Amazing teams that could have been...

[demondavey]

Richmond 1980. Indeed The Herald's headline declared it "Tiger Time - Richmond set to dominate the 80's".

Michael Roach, leading goalkicker (112) @21
Mark Lee, season's dominant ruck @21
Dale Weightman, future HoF'er and already acknowledged by South coach Ian Stewart as "the most creative player in the game" @20
Geoff Raines, three-time b&f @24
stars David Cloke, Jim Jess & Robert Wiley @25
triple premiership wingman Bryan Wood @26
star veterans Bartlett, Bourke, Rowlings & Keane all going around next year
handy players Malthouse, Dunne, Strachan, Tempany, Landy all 27 & under

plus
Mark Jackson, century goalkicker in the Reserves @21
Peter Lane, century goalkicker in the U19's @19
Brian Taylor, just the one game @18
Maurice Rioli, teed up (arrived 1982)
Michael Aish, signed to a Form Four (never came)

The only downer was skipper Bruce Monteath returning to WA @25.

How did we screw it up?

Sacked Tony Jewell?

 

[chunkylover53]

Shaun Grigg (premiership ruckman)

How do you like them apples

Worse things can happen in life bro.

 

[00Stinger]

So was Essendon...

so Melbourne should have been premiers in 2000

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[RudyBlue]

so Melbourne should have been premiers in 2000

Weren't your mob playing funny buggers with the cap too? Maybe it was earlier

 

[Milanista28]

So was Essendon...

 

[Milanista28]

Carlton in 2000. Kouta, the best player in the competition, does his knee vs Essendon in Round 20 early on in front of the biggest crowd in H&A history for a Carlton v Essendon game. His knee clashed with Jason Johnson's during a ruck contest. The two teams were pretty much neck and neck until the final quarter where Essendon kicked away after Bradley did his hamstring, so Carlton were two down on the bench. The next week, the Bulldogs beat them. Carlton didn't resort to flooding tactics though and had were even stevens with them for most of the game. Kouta IMO would've made the difference at the end, they were the only team in the competition that had the class and ability to thwart an Essendon flag but it all came undone with injuries to some very important players Losing Kouta at full flight hurt - a lot - there wasn't a thing Essendon could've done to stop him at full flight.

I have no doubt we would have made Essendon s**t their pants in the GF with a fully fit team with Koutoufides, anything could've happened on that day. Just look at Geelong in 2008 as a great case example of how a seemingly invincible team can be beaten (at that point Geelong had a greater dominant year than Essendon's 2000 until the Hawks spoiled it) It would've been a hell of a lot more competitive than what Melbourne dished up. Memories of him single-handedly taking the PF away from them would've been on their minds I'm sure. I remember the year after in 2001 they deliberately tanked the Richmond game in Round 22 so we wouldn't finish top 4 and face them. In fact, The Old Dark Navy's made an epic thread about that as it happened... remember it from such a long time ago.

You were never a chance in 2000 no one was.

 

[Post padding]

Would Carey still have banged his best mates mrs?

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Maybe but would she have already been occupied with other team members ‍

 

[Post padding]

If Judd stayed at WC and Cousins (esp)/ Kerr/ Hunter/ Fletcher weren't drug taking fools.

If the last 4 weren’t drug taking fools Judd would have probably stayed

 

[00Stinger]

Weren't your mob playing funny buggers with the cap too? Maybe it was earlier

Yeah I think we might have been.

 

[Rotayjay]

With Bulldogs moving on Stringer and now Dahlhaus, Port Adelaide moving on players like Jake Neade, Jared Polec and possibly even Chad Wingard - it actually disappoints me a little that we don't get to see the fulfilled potential of Port 2014, Dogs 2016. Both flashes in the pan it seems. I also think sometimes about the Cats' potential for success in '12 '13 '14 when Gary was winning brownlows playing for the wrong club.

I'm sure that every fan has a 'what if' story from their club, I'm curious what it is..

