Current Trial 9yo Charlise Mutten - Blue Mountains * Justin Stein charged with murder

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If Charlise had just gone missing, or found dead with no-one charged, would the public have more of a chance of finding out (via the Coroner) the extent (if any) of NSW/QLD FACS involvement in the care of Charlise after her mother's 2016 car accident that resulted in her 3 year jail sentence.

Is there are any possibility of the NSW and/or QLD Coroner still getting involved in this case for reviewing the care of Charlise issues that led to her being back in NSW with her mother and the accused?
 
With Charlise's maternal grandparents having now been confirmed (in Court today) as being legal guardians (permanently I assume) of Charlise, it's not hard to understand why NSW FACS was probably not required to be involved in decisions relating to Charlise's care (Edit) after Guardianship of Charlise occurred.

Whether the law/policy needs changing so that they should have been, is open for debate.

www.abc.net.au

Charlise Mutten asked grandfather if alleged killer would make 'good father', court told

The grandfather of Charlise Mutten has told court of his granddaughter's unconditional love for her mother and her question about whether her accused killer would make a good father.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Charlise Mutten's grandfather describes granddaughter's 'unconditional love', questions of alleged killer​

Posted 14m ago
...
The trial heard Charlise was under the care of her grandparents in Tweed Heads after the girl's mother, Kallista Mutten agreed "she wasn't providing adequate care" for her daughter.
...
Jurors were told the grandparents then became legal guardians of Charlise when her mother was sentenced to prison for dangerous driving occasioning death
...
During cross examination from Mr Stein's lawyer, Carolyn Davenport SC questioned Mr Mutten's knowledge of his daughter's on-going drug use and Mr Stein's criminal history when plans were made to send Charlise to them.

"You must have been very concerned about sending that young child to an environment that at best was maybe questionable?" Ms Davenport SC asked.

"No, because I was under the impression that both had cleaned their act up," Mr Mutten replied.

Ms Davenport SC suggested to Mr Mutten that his daughter was not "particularly honest" about her drug use, to which he agreed.
...'

www.smh.com.au

Charlise Mutten asked if her alleged killer would make a good dad, jury told

The nine-year-old girl was excited to visit her mother, Kallista Mutten, and her mother’s fiance, Justin Stein, before her alleged murder, her grandfather has said.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

Charlise Mutten asked if her alleged killer would make a good dad, jury told​

May 14, 2024 — 12.38pm
...
Asked by Crown prosecutor Nicholas Marney about Charlise’s relationship with her mother, the grandfather said it was “very loving” and “unconditional”, and their strong bond “was always there”.

“Charlise would cry at times, saying that she missed her mother,” he said. “She looked forward to communicating with her.”

He said Charlise would video-call her mother, but there were “always three people there”, including Stein.

Asked by the prosecutor if Charlise ever expressed an opinion about Stein, the grandfather said: “She said that she really liked Justin, and she asked me if … I thought that he would be a good dad”.

Mutten Snr said Charlise “cried herself to sleep” when a planned visit to see her mother was cancelled in Easter 2021 due to Kallista Mutten being hospitalised for mental health issues, but was “happy and excited” when it was rescheduled for December 2021 and packed her favourite toys.

“I was under the impression that she’d be staying with her mother, her [mother’s] fiance Justin Stein, and Justin Stein’s mother,” he said, adding this was at Wildenstein, which was also a wedding venue.

“I was told that there would be times, as a getaway, they would be staying at a holiday venue on a river.”

Mutten Snr said Charlise had called him once while she was away to show off her new haircut, and as she played with a little dog.

“She was in very good spirits and happy,” he said. “She told me she loved me.”

He said he had emailed Stein about Charlise “a week before her murder”, asking that she have a COVID-19 test so that she could fly home on January 18, but received no reply.
...'
'May 14, 2024 - 1:24PM'

'Mr Mutten told the court Charlise had lived with her mother for the first four years of her life, before her grandparents informally took custody of her.'

'“Kallista realised that she wasn’t providing adequate care and she was quite happy for Charlise to come and live with us,” he told the court.'
 
Last edited:

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BFew said:
With Charlise's maternal grandparents having now been confirmed (in Court today) as being legal guardians (permanently I assume) of Charlise, it's not hard to understand why NSW FACS was probably not required to be involved in decisions relating to Charlise's care (Edit) after Guardianship of Charlise occurred.

