AFL probes Ebert f/s draft

[noddy]

Whinge whinge whinge.
And they say we complain too much

There's the Port way = whinge whinge whine whine non stop.

& then there's the Crows way = a strategic murmur of whinge to the right people at the right time.

 

[Crowked]

Port Adelaide was the club that alerted the AFL to the possibility that Gibbs was ineligible.

dibba bobbers

Beware, Karma, the vengeful elephant is coming!

I hope they make Port keep Ebert on the list as punishement now.

 

[understudy]

The way he's going this could be a positive for port, maybe they will demand ebert is thrown back into the draft and the pick you used is returned to you .... lol

 

[Malibu#27]

The Age 29/7
Port Adelaide was the club that alerted the AFL to the possibility that Gibbs was ineligible. It was when the AFL ruled against the Crows that the status of Ebert came to the fore.

I read that too - it seems to contradict what John Reid said on 5AA where he said the AFL went away to investigate Gibbs eligibility after the Crows approached them regarding the procedure for Father Son picks.

Not saying it didn't happen, but if that was the case the timing must have been damn perfect to line up with the Crows going to ask the AFL about Gibbs.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

But if your club dosn't know when and how many games any player let alone a favourite son played for you who the bloody hell would?

The club knows how many games he played. But why would they investigate how many games he played between year x and y? The SA and WA F/S rule conditions were negotiated prior to the 2001 draft. The Foundation Cup was last played, IIRC in 1993. What's the bet that whoever was negotiating for SA forgot that these games were counted in the SANFL totals! Or do you believe that the SA and WA officials knew that preseason/ night series games were in their totals and deliberately tried to hoodwink the AFL officals?? The rules would have been drafted based on a broad principle rather than an investigation to the nth degree.

The only reason the Ebert case has now been picked up was because of a shear fluke. Back in April when Mr Crow asked a question about about the F/S rule, it was a fluke of timing that I showed a mate the 1977 official League Football in SA publication early that morning and I happened to look at Ebert's game total in 1977 as he was the only SA player that had a son drafted under the F/S rule.

I posted, that had the rule been 1 year later, Ebert would have been ineligible. I also questioned the fact that SA totals included non premiership games. Ford Fairlane asked a question but the discussion went no further. When a question was asked about Martin Leslie junior 's eligibility, I corrected my ascertain and said he was ineligible and Ford Fairlane continued to argue with me. He then took the question to the Adelaide board after a further debate about Chris Natt and Darrell Cahill boys and asked why is Bryce Gibbs available? If Advertiser journalists didn't read this board and people e-mail their clubs with questions, it would have never been picked up.

The Clubs and AFL don't sit around asking questions to the nth degree like some supprters on Big Footy. They worry about playing footy and making $$$$. A classic example of this is the 2005 Tribunal Reforms. Not enough relevant people asked "what if" questions so we have ended up with a defective inconsistent system.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

When a question was asked about Martin Leslie junior 's eligibility, I corrected my ascertain and said he was ineligible and Ford Fairlane continued to argue with me. He then took the question to the Adelaide board after a further debate about Chris Natt and Darrell Cahill boys and asked why is Bryce Gibbs available?

What did I argue with you about?

I only said Russell might be eligible if they counted State games in the total, as players often missed local games to play for SA. And since then, I'm even less certain because Russell played a season at North Melbourne during the qualifying period.

 

[celtic_pride]

They could penaise some draft picks for "cheating"

What a load of 'rot'...
Seems like an honest mistake to me. Port have done nothing wrong, and Ebert looks like a promising player of the future.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

What did I argue with you about?

I only said Russell might be eligible if they counted State games in the total, as players often missed local games to play for SA. And since then, I'm even less certain because Russell played a season at North Melbourne during the qualifying period.

Ok maybe it was more questioning rather than arguing. In the initial discussion you brought up the State game query. You queried whether there was a literal interpretation of "Home and Away plus finals game" or a more inclusive interpretation. You intially considered the broader definition rather than the narrow one, which I believed was correct. You continued to probe and ask questions on the issue. It wasn't a criticism it was an observation of how this issue has developed since April.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Ok maybe it was more questioning rather than arguing. In the initial discussion you brought up the State game query. You queried whether there was a literal interpretation of "Home and Away plus finals game" or a more inclusive interpretation. You intially considered the broader definition rather than the narrow one, which I believed was correct. You continued to probe and ask questions on the issue. It wasn't a criticism it was an observation of how this issue has developed since April.

OK. Yeah I was just suggesting an allowable inclusion of state games in the counted total might've lead to a 200 game conclusion. But now I just think somebody stuffed up.