In response to the first three comments:

1. Yes, I think Polec is a good player
2. Yes, it's true that the Dogs won a flag, but they never found that form again.
3. No, it's not off-season

Many of us thought the '16 Bulldogs would do a lot more. But actually winning a flag on the back of four upset victories sounds like fulfilling potential to me. 'Just' one premiership is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

If only Carlton Of 2000 had of been a few more million out of the salary cap, oh what they could have been!

 

[Juddernaut08]

Irrelevant as your club was cheating by paying players illegally at the time.

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Imagine how good we could've been if the AFL didn't crack down on it?


P.s. so were multiple other teams, including Essendon and Melbourne - at least Essendon were good. Melbourne cheated and were still s**t.

In 1996, Essendon were fined a record $638,250 ($250,000 in back tax and penalties, $112,000 for draft tampering and $276,250 for breaching the salary cap regulations), forfeited their first, second and third round picks in the National Draft and were excluded from the 1997 rookie and pre-season drafts after a joint Australian Tax Office and AFL investigation found that they had committed serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap regulations totalling $514,500 between 1991 and 1996, including $110,000 in 1993 when Essendon won the premiership.[12]

In 1999, Melbourne were fined $600,000 and forfeited their first, second and third round picks in the National Draft for two years after it was found that they had committed serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap regulations totalling $810,000 between 1995 and 1998. Fremantle were handed Melbourne's first round pick for the 1999 National Draft as compensation for losing ruckman Jeff White to Melbourne.

 

[BF Tiger]

Just not good enough. There were better teams around and could not keep up. Reckon if Jezza had not have left at end of 1979 your boys would not have even won it 1980. We missed winning 4 flags in a row because of the 1980 gap year. 1983 for mine was one of most open seasons of the 80's. Any of top five had enough weapons to win. North went out in straight sets after finishing on top of ladder but had a super list. Should have done more. We may have won from Elimination Final if not for important suspensions and key injuries. Fitzroy also could have easily done better that year. In the end Hawks and Essendon played off in the grand final.

That's a long bow to draw. Richmond finished third in the H&A season, half a game off first (Geelong) and second (Carlton), but with a far superior percentage. Accounted comfortably for both of them in the finals while both of them went 0-2 in September that year. Richmond v Carlton/Geelong were split 1-1 during the season. A 1980 version Jesaulenko wasn't that good.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Richmond 1995 team. Had players like Richo, Knights, Broderick, Gale, Gasper and a heap of others. But, off field dramas and egos at board level saw Swooper Northey go to Brisbane and the Tigers bring in Robert Walls. The rest is history.


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Put us back 22yrs.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Sacked Tony Jewell?

That was a small part of it. The culture was still one of heads needing to roll if you didn’t win the flag.

1981 was a classic hangover year which saw the end of Jewell.

Bourke was appointed fresh from playing and drove the players hard. Gone after two years.

Raines was unhappy about being usurped in the centre by Rioli; he and Cloke left over cash in 1982, Taylor a year later, and the resulting poaching war sent the club back to the Stone Age.

 

[Blind Turn]

Mid 80s Essendon were the only team that the great Hawthorn team of that era feared. I often think about the possibility of that side winning 3-4 in a row.

Tim Watson is one of the true talismanic players I’ve come across. He is in the best 10 or so players I have seen play the game in the past 40 years. The proof of that is reflective in the slump that occurred when he was wiped out for the best part of 2 years (‘86/‘87) with a knee injury.

We also had the loss of Neagle to Sydney in ‘86, a total of 15 games for VanderHaar from ‘86-‘88, Daisy Williams playing just 4 games in ‘86, and Merrett playing with a damaged elbow. We were well below full strength.

Add to that the fact that possibly the most gifted player of that era for us was Neale Daniher (Timmy and Leon Baker might be above him). Neale played barely a game of footy after ‘81. To have had him slotting in to that team in his peak years would have been something to behold.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Just not good enough. There were better teams around and could not keep up. Reckon if Jezza had not have left at end of 1979 your boys would not have even won it 1980. We missed winning 4 flags in a row because of the 1980 gap year.

