List Mgmt. 2025 National Draft Thread - Beaten at your own game, Bidney?

[robbieando]

 

[tombomb]

The AFL taking so long to address this issue is the real problem. Not the system that is in place now.

A graduate with a spreadsheet and a notepad could have fixed the bidding system in twenty minutes, 15 years ago.

Instead the boys club have just sat on the issue and let it fester while everyone gets more and more pissed off, and in some cases actively made it worse with the introduction of the NGAs.

And now even when the system is basically fair, everyone is still pissed off.

The irony is the clubs ran Laura Kane out of town, and she was the only one who ever did anything to make it fair.

 

[SwansLifer]

The AFL taking so long to address this issue is the real problem. Not the system that is in place now.

A graduate with a spreadsheet and a notepad could have fixed the bidding system in twenty minutes, 15 years ago.

Instead the boys club have just sat on the issue and let it fester while everyone gets more and more pissed off, and in some cases actively made it worse with the introduction of the NGAs.

And now even when the system is basically fair, everyone is still pissed off.

The irony is the clubs ran Laura Kane out of town, and she was the only one who ever did anything to make it fair.

Is anyone surprised? Sub in actual life and its the same.

 

[Kbroome]

That’s nowhere near enough for FOUR first rounders plus Petracca, 3 of those went in that deal so it looks like they gave up more than they did. It’s not even close to market value a bunch in the 20-30 range does not equal a top 5 pick. Now do I blame them no I don’t they are playing by the rules. However now it’s time once and for all to make a system where all these bidding systems (father son, nga, and academy) are under the same umbrella. If said player is in the top 5, be prepared to lose someone very good or trade up using futures. What won’t happen is multiple early first rounders in bidding unless you acquire 4 first rounders to do so. This is a good thing it’s going to stop the first rounders being 25 plus and bottom 4 clubs may get access it was a bit farcical this year

Im probably wrong but here is all the trades that GCS did (I eliminated all of the on trades picks from both sides)

 

[dosser]

Was top 10 in the 20m sprint.

His quick.

Baffling. I can only assume that other clubs don't think he's going to make it.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I have not once seen you complain about the Roos being gifted #11 or whatever it was though. No club would remotely give up pick #11 for that. It works both ways. Now, I'm just quoting you here and replacing the numbers.
"If we had pick #11 what we we want for it? At least a 1st and another late 1st or an early 2nd too. It’s not even close to what they paid."

The, it's only about points argument is moot here, you have made that a moot point with your previous claims.

The Roos getting pick 11 sort of was a side issue for the same thing- Carl should have needed to trade the two firsts for their top 3 ranked kid. If someone said pick 3 for what was it 9&11 (these went out but let’s just use the original selections). That’s about right for a top selection and around market value. What’s not market value is a bunch of selections from 20 plus onwards that somehow add up to the points- the clubs aren’t the blame the AFL is. Thankfully it’s being fixed for good. Won’t be any double dipping

 

[robbieando]

Im probably wrong but here is all the trades that GCS did (I eliminated all of the on trades picks from both sides)

Sadly because of the amount of trades that they made I think you are missing the two first round picks they traded in from Port and Collingwood for this year as part of the Jack Lukosious trade. Also they traded so many picks in and out in the later rounds. That we won’t be able to keep track of.

They gave up 4 first round picks (Collingwood 1st, Port 1st and their 1st this year and their future first next year) to be in a position to match the four bids this season and trade for Trac.

When you include the players they gave up, the mountain of second and later round picks they gave up last year, this year, next year and 2027. Then they paid more than fair value. Only the ill-informed think otherwise.

 

[KTT]

Sadly because of the amount of trades that they made I think you are missing the two first round picks they traded in from Port and Collingwood for this year as part of the Jack Lukosious trade. Also they traded so many picks in and out in the later rounds. That we won’t be able to keep track of.

They gave up 4 first round picks (Collingwood 1st, Port 1st and their 1st this year and their future first next year) to be in a position to match the four bids this season and trade for Trac.

