All Divisions General NFNL Discussion Thread

[tasmanlvr]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/localfooty/junior-footy-opinion-why-its-time-for-a-points-system-to-protect-more-clubs/news-story/d44800ac58ed8e5aede1c23170cabb25

Junior footy opinion: Why it’s time for a points system to protect more clubs​

The vulture culture of senior football has trickled down to the kids. Powerful clubs are poaching young talent to help build their own future success and it’s time more leagues put measures in place to protect the smaller sides. Here’s how.

Junior footy is in danger of mimicking one of the biggest bugbears of senior footy with powerful clubs poaching players at younger ages to prop up their future premiership ambitions.
Now is the time for proactive responses to prevent ongoing and deepening divisions.

Restricted somewhat by the points system at senior level and adept at finding ways around salary caps, substantial evidence is emerging powerhouse clubs are now recruiting younger and younger players, aiming to build super teams at underage level and looking to avoid a points squeeze in the future.

In response some leagues, including the Bendigo Junior and Western competitions, have already implemented their own player points systems for juniors and it’s time for other to follow suit.

Junior points systems assist in minimising player movement and help maintain the evenness of the respective leagues. A maximum of 10 points is allowed on one team and must be monitored by the clubs.

Under the WFNL’s system, which has three categories, any player who plays junior interleague or finishes top-five in the league best-and-fairest attracts four points.

It would be fair to assume that most four-point kids are the most likely to move up to a club in a higher grade or feature heavily on the watchlist of representative programs including Talent League clubs.

Stories consistently swirl of families being warned that their talented child must play elsewhere or risk missing representative selection because their home club is not playing at a high enough level.

At a time when teenagers are dropping out of sports in droves, should we not be focusing on their enjoyment of playing alongside friends rather than persuading them to move to more powerful clubs on the off-chance of future success?

Again, it’s worth remembering the clubs which are targeting the best junior players are not doing it with underage premierships in mind. They have a much longer goal to build strong senior sides.

Under AFL Victoria’s player points system for men’s senior competition, any player who has played 40 or more games over a minimum of three seasons at a club or an aligned side is worth one point.

The more one point players a senior club has, the more scope it has to recruit higher ranked imports, most notably ex-AFL footballers, to bolster their senior grades.

So the big clubs are recruiting the top 15-year-olds into their underage teams at no cost, safe in the knowledge that when they hit senior footy they will only be worth one point.

Implementing a points system at junior level, would make it much harder for such a vulture culture to thrive.

If local football competitions continue to open themselves to a growing gap between the best and less talented sides, we’re going to lose more kids in the long run.

The argument can be made that some clubs are better resourced than others. This will always be the case and, while we are not necessarily promoting a structure where all must be equal, we must be asking what we can do to incentivise those smaller clubs to grow and beat the best. It’s almost impossible if their best teenagers are continually lured away.

It must also be disheartening for the junior coaches, many of whom are volunteers, and their remaining players whenever they lose their top young gun to a nearby rival.

As always, there will be cases where exemptions are necessary. For example, if a family is forced to move across town due to a lifestyle change, consideration must be given to why this player has moved clubs and the option to waive a points penalty must exist.

Similarly, no points penalty should be imposed when players are sadly forced to leave their home clubs due to player shortages.

Worryingly, if we don’t introduce such a points system, that sad reality is likely to become more commonplace.

If we don’t make changes now, we run the risk of the strong getting stronger while the weak battle to survive.

One of the best that Leader has put out in years. Unfortunately, I doubt the AFL will care so long as most of those kids go into APS or AGS and so long as they get their monies.

Actually genuinely high time for a full country-wide review of where the game is heading. Much, much overdue.

 

[10571z]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/localfooty/junior-footy-opinion-why-its-time-for-a-points-system-to-protect-more-clubs/news-story/d44800ac58ed8e5aede1c23170cabb25

Junior footy opinion: Why it’s time for a points system to protect more clubs​

The vulture culture of senior football has trickled down to the kids. Powerful clubs are poaching young talent to help build their own future success and it’s time more leagues put measures in place to protect the smaller sides. Here’s how.

Junior footy is in danger of mimicking one of the biggest bugbears of senior footy with powerful clubs poaching players at younger ages to prop up their future premiership ambitions.
Now is the time for proactive responses to prevent ongoing and deepening divisions.