Whether the law/policy needs changing so that they should have been, is open for debate.

www.abc.net.au

Charlise Mutten asked grandfather if alleged killer would make 'good father', court told

The grandfather of Charlise Mutten has told court of his granddaughter's unconditional love for her mother and her question about whether her accused killer would make a good father.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Charlise Mutten's grandfather describes granddaughter's 'unconditional love', questions of alleged killer​

Posted 14m ago
...
The trial heard Charlise was under the care of her grandparents in Tweed Heads after the girl's mother, Kallista Mutten agreed "she wasn't providing adequate care" for her daughter.
...
Jurors were told the grandparents then became legal guardians of Charlise when her mother was sentenced to prison for dangerous driving occasioning death
...
During cross examination from Mr Stein's lawyer, Carolyn Davenport SC questioned Mr Mutten's knowledge of his daughter's on-going drug use and Mr Stein's criminal history when plans were made to send Charlise to them.

"You must have been very concerned about sending that young child to an environment that at best was maybe questionable?" Ms Davenport SC asked.

"No, because I was under the impression that both had cleaned their act up," Mr Mutten replied.

Ms Davenport SC suggested to Mr Mutten that his daughter was not "particularly honest" about her drug use, to which he agreed.
...'

www.smh.com.au

Charlise Mutten asked if her alleged killer would make a good dad, jury told

The nine-year-old girl was excited to visit her mother, Kallista Mutten, and her mother’s fiance, Justin Stein, before her alleged murder, her grandfather has said.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

Charlise Mutten asked if her alleged killer would make a good dad, jury told​

May 14, 2024 — 12.38pm
...
Asked by Crown prosecutor Nicholas Marney about Charlise’s relationship with her mother, the grandfather said it was “very loving” and “unconditional”, and their strong bond “was always there”.

“Charlise would cry at times, saying that she missed her mother,” he said. “She looked forward to communicating with her.”

He said Charlise would video-call her mother, but there were “always three people there”, including Stein.

Asked by the prosecutor if Charlise ever expressed an opinion about Stein, the grandfather said: “She said that she really liked Justin, and she asked me if … I thought that he would be a good dad”.

Mutten Snr said Charlise “cried herself to sleep” when a planned visit to see her mother was cancelled in Easter 2021 due to Kallista Mutten being hospitalised for mental health issues, but was “happy and excited” when it was rescheduled for December 2021 and packed her favourite toys.

“I was under the impression that she’d be staying with her mother, her [mother’s] fiance Justin Stein, and Justin Stein’s mother,” he said, adding this was at Wildenstein, which was also a wedding venue.

“I was told that there would be times, as a getaway, they would be staying at a holiday venue on a river.”

Mutten Snr said Charlise had called him once while she was away to show off her new haircut, and as she played with a little dog.

“She was in very good spirits and happy,” he said. “She told me she loved me.”

He said he had emailed Stein about Charlise “a week before her murder”, asking that she have a COVID-19 test so that she could fly home on January 18, but received no reply.
...'
'May 14, 2024 - 1:24PM'

'Mr Mutten told the court Charlise had lived with her mother for the first four years of her life, before her grandparents informally took custody of her.'

'“Kallista realised that she wasn’t providing adequate care and she was quite happy for Charlise to come and live with us,” he told the court.'
Click to expand...
I think it only makes sense there’s still FACS involvement. Many children go into guardianship after being in care under FACS with a family member or foster carer. This doesn’t erase the parents (who are not able to care for their children) and leaves the people who have Guardianship to manage this situation themselves.
 
Also just want to add that any comments I make aren’t laying any blame on anyone else/the system, except the mongrel who did this. Just that looking at improvements /alternative supports would be helpful.
 
Underarrest_ said:
I think it only makes sense there’s still FACS involvement. Many children go into guardianship after being in care under FACS with a family member or foster carer. This doesn’t erase the parents (who are not able to care for their children) and leaves the people who have Guardianship to manage this situation themselves.
Click to expand...

Assuming their was a formal guardianship in place, I assume that the guardianship would have come under a QLD Long-term Guardianship Order and not the NSW equivalent I posted info on earlier today.