When you include the players they gave up, the mountain of second and later round picks they gave up last year, this year, next year and 2027. Then they paid more than fair value. Only the ill-informed think otherwise.

Thankyou.
I just tried writing something similar but failed and therefore deleted it.
I got to around 2.5 full draft hands and a bunch of players (including at least 4 that were 1st rd picks)

 

[SwansLifer]

The Roos getting pick 11 sort of was a side issue for the same thing- Carl should have needed to trade the two firsts for their top 3 ranked kid. If someone said pick 3 for what was it 9&11 (these went out but let’s just use the original selections). That’s about right for a top selection and around market value. What’s not market value is a bunch of selections from 20 plus onwards that somehow add up to the points- the clubs aren’t the blame the AFL is. Thankfully it’s being fixed for good. Won’t be any double dipping

No. Play your very own game. Would you trade #11 for that crap? Yes or No. It works both ways. If you want to play the points game for one scenario, you have to play it for the other.

 

[Kbroome]

Sadly because of the amount of trades that they made I think you are missing the two first round picks they traded in from Port and Collingwood for this year as part of the Jack Lukosious trade. Also they traded so many picks in and out in the later rounds. That we won’t be able to keep track of.

They gave up 4 first round picks (Collingwood 1st, Port 1st and their 1st this year and their future first next year) to be in a position to match the four bids this season and trade for Trac.

When you include the players they gave up, the mountain of second and later round picks they gave up last year, this year, next year and 2027. Then they paid more than fair value. Only the ill-informed think otherwise.

Nope I got the Port and Collingwood ones, its just that they on-traded the Port one in the Trac deal and on traded the Collingwood pick in the Dogs deal to get 14. So when they are on both sides of the equation I cancelled them out and left the bye product of the two trades

 

[robbieando]

Thankyou.
I just tried writing something similar but failed and therefore deleted it.
I got to around 2.5 full draft hands and a bunch of players (including at least 4 that were 1st rd picks)

Just checked every trade. Traded out 5 First Round picks to get to their draft hand and and get Rioli and Trac, they still had 2 first round picks going into the draft. They swapped around 4 second round picks that they got from a mixture of player trades and trading their own picks.

They don’t hold any of their own picks next year and have traded out 3 future picks they held from other clubs.

7 first round picks is a fair price

 

[robbieando]

Nope I got the Port and Collingwood ones, its just that they on-traded the Port one in the Trac deal and on traded the Collingwood pick in the Dogs deal to get 14. So when they are on both sides of the equation I cancelled them out and left the bye product of the two trades

They got the Bulldogs First Round pick in 2024, traded their own in 2024, 2025 and 2026, St Kilda’s 1st this year, Port’s first this year and Collingwood’s first this season. 7 in Total.

They also got North’s 2nd compensation pick in 2024 which they traded to Richmond and was at the end of the 1st Round.

 

[Kbroome]

They got the Bulldogs First Round pick in 2024, traded their own in 2024, 2025 and 2026, St Kilda’s 1st this year, Port’s first this year and Collingwood’s first this season. 7 in Total.

They also got North’s 2nd compensation pick in 2024 which they traded to Richmond and was at the end of the 1st Round.

They traded the 2024 first from the Dogs in the Houston deal and thats what got them the Port and Collingwood picks which then subsequently got them part of Trac and also pick 14.

Thats why it comes up them trading pick 4 & Flanders into effectively Trac and #14

Because your method uses double counting of first rounders. However I believe you are right in using the first set of trades they have collected 6 FRPs for players/high FRPs. In which they subsequently on traded them for seconds and players

 

[LukeParkerno1]

No. Play your very own game. Would you trade #11 for that crap? Yes or No. It works both ways. If you want to play the points game for one scenario, you have to play it for the other.

The issue is the splitting creating more points. The 11 wouldn’t have been traded if the 2 pick rule was in place. Thankfully it will be in 2026. This will mean less of these lopsided deals and yes the pick 11 one was unders Carl played the system it’s a bad system that needs immediate fixing and thankfully it will.