Restricted somewhat by the points system at senior level and adept at finding ways around salary caps, substantial evidence is emerging powerhouse clubs are now recruiting younger and younger players, aiming to build super teams at underage level and looking to avoid a points squeeze in the future.

In response some leagues, including the Bendigo Junior and Western competitions, have already implemented their own player points systems for juniors and it’s time for other to follow suit.

Junior points systems assist in minimising player movement and help maintain the evenness of the respective leagues. A maximum of 10 points is allowed on one team and must be monitored by the clubs.

Under the WFNL’s system, which has three categories, any player who plays junior interleague or finishes top-five in the league best-and-fairest attracts four points.

It would be fair to assume that most four-point kids are the most likely to move up to a club in a higher grade or feature heavily on the watchlist of representative programs including Talent League clubs.

Stories consistently swirl of families being warned that their talented child must play elsewhere or risk missing representative selection because their home club is not playing at a high enough level.

At a time when teenagers are dropping out of sports in droves, should we not be focusing on their enjoyment of playing alongside friends rather than persuading them to move to more powerful clubs on the off-chance of future success?

Again, it’s worth remembering the clubs which are targeting the best junior players are not doing it with underage premierships in mind. They have a much longer goal to build strong senior sides.

Under AFL Victoria’s player points system for men’s senior competition, any player who has played 40 or more games over a minimum of three seasons at a club or an aligned side is worth one point.

The more one point players a senior club has, the more scope it has to recruit higher ranked imports, most notably ex-AFL footballers, to bolster their senior grades.

So the big clubs are recruiting the top 15-year-olds into their underage teams at no cost, safe in the knowledge that when they hit senior footy they will only be worth one point.

Implementing a points system at junior level, would make it much harder for such a vulture culture to thrive.

If local football competitions continue to open themselves to a growing gap between the best and less talented sides, we’re going to lose more kids in the long run.

The argument can be made that some clubs are better resourced than others. This will always be the case and, while we are not necessarily promoting a structure where all must be equal, we must be asking what we can do to incentivise those smaller clubs to grow and beat the best. It’s almost impossible if their best teenagers are continually lured away.

It must also be disheartening for the junior coaches, many of whom are volunteers, and their remaining players whenever they lose their top young gun to a nearby rival.

As always, there will be cases where exemptions are necessary. For example, if a family is forced to move across town due to a lifestyle change, consideration must be given to why this player has moved clubs and the option to waive a points penalty must exist.

Similarly, no points penalty should be imposed when players are sadly forced to leave their home clubs due to player shortages.

Worryingly, if we don’t introduce such a points system, that sad reality is likely to become more commonplace.

If we don’t make changes now, we run the risk of the strong getting stronger while the weak battle to survive.

It’s genuinely embarrassing some of the junior movement. Remember when you just played for your local club with your school mates?

How many Boom fit type programs are there now sucking in parents wanting their bang on average kid to excel and make AFL.

The trainstop academy is the worst. Genuinely reserves footballers thinking they can play VFL or AFL.

 

[NorthernBastard]

It’s genuinely embarrassing some of the junior movement. Remember when you just played for your local club with your school mates?

How many Boom fit type programs are there now sucking in parents wanting their bang on average kid to excel and make AFL.

The trainstop academy is the worst. Genuinely reserves footballers thinking they can play VFL or AFL.

Could not agree more with all this

 

[Local Knowledge]

Are the 2's still starting at the normal time tomorrow? I thought there was a law that prevented sport being played before 1:00 p.m on Anzac Day if an entry fee was charged. Can't see clubs letting people in for free.

 

[10571z]

Are the 2's still starting at the normal time tomorrow? I thought there was a law that prevented sport being played before 1:00 p.m on Anzac Day if an entry fee was charged. Can't see clubs letting people in for free.

Normal times, clubs can’t charge entry fees unless by approval.

 

[Itspetracca]

What's with clubs doing their own trial by video and putting players up to the league more than a week after the said game. Believe said club asked for an incident to be investigated and when it was thrown out at the tribunal found another incident for investigation which stuck. Surely if a club has an issue its brought up on Monday after the game not 10 days later.