Whether the QLD guardian of a child support referred to below includes advice on risks in the situations that Charlise faced in holidaying with her parents, is unclear.

Even if generalised or case specific advice was provided directly or from a referred to online resource or community organisation, the advice might have not made any difference in what happened, with Charlise's maternal grandfather claiming what he did today about him believing/claiming that he was told that Justin Stein's mother would be present on the holiday, and that Charlise's mother and fiancee (Justin) had cleaned up their act, which appears to not be the case.


'Under this arrangement, the guardian accepts full parental responsibility for all aspects of the child’s care. This enables the guardian to make all decisions about the child’s daily needs and long-term care, wellbeing and development.'

'What if a child or a guardian requires support?
At any time following a Long-term Guardianship Order, the child or guardian may request support from Child Safety. The Child Safety Offi cer is responsible for discussing the request with the Team Leader, facilitating the provision of support and if applicable, obtaining approval of requests for financial support for an eligible guardian.'
 
BFew said:
Ms Davenport SC suggested to Mr Mutten that his daughter was not "particularly honest" about her drug use, to which he agreed
Click to expand...
This is what I meant in the previous post. The poor grandparents would have wanted to believe their daughter, but drug users will say anything to get their way.
 
BFew said:
Assuming their was a formal guardianship in place, I assume that the guardianship would have come under a QLD Long-term Guardianship Order and not the NSW equivalent I posted info on earlier today.

Whether the QLD guardian of a child support referred to below includes advice on risks in the situations that Charlise faced in holidaying with her parents, is unclear.

Even if generalised or case specific advice was provided directly or from a referred to online resource or community organisation, the advice might have not made any difference in what happened, with Charlise's maternal grandfather claiming what he did today about him believing/claiming that he was told that Justin Stein's mother would be present on the holiday, and that Charlise's mother and fiancee (Justin) had cleaned up their act, which appears to not be the case.


'Under this arrangement, the guardian accepts full parental responsibility for all aspects of the child’s care. This enables the guardian to make all decisions about the child’s daily needs and long-term care, wellbeing and development.'

'What if a child or a guardian requires support?
At any time following a Long-term Guardianship Order, the child or guardian may request support from Child Safety. The Child Safety Offi cer is responsible for discussing the request with the Team Leader, facilitating the provision of support and if applicable, obtaining approval of requests for financial support for an eligible guardian.'
Click to expand...
Dogs_R_Us said:
This is what I meant in the previous post. The poor grandparents would have wanted to believe their daughter, but drug users will say anything to get their way.
Click to expand...
Yes and unfortunately when you are a carer/have Guardianship of a child there is much complexity in the family unit to deal with and often difficult to manage.
 
Underarrest_ said:
Also just want to add that any comments I make aren’t laying any blame on anyone else/the system, except the mongrel who did this. Just that looking at improvements /alternative supports would be helpful.
Click to expand...
There's probably more questions to be answered on the monitoring and support of released criminals, who are diagnosed and treated for severe mental illnesses like those classified as with schizophrenia, or medicated with anti-psychotics.

The accused might not have been under a NSW Community Treatment Order at the time of Charlise's death.

He could have been under the treatment of a Private Psychiatrist and his GP, as opposed to a severely under-resourced and with limited mandatory treatment responsibilities Community Mental Health Centres (which don't provide GP services or currently integrate very well with a patient's GP). Centres which in NSW treat both patients under Community Treatment Orders and those that are not, or no longer on Community Treatment Orders.

As far as I know, NSW Community Mental Health Centres are owned and attached to (or nearby to) some of the larger NSW Public Hospitals.
 
BFew said:
There's probably more questions to be answered on the monitoring and support of released criminals, who are diagnosed and treated for severe mental illnesses like those classified as with schizophrenia, or medicated with anti-psychotics.

The accused might not have been under a NSW Community Treatment Order at the time of Charlise's death.

He could have been under the treatment of a Private Psychiatrist and his GP, as opposed to a severely under-resourced and with limited mandatory treatment responsibilities Community Mental Health Centres (which don't provide GP services or currently integrate very well with a patient's GP). Centres which in NSW treat both patients under Community Treatment Orders and those that are not, or no longer on Community Treatment Orders.

As far as I know, NSW Community Mental Health Centres are owned and attached to (or nearby to) some of the larger NSW Public Hospitals.
Click to expand...
Yes of course, all goes hand in hand.
 
