this year, as McI seems to have form fluctuations only matched by Heeney (and we know that’s injury related).

If (and its only an if) 2021 was his zenith, I’d say he does become trade material.

Why would 2021 be his zenith DQ? He is 22 years old

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Why would 2021 be his zenith DQ? He is 22 years old

Simply because I think it’s generally viewed that his 2021 was superior to his 2022.

But please, don’t take this as a statement of belief that McI isn’t going to be an A-grader. There could be all sorts of reasons 2022 was a bit of a “flat spot”.

 

[Ticky009]

Interesting that you classified McI in that “top-line core”.

I’m very interested to see how it unfolds this year, as McI seems to have form fluctuations only matched by Heeney (and we know that’s injury related).

If (and its only an if) 2021 was his zenith, I’d say he does become trade material.

Still think Covid knocked around McI more than we've been told.

 

[scaryness]

Simply because I think it’s generally viewed that his 2021 was superior to his 2022.

But please, don’t take this as a statement of belief that McI isn’t going to be an A-grader. There could be all sorts of reasons 2022 was a bit of a “flat spot”.

There's no reason to automatically assume he will be an A-grader either. Unless you go the Fox Footy route where literally everyone is a "potential A-grader".

 

[caesar88]

There's no reason to automatically assume he will be an A-grader either. Unless you go the Fox Footy route where literally everyone is a "potential A-grader".

The only players who I think are potential A-graders are the ones who have played like A-graders.

 

[scaryness]

The only players who I think are potential A-graders are the ones who have played like A-graders.

A-graders require consistency or they're not A-graders. That's been the Heeney question for years.
McInerney has had a few A-grade games, but has had far more games where he just has good moments here and there and is otherwise not that effective or noticeable.

I don't dislike him mind you, I just think we need to temper expectations on a few of the young players we have. For a player like JMac to be an A-grader I would need to see a sharp increase in output and he would need to do it nearly every game rather than once a month.

 

[caesar88]

A-graders require consistency or they're not A-graders. That's been the Heeney question for years.
McInerney has had a few A-grade games, but has had far more games where he just has good moments hear and there and is otherwise not that effective or noticeable.

I don't dislike him mind you, I just think we need to temper expectations on a few of the young players we have. For a player like JMac to be an A-grader I would need to see a sharp increase in output and he would need to do it nearly every game rather than once a month.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I didn't say McInerney was an A-grader, just that he's a potential A-grader and, just my prediction, will be one.

In any case, I don't think there's anything wrong with being optimistic about our prospects. If they're not the players we hope they'll be, then we're in for a rough future anyway, so might as well enjoy the present while it's filled with hope.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

There's no reason to automatically assume he will be an A-grader either. Unless you go the Fox Footy route where literally everyone is a "potential A-grader".

There was always the teacher who wanted to be liked & hence gave out lots of A’s.

Then there was the grumpy sod to whom giving an A was a sign of weakness, to be avoided at all costs.

I’m probably a grumpy sod - so Mills gets an A-. All the rest gets lots of red ink and no better than a B.

 

[anotherletdown]

There was always the teacher who wanted to be liked & hence gave out lots of A’s.

Then there was the grumpy sod to whom giving an A was a sign of weakness, to be avoided at all costs.

I’m probably a grumpy sod - so Mills gets an A-. All the rest gets lots of red ink and no better than a B.

And you'd be closer to the mark than the footy media

 

[Superstar swan]

Imo we have 4 certified A graders.
Mills
Heeney
Papley
Warner.

By the end of this year I expect gulden to have put his name on that list

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

Imo we have 4 certified A graders.
Mills
Heeney
Papley
Warner.

By the end of this year I expect gulden to have put his name on that list

Parker

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Pardon the intrusion but can just about bet your house on TDK heading to the Cattery this year.

As far as I know we're looking at bringing in Ben McKay with that cash

Things may change but him announcing he's putting off contract talks was the first public indication that he's got one foot out the door.

Love to know how on earth they get this done without a first rounder and I'm pretty sure they can't trade their future 1.

Their endless cap continues to amaze me.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Imo we have 4 certified A graders.
Mills
Heeney
Papley
Warner.

By the end of this year I expect gulden to have put his name on that list

I'm not putting Heeney in there yet, whether he's getting injured or going missing in big matches he's not at the A level let for me. The injuries are unlucky sure but Parker is ahead at least.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

A-graders require consistency or they're not A-graders. That's been the Heeney question for years.
McInerney has had a few A-grade games, but has had far more games where he just has good moments here and there and is otherwise not that effective or noticeable.

I don't dislike him mind you, I just think we need to temper expectations on a few of the young players we have. For a player like JMac to be an A-grader I would need to see a sharp increase in output and he would need to do it nearly every game rather than once a month.

Agree would need to be Issac Smith type numbers, for a wingman his numbers have been average. Yeah needs consistency actually a very important year for him, he has all the tools to be a B+ player just the consistency, the 1 game in 4 doesn't cut it.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Pardon the intrusion but can just about bet your house on TDK heading to the Cattery this year.

As far as I know we're looking at bringing in Ben McKay with that cash

Things may change but him announcing he's putting off contract talks was the first public indication that he's got one foot out the door.

I’ll never stop thinking “Trent Dennis Kane” every time I see the TDK acronym.

 

[caesar88]

Parker

I thought he was elite last year. His first truly elite season to me since his 2016 season. Particularly his second half of the season when he was playing more of a selfless role to make life easier for others.

 

[caesar88]

I'm not putting Heeney in there yet, whether he's getting injured or going missing in big matches he's not at the A level let for me. The injuries are unlucky sure but Parker is ahead at least.

You realise he's a medium forward and the best medium forward in the comp? How is being the best player in your position not being an A-grader? Does that mean no other medium forwards can be A-graders?

 

[Superstar swan]

Parker

Is Parker an A Grader at the club or an A grader of the afl. Warner and Mills both flew past him last year. For me at his age, he is a very good player capable of elite performances. But I don't have Him in the top echelon of players anymore

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You realise he's a medium forward and the best medium forward in the comp? How is being the best player in your position not being an A-grader? Does that mean no other medium forwards can be A-graders?

This best medium forward barely shows up half the time and Toby Greene is better anyway

 

[Dubsforsam1]

If we are getting anyone I want Ben McKay