Andrew Bolt - Dark Side of Justice. Tell me you disagree

[fairdinkum]

Bolt wrote a good article a couple of weeks ago, basically saying that the whole 'bushfire appeal' thing was iffy at best, and that giving money to those who were too lazy/stupid to insure their homes was actually going to do more harm in the long run.

It was so common sensical that I simply assumed it was not written by Bolt; that I was mistaken.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Have you ever lived in a town that the male population is primarily crime driven?

I worked for ALS in WA for four years

 

[Contra Mundum]

Point 1 - A 'man' was allowed to walk after digitally raping a four year old girl - the bastard should have been castrated and then sent into general pop.
Point 2 - Do Aboriginals get special treatment in the courts? I think overall they get more chances and possibly lighter sentences.
Point 3 - Would an Aboriginal man know that digitally raping a 4 year old girl is WRONG? Yes.
Point 4 - Are we all Australians and should we be treated equally? Yes.
Point 5 - None of the above means anything to the poor little girl who was raped. I want the Judge to explain to her when she is old enough why he didn't send the bastard to prison but also what he thinks 'our' justice system does to 'deter' and 'protect' people from scumbags like this.

I don't care whether there is room or not in our prisons or any of that peripheral crap. Anyone who digitally raoes a 4 year old girl should be severaly punished by the countries justice system.

Yeh but none of that is an argument against Koori Courts for non indictable offenses

 

[nut]

I worked for ALS in WA for four years

ALS? and what did you imply with your first post?

 

[Contra Mundum]

ALS? and what did you imply with your first post?

Aboriginal Legal Service - its a mark of honour amongst some crims to spend some time inside

 

[Upgrayedd]

You cant tackle the issue by over-representation of aborigionals in jail by just handing out suspended sentances

 

[nut]

Aboriginal Legal Service - its a mark of honour amongst some crims to spend some time inside

... yes... and the community in which I lived it was a type of initiation to adulthood.

 

[morgoth]

Very difficult topic, in a lot of cases it is hard to know what is right and wrong when it comes to the law and aboriginal Australia, but in the cases highlighted by Bolt their should be no leniency at all. Serious jail time is the only option.

IMO we perpetuate the victim mentality when we let aboriginals off for serious crime. They must know that the only reason they get off is their background, how would that make a community feel? Not good, IMO. Woman and children must feel utterly hopeless.

I was not aware of the Koori court so thanks for your insights Contra, I guess is is really no different to the juvenille system in that they try and re-habilitate v punish. If it has a higher success rate then more of it IMO.

 

[Bodicifer]

Yeh but none of that is an argument against Koori Courts for non indictable offenses

I'm not arguing against Koori Courts, not even making a statement or position on Koori Courts, what I am saying is that a scumbag like that should not be treated with kid gloves perhpas because he is Aboriginal. A child rapist is a child rapist, white, black, brown, purple, green...

Koori Courts for non-indictable offenses should be another topic, not one where a dirty bastard has digitally raped a 4 year old.

 

[Contra Mundum]

I'm not arguing against Koori Courts, not even making a statement or position on Koori Courts, what I am saying is that a scumbag like that should not be treated with kid gloves perhpas because he is Aboriginal. A child rapist is a child rapist, white, black, brown, purple, green...

Koori Courts for non-indictable offenses should be another topic, not one where a dirty bastard has digitally raped a 4 year old.

No worries - but it is typical Bolt to conflate the two.

 

[theGimp]

This case is an excellent argument for vigilante justice.

 

[Bodicifer]

This case is an excellent argument for vigilante justice.

Ha ha ha...

 

[Chief]

I'm confused.

Aboriginal males are over-represented in Australian jails by a factor of about 10.

Yet Bolt screams that we're too lenient on the Aboriginals.

I'm very confused. Here's an emoticon to highlight this confusion:

 

[Chief]

No - Bolt wants to protect Aboriginal women and children and to cease the cycle of violence and sexual abuse.

No, he wants to help his employer sell papers.

 

[medusala]

I'm confused.

Aboriginal males are over-represented in Australian jails by a factor of about 10.

Yet Bolt screams that we're too lenient on the Aboriginals.

I'm very confused.

Why would you be confused?

Why would you think that every ethnic group would have an equally proportionate incarceration rate?

 

[Daytripper]

I'm confused.

Aboriginal males are over-represented in Australian jails by a factor of about 10.

Yet Bolt screams that we're too lenient on the Aboriginals.

I'm very confused. Here's an emoticon to highlight this confusion:

Chief,
As an example if an ethnic group committed 1 in 8 crimes per individual, yet were imprisoned at a rate of 1 in 10 then they would be under-represented in jails.

Your statistic has no relevance unless you have the figures for the actual criminal rate per individual.

 

[Bodicifer]

I'm confused.

Aboriginal males are over-represented in Australian jails by a factor of about 10.

Yet Bolt screams that we're too lenient on the Aboriginals.

I'm very confused. Here's an emoticon to highlight this confusion:

About 16, with a re-offence rate of twice as many and a crime rate per capita around 9 times for offences such as assualt, robbery, motor vehicle theft and B+E.

Regardless of all this, a 4 year old girl was digitally raped and the scumbag who did it walked free.

 

[BigWardy12]

The Judge said that had he pleaded not guilty he would have been found not guilty. This guy showed so much shame and remorse that, instead of pleading not guilty and walking away with no sentence, he chose to plead guilty, admit to everything and take the punishment. that calls for a fair bit of leniency IMO.


The complete sentence that Bolt chose to cut and paste is "King is a man of Aboriginal origin who was not known to the family of the complainant."
Looks to me like hes trying to make the point that there was not connection between King and the girl.