 

[hfchfc]

What's with clubs doing their own trial by video and putting players up to the league more than a week after the said game. Believe said club asked for an incident to be investigated and when it was thrown out at the tribunal found another incident for investigation which stuck. Surely if a club has an issue its brought up on Monday after the game not 10 days later.

Which club?

 

[Itspetracca]

Which club?

Was just pub talk but end of the train line after a local Derby. a bit of tit for tat may have occurred.

 

[10571z]

Was just pub talk but end of the train line after a local Derby. a bit of tit for tat may have occurred.

No investigation will be accepted after the deadline Monday so I think your pub talk is BS

Either way I have no issue with clubs asking for incidents to be looked at. Still too many w***ers whacking blokes causing long term brain injury’s to hobbie footballers.

 

[Itspetracca]

No investigation will be accepted after the deadline Monday so I think your pub talk is BS

Either way I have no issue with clubs asking for incidents to be looked at. Still too many w***ers whacking blokes causing long term brain injury’s to hobbie footballers.

I agree but the way it was explained to me was when the first investigation failed the club put another incident forward which stuck. Maybe it was just two separate incidents in question at the start. Not the first time stories have got changed/mixed up/made up over the drip tray and wont be the last

 

[10571z]

I agree but the way it was explained to me was when the first investigation failed the club put another incident forward which stuck. Maybe it was just two separate incidents in question at the start. Not the first time stories have got changed/mixed up/made up over the drip tray and wont be the last

Nup, that can’t happen. Once the deadline passes the doors closed. The league is clear that even 1 minute late they won’t accept. They don’t want clubs waiting to see if they are dobbed in before retaliating for example.

 

[Denny Crane]

As was mentioned on Big Footy the Eltham Football Club lost one of its most loyal and colourful supporters to illness at 37 who was also a Big Footy contributor.

The funeral yesterday at the Panther was something many would have never seen before, absolutely close to 1200 people at the ground with many NFNL clubs represented showing he touched so many.

What it showed me was how much local football means to so many and how, when the game is over, we are all just local footy supporters who have genuine passion for each other.

The main message from his close mates and family I took was stick with your Club and mates, support each other and never shy away from telling your mates how you feel, one day you will not be able to tell them.

RIP #44 Josh 'Berger' Ernest. A Larger-than-life passionate Panther that will always be remembered, it was a privilege to have known you for all these years. Whilst I don't speak for the Club, I thank all who came to a wonderful send off.

 

[Triharder]

Have the NFNL given up on their website... everything is posted after the fact...no teams each week

 

[Denny Crane]

What’s the go with U19s? No fixtures remaining, were the first 5 rounds grading?

Denny’s thoughts and ideas.

Div 1 – 9 teams, Diamond Creek winless but some losses very close so competitive.

Div 2 – 6 teams, Whittlesea look like they are dominating, Macleod struggling

Div 3 – 7 teams, Heidelberg only undefeated but as a 2nds side.

Changes

Div 1 – Whittlesea move up and make it a 10-team competition. No byes

Div 2 – Merge 5 remaining with 7 from Div 3 and make a 12-team competition. Top 6 finals, no byes

OR

Div 1 – Diamond Creek to Div 2. 8 team competition, top 4 finals, no byes

Div 2 - Diamond Creek and Heidelberg2 join making an 8-team competition, top 4 finals, no byes.

Div 3 – Heidelberg2 leave rest remain for a 6-team competition, top 4, no byes.

OR

Give each side their own division and don’t keep scores have a bye every other week and award all a winner's medal at the end of the season with a group hug.

 

[10571z]

What’s the go with U19s? No fixtures remaining, were the first 5 rounds grading?

Denny’s thoughts and ideas.

Div 1 – 9 teams, Diamond Creek winless but some losses very close so competitive.

Div 2 – 6 teams, Whittlesea look like they are dominating, Macleod struggling

Div 3 – 7 teams, Heidelberg only undefeated but as a 2nds side.

Changes

Div 1 – Whittlesea move up and make it a 10-team competition. No byes

Div 2 – Merge 5 remaining with 7 from Div 3 and make a 12-team competition. Top 6 finals, no byes

OR

Div 1 – Diamond Creek to Div 2. 8 team competition, top 4 finals, no byes

Div 2 - Diamond Creek and Heidelberg2 join making an 8-team competition, top 4 finals, no byes.