 

[Adnico26Parker]

Giants have released their draft video, and at the 2:30 mark, Caruso is discussing Kyle and bidding on him.

Says that they would happily take him if we passed, because he thinks he's going to be a star, and a jet.

They also have a laugh about the bid not being a revenge bid for Rowston or trying to wipe us out, although I don't think he convinced them it wasn't!

Inside the GIANTS: Draft Days

Take a look behind the scenes at the 2025 Telstra AFL Draft.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Giants have released their draft video, and at the 2:30 mark, Caruso is discussing Kyle and bidding on him.

Says that they would happily take him if we passed, because he thinks he's going to be a star, and a jet.

They also have a laugh about the bid not being a revenge bid for Rowston or trying to wipe us out, although I don't think he convinced them it wasn't!

Inside the GIANTS: Draft Days

Take a look behind the scenes at the 2025 Telstra AFL Draft.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

Seems like they really viewed Kyle early and honestly looking at our one we'd have matched regardless where the bid came so 14 was about right

 

[Callipygian]

Giants have released their draft video, and at the 2:30 mark, Caruso is discussing Kyle and bidding on him.

Says that they would happily take him if we passed, because he thinks he's going to be a star, and a jet.

They also have a laugh about the bid not being a revenge bid for Rowston or trying to wipe us out, although I don't think he convinced them it wasn't!

Inside the GIANTS: Draft Days

Take a look behind the scenes at the 2025 Telstra AFL Draft.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

He didn't convince me either, after saying Oskar Taylor was the best player and the one they wanted. He also glanced at the camera, which gave the impression he was speaking more for the benefit of the cameras. Plus they were very confident we would match the bid. However it does also show that they didn't trade up (at the cost of their future 2nd) just to spite us - it was to get their man Taylor who Hawthorn may otherwise have taken.

Anyway, in the end, IMO it didn't hurt us one whit. I'd rather have Phillipou and Cootee than Carmichael.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

He didn't convince me either, after saying Oskar Taylor was the best player and the one they wanted. He also glanced at the camera, which gave the impression he was speaking more for the benefit of the cameras.

Anyway, in the end, IMO it didn't hurt us one whit. I'd rather have Phillipou and Cootee than Carmichael.

Even if we didn't get Cootee I'd rather have Pou over Carmichael straight out and it's not close on talent. That's not to say I think Carmichael won't have a successful AFL career, but for me if that's the choice I know which one to take, Cootee is just the cherry on top and he's ready to play next year as a mature ager.

 

[RUNVS]

Even if we didn't get Cootee I'd rather have Pou over Carmichael straight out and it's not close on talent. That's not to say I think Carmichael won't have a successful AFL career, but for me if that's the choice I know which one to take, Cootee is just the cherry on top and he's ready to play next year as a mature ager.

Carmichael might be a safer bet, but that is the problem, he is safe. He isn't a game breaker, and we need game breakers right now rather than safe players who don't really go for attacking options.

LLoyd has been a great player for us, but he really was too conservative ball in hand most of the time, him often breaking down attacking plays simply because he took too long to make a decision or the decision he did make was too safe.

 

[Kbroome]

Carmichael might be a safer bet, but that is the problem, he is safe. He isn't a game breaker, and we need game breakers right now rather than safe players who don't really go for attacking options.

LLoyd has been a great player for us, but he really was too conservative ball in hand most of the time, him often breaking down attacking plays simply because he took too long to make a decision or the decision he did make was too safe.

Yep you could probably get a mid ranked 60th (outside type of mid) that is a hell of a kick to play the role of Carmichael and not see much drop off.

People have shown the statistics on goal scoring mids only 3-4 per year kick a goal a game and have 20 touches.

I reckon Phillipou could be that type of game breaking player that the likes of Heeney, Warner, Bont, Rankine, JHF are

 

[liz]

Carmichael might be a safer bet, but that is the problem, he is safe. He isn't a game breaker, and we need game breakers right now rather than safe players who don't really go for attacking options.

LLoyd has been a great player for us, but he really was too conservative ball in hand most of the time, him often breaking down attacking plays simply because he took too long to make a decision or the decision he did make was too safe.