It was a dominant team that annihilated the opposition, yet had occasional hiccups like the loss to wooden spooner Fitzroy and the dire last-round defeat in the wind at South.

We thrashed Carlton in front of a huge crowd then did it again in the QF at Waverley. Geelong was the only team that concerned me - hard-fought Waverley game + final, and a defeat in front of another big MCG crowd. The Collingwood players speak highly of that Richmond side.

Even after finishing top in 1982 and cruising into the GF, the team didn’t have the same appetite for destroying the opposition.

 

[bzparkes]

Yeah agree on the Port thing.

Most underachieving team forever, not sure if coached bad or what...

Have to be. Talented list, just can't get the best out of them. I'd be moving Hinkley on if I was Kochie. Last chance for him next year.

 

[PrinceCharles]

so Melbourne should have been premiers in 2000

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So was Melbourne...

 

[00Stinger]

So was Melbourne...

95-98 and were fined in 99.

 

[captain blood 17]

Got flogged by Geelong in preliminary by 16 goals, whom in turn were only the second best team of that year being 4 wins between first and second on ladder. Carlton then flogged Cats and were 85 points up in grand final before easing up to let Cats kick last 4 goals of grand final as we celebrated. Tigers 1995 team were a mile off...

We had been building. The point was we’ll never know as after that season Northey left and was replaced by Walls. Was a pretty talented team.


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[demondavey]

That was a small part of it. The culture was still one of heads needing to roll if you didn’t win the flag.

1981 was a classic hangover year which saw the end of Jewell.

Bourke was appointed fresh from playing and drove the players hard. Gone after two years.

Raines was unhappy about being usurped in the centre by Rioli; he and Cloke left over cash in 1982, Taylor a year later, and the resulting poaching war sent the club back to the Stone Age.

What did Raines do wrong or what could he have done do you think? I am interested to know where it all went wrong, because after 1964 we sacked Norm Smith and some say we never recovered.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What did Raines do wrong or what could he have done do you think? I am interested to know where it all went wrong, because after 1964 we sacked Norm Smith and some say we never recovered.

I was only a teenager and obviously don't know all the ins and outs. There was a bit of "new toy" about Rioli and he was instantly loved by the supporters and most of the public; reigning club champion "Pretty Boy" was suddenly playing second fiddle, although Raines has denied there was any tension between him and Rioli. There were money issues also, Rioli was earning a lot more. Read somewhere that Raines wanted the club to pay for the painting of his house, Graeme Richmond said no, and he walked.

He's on record as saying if he had his time over again, he would've stayed. A brilliant player, but four clubs means his legacy is not as shiny as it might've been.

 

[Captain_Bender]

That was a small part of it. The culture was still one of heads needing to roll if you didn’t win the flag.

1981 was a classic hangover year which saw the end of Jewell.

Bourke was appointed fresh from playing and drove the players hard. Gone after two years.

Raines was unhappy about being usurped in the centre by Rioli; he and Cloke left over cash in 1982, Taylor a year later, and the resulting poaching war sent the club back to the Stone Age.

Richmond in 1981 were pretty unlucky not to play finals finished 13-9, lost David Cloke and Mervyn Keane for most of the year and lost 4 games by under a goal

 

[BF Tiger]

I was only a teenager and obviously don't know all the ins and outs. There was a bit of "new toy" about Rioli and he was instantly loved by the supporters and most of the public; reigning club champion "Pretty Boy" was suddenly playing second fiddle, although Raines has denied there was any tension between him and Rioli. There were money issues also, Rioli was earning a lot more. Read somewhere that Raines wanted the club to pay for the painting of his house, Graeme Richmond said no, and he walked.

He's on record as saying if he had his time over again, he would've stayed. A brilliant player, but four clubs means his legacy is not as shiny as it might've been.

His brilliance significantly diminished after leaving Richmond. Three BnFs, including in a premiership year, while in yellow and black, but never got close to those levels. Could’ve ended up a Tiger legend if he stayed and ‘83 onwards didn’t happen.