Div 3 – Heidelberg2 leave rest remain for a 6-team competition, top 4, no byes.

OR

Give each side their own division and don’t keep scores have a bye every other week and award all a winner's medal at the end of the season with a group hug.

I’ve heard they are going to 2 divions 12 and 10 sides.

IMO 3 divisions works better as we are going to see some ugly results

 

[Doona2]

I’ve heard they are going to 2 divions 12 and 10 sides.

IMO 3 divisions works better as we are going to see some ugly results

Depends what the objective is from those in charge.

Player retention, and overall competition health across all senior clubs or something else.

Being lazy admittedly, as I haven't looked up or tried to find anything mission statement orientated or business focussed on the league website.

 

[10571z]

Depends what the objective is from those in charge.

Player retention, and overall competition health across all senior clubs or something else.

Being lazy admittedly, as I haven't looked up or tried to find anything mission statement orientated or business focussed on the league website.

I think the longer kids stay in with a chance of finals the better off.

 

[Rusted nuts]

Have the NFNL given up on their website... everything is posted after the fact...no teams each week

It’s actually embarassing how much of a circus this league is. I have a son playing in the EDFL and it feels that league is 2 steps ahead of the of clowns running the NFNL

 

[Denny Crane]

I think the longer kids stay in with a chance of finals the better off.

Kids I agree. Kids, U12s etc.

U19s I do not at all. If you are playing U19s and you still need a participation hug maybe the sport is not for you.

 

[baggersforflaggers]

2 divisions as stated is the mail.
Whittlesea up.
Merge Div 2 and 3.
Doesn’t help when Div 1 under 19 clubs such as Diamo (and Greensy last year) write to the league and state they must stay up otherwise kids will leave as want to play Div 1 and staying up will align with their seniors.
Why have grading then? Diamo don’t want to go down this year as they have had their 17s and 16s fold this year so if in Div 2 for 19s, they say they can’t attract those kids back.
Bad luck!

 

[Doona2]

Kids I agree. Kids, U12s etc.

U19s I do not at all. If you are playing U19s and you still need a participation hug maybe the sport is not for you.

If you're at that age group, even U16/17 and that's the case then only one demographic has truly let you down or failed both individual and that age bracket as a collective ... the adults involved along the way.

 

[Denny Crane]

2 divisions as stated is the mail.
Whittlesea up.
Merge Div 2 and 3.
Doesn’t help when Div 1 under 19 clubs such as Diamo (and Greensy last year) write to the league and state they must stay up otherwise kids will leave as want to play Div 1 and staying up will align with their seniors.
Why have grading then? Diamo don’t want to go down this year as they have had their 17s and 16s fold this year so if in Div 2 for 19s, they say they can’t attract those kids bad.
Bad luck!

I have a theory, play in the division you seniors are in, wild I know but lets say it works.

We have allowed clubs (parents) run a senior competition, that's what it is, a 3rds, they are men, many play seniors.

If clubs don't have U19s tough, should not define a competition due to so called demographics (or incompetence)

No one can say, since we used to do it that way it (U19s) has got better, it hasn't. The people that have tried to take it from a senior concept to whatever it is now have not improved it, probably cost it, certainly cost clubs having to have resources in different locations (ie U19s in Whittlesea and Seniors and Reserves at Heidelberg.....these support people come at a cost)

Let's get back to 3 games a week at grounds when we can, lets help those that don't have them but not sacrifice proper football competition with the "little johnny hates losing and will leave sooks" it has not worked, let them leave.

Also, I am open to a Friday night U19 competition. I think this has to be a move forward, if Clubs do not have proper lightening well they dont play or they use grounds that can work for them...or they play Sat morning. Many sports have moved aged groups to night, clubs that like having 19s on a Fri when they can, have to do all the work as the NFNL are too busy not doing anything productive. Just try a season with Fri Comp and Sat Comp, play which ever you want. Maybe see how that works.....or I dunno, continue this way, the NFNL way.

 

[Doona2]

When I first got into some casual Talent ID for Calder way back in around 2012/13 which was always the starting point to learn the system before progressing into other younger squad roles etc - from memory I would often do Friday night NFL U19 clashes yeh?