Sorry, but much of this is bollocks. Sure, Lloyd is no Warner or Heeney but he’s been a mainstay of a pretty successful (H&A) team for over a decade. Two BSkiltons and numerous podium finishes are testament to that. He knew his strengths, played to them perfectly, and was a key player in the structure.

It was really only in the first half of 2025 that he became noticeably hesitant with ball in hand, and thus something of a liability. Cox was patient - probably for too long - before finally sending him back to the VFL. When he returned, he wasn’t quite back to his best but showed a heap more urgency than earlier.

You need a couple of Lloyds (or Jordons or Cunninghams or Rowbottoms) for every Warner or Heeney. Otherwise you become a soggy, leaky sieve that turns the ball over too often and too quickly and becomes very easy to score against.

Declaring Phillipou more valuable than Carmichael is a call made many years too early. Let’s wait and see.

 

[RUNVS]

Sorry, but much of this is bollocks. Sure, Lloyd is no Warner or Heeney but he’s been a mainstay of a pretty successful (H&A) team for over a decade. Two BSkiltons and numerous podium finishes are testament to that. He knew his strengths, played to them perfectly, and was a key player in the structure.

It was really only in the first half of 2025 that he became noticeably hesitant with ball in hand, and this something of a liability. Cox was patient - probably for too long - before finally sending him back to the VFL. When he returned, he wasn’t quite back to his best but showed a heap more urgency than earlier.

You need a couple of Lloyds (or Jordons or Cunninghams or Rowbottoms) for every Warner or Heeney. Otherwise you become a soggy, leaky sieve that turns the ball over too often and too quickly and becomes very easy to score against.

Declaring Phillipou more valuable than Carmichael is a call make many years too early. Let’s wait and see.

Lloyd has always been hesitant with the ball. So many times he takes a mark and then only kicks the ball when his time is up, and usually to a player off to the side who isn't being marked.

Lloyd plays it safe, he always has, and that can be good, but you don't want too many players in the team who do that.

Put it this way, I would rather a backline full of Blakey's than a backline full of Lloyd's, as the backline of Lloyd's plays not to lose, but the backline of Blakey's plays to win, and sure he may stuff up sometimes as a result, but his attacking mindset is an asset to the team.

 

[Callipygian]

Lloyd has always been hesitant with the ball. So many times he takes a mark and then only kicks the ball when his time is up, and usually to a player off to the side who isn't being marked.

Lloyd plays it safe, he always has, and that can be good, but you don't want too many players in the team who do that.

Put it this way, I would rather a backline full of Blakey's than a backline full of Lloyd's, as the backline of Lloyd's plays not to lose, but the backline of Blakey's plays to win, and sure he may stuff up sometimes as a result, but his attacking mindset is an asset to the team.

Yes, and the point is that you don't want either a team of all Blakeys or all Lloyds. You need a mix of players. We'll need a solid reliable type too.

 

[McGowan3]

Carmichael might be a safer bet, but that is the problem, he is safe. He isn't a game breaker, and we need game breakers right now rather than safe players who don't really go for attacking options.

LLoyd has been a great player for us, but he really was too conservative ball in hand most of the time, him often breaking down attacking plays simply because he took too long to make a decision or the decision he did make was too safe.

Lock for the Swans Hall of Fame. An excellent finals player as well. May not even be his last year.

 

[RUNVS]

Lock for the Swans Hall of Fame. An excellent finals player as well. May not even be his last year.

A bit off topic but I remember very early in his career being very impressed with Lloyd's clean hands when he played in the midfield. He was very good at getting a handball out in congestion, and to be honest I think Lloyd would have been better for the Swans in a midfield role continuing to do that.

 

[McGowan3]

A bit off topic but I remember very early in his career being very impressed with Lloyd's clean hands when he played in the midfield. He was very good at getting a handball out in congestion, and to be honest I think Lloyd would have been better for the Swans in a midfield role continuing to do that.

He was very good as a mid early. Goal kicker as well.