BFew said:
Assuming their was a formal guardianship in place, I assume that the guardianship would have come under a QLD Long-term Guardianship Order and not the NSW equivalent I posted info on earlier today.

Whether the QLD guardian of a child support referred to below includes advice on risks in the situations that Charlise faced in holidaying with her parents, is unclear.

Even if generalised or case specific advice was provided directly or from a referred to online resource or community organisation, the advice might have not made any difference in what happened, with Charlise's maternal grandfather claiming what he did today about him believing/claiming that he was told that Justin Stein's mother would be present on the holiday, and that Charlise's mother and fiancee (Justin) had cleaned up their act, which appears to not be the case.


'Under this arrangement, the guardian accepts full parental responsibility for all aspects of the child’s care. This enables the guardian to make all decisions about the child’s daily needs and long-term care, wellbeing and development.'

'What if a child or a guardian requires support?
At any time following a Long-term Guardianship Order, the child or guardian may request support from Child Safety. The Child Safety Offi cer is responsible for discussing the request with the Team Leader, facilitating the provision of support and if applicable, obtaining approval of requests for financial support for an eligible guardian.'
Click to expand...
It would be helpful if this was streamlined to child safety providing continued support to guardians, especially when the guardian is allowing the child to connect with the parent, instead of them having to ask for support. It’s often difficult to assess risk which child safety can help with. Still not foolproof of course but could decrease risk.
 
Kurve said:
They didn't find the gun responsible iirc. Do we know what kind of gun ballistics determined it as?
Click to expand...
In court yesterday, the flower enthusiast that reported a strange bush hole covered with sticks to crimestoppers that led Police to find the accused's buried alleged weapons on 30th Jan 2022 (including the accused's eBay rifle scope with the accused's fingerprint on it) gave her evidence.

'Justin Stein allegedly murdered schoolgirl Charlise Mutten and buried murder weapon​

Police were alerted to the alleged murder weapon used to kill a nine-year-old girl after a flower enthusiast stumbled upon the scene, a jury has been told.'

'May 15, 2024 - 6:11AM
...
A flower enthusiast accidentally stumbled upon a stash of weapons police allege were used by a man accused of murdering the nine-year-old daughter of his partner, a jury has been told.
...
The jury, consisting of five women and 10 men
...
The jury has also been told Mr Stein had an “interest” in firearms, after he and Ms Mutten broke into a Mount Wilson house in August 2021 and stole property including two firearms.

One of the firearms was of “importance in the case,” the jury was told, with Mr Stein later ordering a hunting rifle scope on eBay in late 2021.

Crown prosecutor Ken McKay SC told the jury the scope, along with the weapons, was later found buried on a Mount Wilson fire trail.

The woman who stumbled across the weapons gave evidence in the trial on Tuesday.

Verity Harris has a keen interest in flowers and was walking down a bushtrack on January 30, 2022, almost two weeks after Charlise’s body was recovered, when she realised she had to go to the bathroom.

She found an “open area with a hole an animal had dug up” and went about her business, the jury was told, before finding a patch of dirt covered with sticks.

“It looked like a specially dug area that had been covered up with branches, I thought it looked odd,” Ms Harris told the court.

Ms Harris didn’t think about contacting police until she later spoke with her son, who is a volunteer for the Royal Fire Service.

He told her the RFS had been part of the search to find Charlise and suggested his mother report what she had seen to Crime Stoppers.

After reporting what she saw, police uncovered a blue tarp filled with two firearms and the scope allegedly bought by Mr Stein.

Mr McKay showed a photo of the contents of the tarp to the jury on Monday. They were told the scope had a fingerprint of the accused.

The jury was told Mr Stein had called his mother from prison months later on March 21, 2022, and asked her to “retrieve stuff for him from the mountains”.

“He said ‘I borrowed certain things from my friend, I dumped them in the bush so I need you to retrieve them for me’,” Mr McKay told the jury.

Mr Stein’s mother informed her son the police had already discovered the stash of weapons as she was shown an image by police, the jury heard, but he told his mother the “murder weapon isn’t anywhere to be found”.

After his arrest in January 2022, Mr Stein denied killing Charlise in an interview with a Corrective Services officer but said he was “in the vicinity when Kallista Mutten shot and killed the girl,” the jury heard.
...'
 