At least now we have some clarity around how the rule is applied.

 

[roweman]

brett was taken with pick 42 in the 2002 draft....

can anyone remember how highly rated he was at the time??? and, had he not been taken by port adelaide under the f/s rule, where would he have gone in that draft???

 

[Ford Fairlane]

He would have been lucky to be drafted. His breakout year was after he was drafted.

 

[roweman]

i thought so....i remember something about his being lucky to be drafted but that port adelaide were in between a rock and a hard place, imagine if someone else had drafted him and an ebert was dominating somewhere apart from port adelaide....

having said that i'm happy we have him now, but wish chocco wld give him a decent run in the pivot...

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Anyway justice was done I'd say. Hard to imagine a more appropriate father son drafting than the progeny of Russell Ebert.

Now lets work on getting Bryce Gibbs to Port to rub salt in the wound.

 

[arrowman]

Anyway justice was done I'd say. Hard to imagine a more appropriate father son drafting than the progeny of Russell Ebert...

Maybe all these complicated rules just aren't necessary in some cases. Cases like the Eberts should come under the "Well, duh!" clause.

 

[Docker_Brat]

What a load of 'rot'...
Seems like an honest mistake to me. Port have done nothing wrong, and Ebert looks like a promising player of the future.

Freo made a balls up when trying to get Fabian Francis. Although a mistake, the club was rightly penalised.

If you take your eye off the speedo and slip above the speed limit. The cops still fine you.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Freo made a balls up when trying to get Fabian Francis. Although a mistake, the club was rightly penalised.

If you take your eye off the speedo and slip above the speed limit. The cops still fine you.

Freo's balls up was that they were over the salary cap and couldn't fit him in. The club didn't get penalised for signing Francis. I don't know why the AFL wouldn't let the players take a pay cut to squeeze him under the salary cap.

If you get caught speeding, and you have a valid reason,or the cops in a good mood, you may get let off. If your caught by a speed camera you can argue your case in a court of law if don't agree with it. The AFL may just be in a good mood about this one.

 

[MrMeaner]

Freo made a balls up when trying to get Fabian Francis. Although a mistake, the club was rightly penalised.

If you take your eye off the speedo and slip above the speed limit. The cops still fine you.

The AFL were not implicated in the Francis stuff-up.

In relation to your second point, the apt analogy is getting a police escort to take your partner to hospital. The cops will occasionally allow minor indiscretions to the assist the greater good

 

[Portia]

Or more to the point, the lottery commission giving you a big payout, you spending it all, and them realising they ********ed up.

Far as I'm aware, there's no mechanism for them to get their money back unless they can prove wilful deceit is how you got it. Oh look, thats what the AFL is trying.

 

[MrMeaner]

Oh look, thats what the AFL is trying.

Is it? Has there been a follow-up to the original item?

As far as I know, they are only investigating at the moment.

 

[Docker_Brat]

Freo's balls up was that they were over the salary cap and couldn't fit him in.

Well duuh. I know what they got done for.

If they knew they were over, they wouldn't have tried to sign Francis.

 

[Portia]

As far as I know, they are only investigating at the moment.

What's to investigate?

 

[arrowman]

What's to investigate?

Shrug, "investigate" doesn't necessarily mean "find out if we need to punish Port", it could just mean "find out what happened, clear it up, clarify the rules if necessary..."

I don't see that even if they found out that the Ebert drafting was not in line with the rules, they could or should do anything to "correct" it.

Except maybe they could strip Port of their 3rd round pick this year

 

[MrMeaner]

What's to investigate?

Ah, there's the problem. I was referring to investigations into what happened in order to ensure that the same mistake will not happen again.

Perhaps I was crediting the AFL with a sensibility that it does not deserve.

Edit: you just beat me to it arrowman.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Well duuh. I know what they got done for.

If they knew they were over, they wouldn't have tried to sign Francis.

So what point have you been trying to make? They didn't get fined for signing Francis. They never paid Francis. Freo had made a stuff up before signing Francis and were penalised for actions which broke AFL regulations.

Port didn't make a stuff up. They submitted a player name and the AFL accepted that player. The AFL didn't even understand their own regulations.

 

[Ripper]

Port didn't make a stuff up. They submitted a player name and the AFL accepted that player. The AFL didn't even understand their own regulations.

Niether did Freo. Andy banned us from taking Francis because he reckoned that we would exceed the Cap. When it was demonstrated that we could in fact fit him in ,(which was proven correct at the end of 2002), He changed his mind mid stream and then banned us because we had exceeded the cap the previous year.