 

[Bodicifer]

The Judge said that had he pleaded not guilty he would have been found not guilty. This guy showed so much shame and remorse that, instead of pleading guilty and walking away with no sentence, he chose to plead guilty, admit to everything and take the punishment. that calls for a fair bit of leniency IMO.


The complete sentence that Bolt chose to cut and paste is "King is a man of Aboriginal origin who was not known to the family of the complainant."
Looks to me like hes trying to make the point that there was not connection between King and the girl.

Value of hindsight. The fact is he admitted to digitally raping a 4 year old girl. The positive from it is that he admitted it saving time and money. The fact is though he digitally raped a 4 year old girl. Does the next bloke who digitally rapes a 4 year old girl simply go up, plead guilty and with the precedent that has been set, walk free? I agree with some leniency if you plead guilty but being set free for what he did is ludicrous.

 

[BigWardy12]

Value of hindsight. The fact is he admitted to digitally raping a 4 year old girl. The positive from it is that he admitted it saving time and money. The fact is though he digitally raped a 4 year old girl. Does the next bloke who digitally rapes a 4 year old girl simply go up, plead guilty and with the precedent that has been set, walk free? I agree with some leniency if you plead guilty but being set free for what he did is ludicrous.

I should add that I do think the offender should have received some jail time. I dont want it to sound like im excusing what he did. Just want to highlight some of the reasons the judge chose to be lenient, which was not because he was aboriginal.

But the facts of this case highlighted by the judge were that the act was relatively breif, no evidence of major damage or continual damage, physical or psychological, he was not in a position of trust, no premeditation. compare this with your average child rape case and it would be quiet low on the scale.

This together with his remorse and early guilty plea and the fact he had no previous sexual convictions points to a relatively low sentence.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

http://www.smartjustice.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=46

The International Crime Victimisation Survey has found that Australian attitudes to crime have become somewhat less punitive since 2000. 11 This is also reflected in the Australian Survey of Social Attitudes which has seen a decrease in the proportion of Australians who support stronger sentences. 12

Most recently this has been confirmed in a Melbourne University study by criminologist Dr Austin Lovegrove in which 475 participants were asked to give what they thought were appropriate sentences to a series of violent crimes. It was found that once people were made familiar with the personal circumstances of a violent crime they tended to give substantially more lenient sentences than the offenders actually received from the judge. 13 Thus, this study clearly refutes the commonly held view that judges are more lenient than the general public.

People favour rehabilitation as a purpose of sentencing for young offenders, first time offenders and property offenders, but unfortunately the perception can still be that rehabilitation generally is not very effective. 14

 

[Bodicifer]

http://www.smartjustice.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=46

And you are saying what????? Are you trying to say that the general public would have been even more lenient???? Let's give the bloke a medal

He digitally raped a 4 year old girl whilst masturbating. You can't dig half a hole or be half pregnant. You can't rape someone "a little bit". He admitted raping her. Rape is rape. He should have a custodial sentence. He digitally raped a 4 year old girl. WTF

 

[ieasys00]

I should add that I do think the offender should have received some jail time ..
This together with his remorse and early guilty plea and the fact he had no previous sexual convictions points to a relatively low sentence.

I found another article you may find interesting which sheds some light on why he didnt serve jail time:

"However, King got a further 25 per cent discount because without his confession to the police there was no doubt in the judge's mind that he would not have been found guilty at trial for the offence charged: sexual intercourse with a child under 10 years.

Had he been charged with indecent assault, there was probably enough evidence to convict him. But he wasn't.

Put bluntly, if King had shut up he would have got off. Partly, that would be attributable to the difficulty of evidence from such a young victim.
This entitled King to further leniency. Together with the guilty plea this took his sentencing discount to 50 per cent."

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/publi...ry-is-a-fraught-one-20090305-8pvp.html?page=2

 

[theGimp]

http://www.smartjustice.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=46

Interesting read.
Hardly a convincing 'study' though.

The cases were presented to the public by ex judges who would have had a vested interest in getting the public to suggest a lighter sentence.

The prosecutions view was not provided to the public at all.

Hand picked cases (by judges)

One of the cases described had the public suggesting a longer jail term.
Oops, Dont tell anyone about that one.

details:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/does-the-time-fit-the-crime/2006/09/29/1159337334468.html

 

[Lance Uppercut]

And you are saying what????? Are you trying to say that the general public would have been even more lenient???? Let's give the bloke a medal

He digitally raped a 4 year old girl whilst masturbating. You can't dig half a hole or be half pregnant. You can't rape someone "a little bit". He admitted raping her. Rape is rape. He should have a custodial sentence. He digitally raped a 4 year old girl. WTF

Interesting read.
Hardly a convincing 'study' though.

The cases were presented to the public by ex judges who would have had a vested interest in getting the public to suggest a lighter sentence.

The prosecutions view was not provided to the public at all.

Hand picked cases (by judges)

One of the cases described had the public suggesting a longer jail term.
Oops, Dont tell anyone about that one.

details:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/does-the-time-fit-the-crime/2006/09/29/1159337334468.html

calm down fellas, I'm not talking specifics of this case, but more generally.

When I first read this I was horrified as well.

I still am to be honest, but at least I have an appreciation of (some) of the facts. It's a tough one. My gut feel is there should be severe punishment, but if it's a incredibly remorseful first offender, then the only thing jail will do is harden him the **** up.

In many cases, jail is nothing more than college for small time crims to graduate into hardened tumours in society. But that's not to say it's never appropriate, by any means, and it may well be in this case. But it's important not to sensationalise cases like this too much (hey Andrew...)

I'm not saying the law gets it right every time, but I do get sick and tired of people who, without any of the facts, are happy to sit in judgement as though they have as much moral authority as a magistrate/judge, when they patently do not.

Edit: btw, thanks for the further reading TheGimp, always important to closely examine methodologies