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Charlise was lethargic and sick - did he give her drugs as well? Were there blood tests done?

"I disposed of the body but Kallista shot her..." I don't think so.

I do wonder though, about the phone calls between the two while he was driving around with the barrel in the back of the vehicle. Did Kallista know about the barrel and what was in it?
 
Dogs_R_Us said:
Charlise was lethargic and sick - did he give her drugs as well? Were there blood tests done?

"I disposed of the body but Kallista shot her..." I don't think so.

I do wonder though, about the phone calls between the two while he was driving around with the barrel in the back of the vehicle. Did Kallista know about the barrel and what was in it?
Click to expand...

Stein's medication for schizophrenia was found in her system.

The phone calls and text messages were misrepresented in the press, there's nothing in them IMO that indicates the mother was involved.
 
Kurve said:
The phone calls and text messages were misrepresented in the press, there's nothing in them IMO that indicates the mother was involved.
Click to expand...
Let's see if Charlise's mother's triple zero call to operator to report her daughter missing (missing from 2 nights earlier!) is going to assist or more implicate the accused. The call was played to the jury in court this morning.

www.smh.com.au

‘I need to report my daughter missing’: Triple-zero call from Charlise Mutten’s mother

A jury has heard Kallista Mutten’s call on the morning of January 14, 2022, sobbing as she said she had last seen her nine-year-old daughter “two nights ago”.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

'I need to report my daughter missing’: Triple-zero call from Charlise Mutten’s mother​

By Sarah McPhee​

May 15, 2024 — 11.36am
A jury has heard the moment Charlise Mutten’s mother reported her daughter missing from the Blue Mountains, sobbing as she told a triple-zero operator she last saw the nine-year-old “two nights ago” and had left her with her fiance Justin Stein.
...
The phone call, made by Kallista Mutten at 8.12am on January 14, 2022, was played at Stein’s NSW Supreme Court trial on Wednesday.

In the recording, the operator stated, “Go ahead, you’ve got the police”, and Kallista Mutten cried as she replied, “I need to report my daughter missing … she’s nine”.

She said Charlise had disappeared from the property on Shadforth Road at Mount Wilson, which is Stein’s family estate called Wildenstein, and that she was using the landline due to phone reception.

Asked when she last saw her daughter, the mother replied: “Two nights ago.”

“Where did she go two nights ago?” the operator asked.

“She was here, I wasn’t here, my partner was here,” Kallista Mutten replied.

“During the morning, she was really, she was sort of sick … lethargic … and I was two-and-a-half hours away.

“Justin and the lady that … came over to do the auction for his mum, which was her friend, he asked if she could mind her while he went and got me … didn’t want her in the car … throwing up.

“She was fine with that, and the lady said, ‘No worries, take all the time you want’, and when we got back, they were gone, and I thought maybe she’s taken … so I rung the hospitals, but nup.”

Asked whether “yesterday morning was the last time someone saw her”, Charlise’s mother replied, “Umm, yeah. I’ve been looking for her in the bush and everything, that’s why it’s taken two days.”

Kallista Mutten was told the police would come out and said: “My partner will be able to tell them what, you know, ’cause I wasn’t here.”

She was asked by the operator if she had “any thoughts of where she [Charlise] might have gone”, and she said her daughter was “here on holidays for a month”.

The operator said police would come out straight away and “they’ll start looking for your daughter”.
...'
 
Kurve said:
What makes him think his mother would be willing to go and retrieve his guns out of a bush hole? And that he can confide in her that the cops will never find the murder weapon.

Awful people.
Click to expand...
And that his phone calls in prison weren’t being listened to.
 
BFew said:
Let's see if Charlise's mother's triple zero call to operator to report her daughter missing (missing from 2 nights earlier!) is going to assist or more implicate the accused. The call was played to the jury in court this morning.

www.smh.com.au

‘I need to report my daughter missing’: Triple-zero call from Charlise Mutten’s mother

A jury has heard Kallista Mutten’s call on the morning of January 14, 2022, sobbing as she said she had last seen her nine-year-old daughter “two nights ago”.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

'I need to report my daughter missing’: Triple-zero call from Charlise Mutten’s mother​

By Sarah McPhee​

May 15, 2024 — 11.36am
A jury has heard the moment Charlise Mutten’s mother reported her daughter missing from the Blue Mountains, sobbing as she told a triple-zero operator she last saw the nine-year-old “two nights ago” and had left her with her fiance Justin Stein.
...
The phone call, made by Kallista Mutten at 8.12am on January 14, 2022, was played at Stein’s NSW Supreme Court trial on Wednesday.