 

[Mappa]

The realignment of the Under 19s has been very poor to say the least. It appears nothing more than a case of the tail wagging the dog. It should have remained as three divisions, and the clubs are TOLD where they are playing, not asked.

The league's role should be to place each team in their appropriate grade after 5 rounds. If not, then what is the point of having grading at all? If a Club has their ego dented for a season, then so be it. In the Senior grades, clubs don't get a chance to appeal to the league where they play. The results dictate that. If you are last, you go down, if you win the flag, you go up. The Under 19s should be no different. If you are belting teams, then you belong in a higher grade. If you are struggling, you go down where you might be more competitive.

I have also heard of clubs that want to play in Div 1 because their kids won't play in Div 2, or it's not as attractive to recruit players etc. Let's be fair dinkum though, how many are we talking? A couple of kids at most. They want to put themselves in the shop window of the Knights (or maybe their parents do), or they are told "you have to play Div 1 or we won't look at you". The case of the few shouldn't be dictating common sense for the rest. I'm very confident that if that if you asked the kids at Diamond Creek (for instance) if they mind going down to Div 2, that VAST majority would shrug their shoulders, say "whatever" and just get on with the season.

Reducing it to two divisions does nothing to improve the competitiveness. In fact, it just widens the gap. The likes of Kinglake and Epping now have to come up against the likes of South Morang and Laurimar. Kinglake were beaten by 132 points by Heidelberg in Div 3. What might the other two do to them? It seems to me that the powerful club like Heidelberg has more of a say than the smaller club like Kinglake, and that's plain wrong. If they are (wrongly) going to make it two divisions, then all of Laurimar, South Morang and Whittlesea should have been promoted.

The grading should have changed the divisions to this...

DIV 1 - In: Whittlesea. Out: DC & Mont. 8 Teams

DIV 2 - In: Heidelberg (Div 3) and DC & Mont (Div 1). Out: OP & Macleod (Div 3) and Whittlesea (Div1). 6 Teams

Div 3 - In OP & Macleod. Out: Heidelberg. 8 Teams

 

[Kangaman4lyf]

The realignment of the Under 19s has been very poor to say the least. It appears nothing more than a case of the tail wagging the dog. It should have remained as three divisions, and the clubs are TOLD where they are playing, not asked.

The league's role should be to place each team in their appropriate grade after 5 rounds. If not, then what is the point of having grading at all? If a Club has their ego dented for a season, then so be it. In the Senior grades, clubs don't get a chance to appeal to the league where they play. The results dictate that. If you are last, you go down, if you win the flag, you go up. The Under 19s should be no different. If you are belting teams, then you belong in a higher grade. If you are struggling, you go down where you might be more competitive.

I have also heard of clubs that want to play in Div 1 because their kids won't play in Div 2, or it's not as attractive to recruit players etc. Let's be fair dinkum though, how many are we talking? A couple of kids at most. They want to put themselves in the shop window of the Knights (or maybe their parents do), or they are told "you have to play Div 1 or we won't look at you". The case of the few shouldn't be dictating common sense for the rest. I'm very confident that if that if you asked the kids at Diamond Creek (for instance) if they mind going down to Div 2, that VAST majority would shrug their shoulders, say "whatever" and just get on with the season.

Reducing it to two divisions does nothing to improve the competitiveness. In fact, it just widens the gap. The likes of Kinglake and Epping now have to come up against the likes of South Morang and Laurimar. Kinglake were beaten by 132 points by Heidelberg in Div 3. What might the other two do to them? It seems to me that the powerful club like Heidelberg has more of a say than the smaller club like Kinglake, and that's plain wrong. If they are (wrongly) going to make it two divisions, then all of Laurimar, South Morang and Whittlesea should have been promoted.

The grading should have changed the divisions to this...

DIV 1 - In: Whittlesea. Out: DC & Mont. 8 Teams

DIV 2 - In: Heidelberg (Div 3) and DC & Mont (Div 1). Out: OP & Macleod (Div 3) and Whittlesea (Div1). 6 Teams

Div 3 - In OP & Macleod. Out: Heidelberg. 8 Teams

When there’s a schoolteacher on the board then you can connect the dots.