In the recording, the operator stated, “Go ahead, you’ve got the police”, and Kallista Mutten cried as she replied, “I need to report my daughter missing … she’s nine”.

She said Charlise had disappeared from the property on Shadforth Road at Mount Wilson, which is Stein’s family estate called Wildenstein, and that she was using the landline due to phone reception.

Asked when she last saw her daughter, the mother replied: “Two nights ago.”

“Where did she go two nights ago?” the operator asked.

“She was here, I wasn’t here, my partner was here,” Kallista Mutten replied.

“During the morning, she was really, she was sort of sick … lethargic … and I was two-and-a-half hours away.

“Justin and the lady that … came over to do the auction for his mum, which was her friend, he asked if she could mind her while he went and got me … didn’t want her in the car … throwing up.

“She was fine with that, and the lady said, ‘No worries, take all the time you want’, and when we got back, they were gone, and I thought maybe she’s taken … so I rung the hospitals, but nup.”

Asked whether “yesterday morning was the last time someone saw her”, Charlise’s mother replied, “Umm, yeah. I’ve been looking for her in the bush and everything, that’s why it’s taken two days.”

Kallista Mutten was told the police would come out and said: “My partner will be able to tell them what, you know, ’cause I wasn’t here.”

She was asked by the operator if she had “any thoughts of where she [Charlise] might have gone”, and she said her daughter was “here on holidays for a month”.

The operator said police would come out straight away and “they’ll start looking for your daughter”.
...'
Click to expand...
Am I reading this correctly, Kallista told the operator it’s taken two days to report Charlise missing because she’s been looking in the bush?
Was she involved?
or
was she that under the influence of drugs, she didn’t have a clue what was happening?
 
Kurve said:
What makes him think his mother would be willing to go and retrieve his guns out of a bush hole? And that he can confide in her that the cops will never find the murder weapon.

Awful people.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's enough to judge his mum. He is a dishonest criminal junkie. He could have been desperate. He is still lying to her. As far we we know she had nothing to do with Charlise's murder. She and the grandparents are so far looking like the only decent folk involved in this saga.
 
Last edited:
sydney_gws said:
I don't think she is decent.
Not as bad as him, but after accidentally killing somebody due to drugs she had to be more responsible.
It is terrible her daughter was murdered by Stein,
but if that hadn't happened it's possible some other major wrong could have occurred at a later age.
Click to expand...
Nah, this is about Stein's mum. Mutten is nasty, for sure.
 
Last edited:
sydney_gws said:
I don't think she is decent.
Not as bad as him, but after accidentally killing somebody due to drugs she had to be more responsible.
It is terrible her daughter was murdered by Stein,
but if that hadn't happened it's possible some other major wrong could have occurred at a later age.
Click to expand...
What happened to the baby she was pregnant with at the time her daughter was killed? Was she permitted to keep it?
 
Lady O said:
What happened to the baby she was pregnant with at the time her daughter was killed? Was she permitted to keep it?
Click to expand...
I think she might have lost it 😟. Or never had it in the first place 🤔.
I couldn’t forgive her for leaving Charlise in Stein’s “care” while she went on a two-day drug binge.
 
Kurve said:
What makes him think his mother would be willing to go and retrieve his guns out of a bush hole? And that he can confide in her that the cops will never find the murder weapon.

Awful people.
Click to expand...

Right?! I just read the article and came here. I love my sons and would do anything for love, but I wont do that.

“You murdered a 9 year old girl, disposed of her body and now you’d like me to destroy evidence? Sure darling on my way”
 
Awakening said:
Right?! I just read the article and came here. I love my sons and would do anything for love, but I wont do that.

“You murdered a 9 year old girl, disposed of her body and now you’d like me to destroy evidence? Sure darling on my way”
Click to expand...
What are you insinuating Mrs Stein did or would have done? Why are you ####ing on her? What makes her "awful"?
 
Last edited:
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