Are Hawthorn better now than they were in the 1980's?

[Elite Master]

Has Hawthorn's era kicking off in 2008 to the present day already been more impressive than their era from 1983 till 1991? Will getting the 3-peat be enough if they are successful next season? or even then do they still have some work to do?

The 80's era ran for about 9 years, while the current era is still on going but so far has been around for 7 years. The 80s team has a larger body of work and made 8 Grand Finals in total, including 7 in a row and banking 5 premierships. The modern day team since and including 2008 have played in 4 Grand Finals, including 3 in a row and have netted 3 premierships overall thus far. Both teams in their respective generations have gone back-to-back.

The achievements of the 80's team/era for the moment still sounds more impressive on paper, but if Hawthorn go back-to-back-to-back next year then I think that might just be enough.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think you're forgetting how many Grand Finals Hawthorn played in in the 80's. This era, although very successful is not yet on the same level as that one.

 

[TazHawk15]

David Parkin thinks if the Hawks three peat then this will be the greatest Hawks era ever.

He was basing it on the extra teams and the equalisation measures in play these days.

If we go Back2Back2Back then you could mount a very good case because as good as the Hawks of the 80s were they never achieved a 3 peat.

Having said that the Hawk team of 1990 had the wood on the Collingwood and after winning 88/89 and 91 they could have won 4 in a row.

 

[Rainfall]

At least you mean success wise. I came into this thread thinking you wanted to see Dunstall vs Lake etc. Each team against e/o.

 

[Jables]

But the era didn't completely start and end in the 80's, 83 was 5 years after 78 and 91 was 2 years after 89, so it's probably wrong to say that a 3-peat is better than just constantly winning it every couple of years or so for a very long time. Can't count 2008 and not count 91, probably similar turnover in the teams.

As an individual team 2013-2015 would absolutely be our best if we win it again, considering the low turnover over these few years. Only number that counts is premierships when comparing teams.

 

[The Swert]

The 80's era ran for about 8 years, while the current era is still on going but so far has been around for 6 years. The 80s team has a larger body of work and made 7 Grand Finals in total, including 6 in a row and banking 5 premierships. The modern day team since and including 2008 have played in 4 Grand Finals, including 3 in a row and have netted 4 premierships overall thus far. Both teams in their respective generations have gone back-to-back.

Did I miss a premiership? Unless you're trying to count the 2013 VFL flag. And if you are then you would need to include the 1985 Reserves Premiership too.

 

[HolyWars]

Has Hawthorn's era kicking off in 2008 to the present day already been more impressive than their era from 1983 till 1991? Will getting the 3-peat be enough if they are successful next season? or even then do they still have some work to do?

The 80's era ran for about 9 years, while the current era is still on going but so far has been around for 7 years. The 80s team has a larger body of work and made 8 Grand Finals in total, including 7 in a row and banking 5 premierships. The modern day team since and including 2008 have played in 4 Grand Finals, including 3 in a row and have netted 3 premierships overall thus far. Both teams in their respective generations have gone back-to-back.

The achievements of the 80's team/era for the moment still sounds more impressive on paper, but if Hawthorn go back-to-back-to-back next year then I think that might just be enough.

Corrections in bold. That era went from 1983-1991.

If the club gets 3 in a row they will be close taking into consideration modern conditions of more clubs and equalization*.

 

[MinerBoy]

Even when we do win 2015 , the current team still won't be the equal of the 80s team..........which is the greatest in the history of football.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

1983: Premiers
1984: Runner Up
1985: Runner Up
1986: Premiers
1987: Runner Up
1988: Premiers
1989: Premiers
1990: 5th
1991: Premiers


2008: Premiers
2009: 9th
2010: 7th
2011: 3rd
2012: Runner Up
2013: Premiers
2014: Premiers

And when you consider that the difference between 2008 and 2013 is the same amount of time as 1978-1983 then the 80s team is still ahead.

 

[juss]

Still reckon the 80s era was more dominant and over a longer period.

 

[Retired Jimmy]

Has Hawthorn's era kicking off in 2008 to the present day already been more impressive than their era from 1983 till 1991? Will getting the 3-peat be enough if they are successful next season? or even then do they still have some work to do?

The 80's era ran for about 9 years, while the current era is still on going but so far has been around for 7 years. The 80s team has a larger body of work and made 8 Grand Finals in total, including 7 in a row and banking 5 premierships. The modern day team since and including 2008 have played in 4 Grand Finals, including 3 in a row and have netted 3 premierships overall thus far. Both teams in their respective generations have gone back-to-back.

The achievements of the 80's team/era for the moment still sounds more impressive on paper, but if Hawthorn go back-to-back-to-back next year then I think that might just be enough.

Been a "cute" little run by the Hawks, but still second to Geelongs efforts in the same period
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...r-than-hawthorns/story-fnjuhrxq-1227074773050
which in turn is a long long way behind the Hawks of the 80s

 

[TN25]

This team is great but I don't think it is as good as their team in the 80s

 

[Hawkk]

This is an interesting thread topic.

Hawthorn made 7 GF's in succession, if you decide to include 2011 (when the club missed out on a GF by 3 points) you can probably extend the Hawthorn 1980s era to cover 1982 - 1991 (with a bookmark where the Hawks made the PF in 1982 and were eliminated 1st week of the finals in 1990).

2011 - 2014 compares favourably with 1982-1985 and 1988-1991...depending on how the Hawks go in 2015 we can extend the comparison out to include 1982-1986 and 1987-1991

Hawthorn 2011 - 2014 vs. Hawthorn 1982 - 1986 vs. Hawthorn 1987 - 1991

Hawthorn 2011 - 2014
2011 - PF (lost to Coll by 3 points) (19/6) (1/2 in finals)
2012 - GF (lost to Syd by 10 points) (19/6) (2/1 in finals)
2013 - Flag (defeated Frem by 15 points) (22/3) (3/0 in finals)
2014 - Flag (defeated Syd by 63 points) (20/5) (3/0 in finals)
2015 - TBC
Total - 2 flags from 3 GF's (80% win/loss, 75% in finals)

Hawthorn 1982 - 1986
1982 - PF (lost to Carl by 31 points) (18/7) (1/2 in finals)
1983 - Flag (defeated Ess by 83 points) (18/7) (3/0 in finals)
1984 - GF (lost to Ess by 24 points) (19/6) (2/1 in finals)
1985 - GF (lost to Ess by 78 points) (17/1/8) (2/2 in finals)
1986 - Flag (defeated Carl by 42 points) (20/5) (2/1 in finals)
Total - 2 flags from 4 GF's (72.83% win/loss, 62.5% in finals)

Hawthorn 1987 - 1991
1987 - GF (lost to Carl by 33 points) (19/7) (1/2 in finals)
1988 - Flag (defeated Melb by 96 points) (21/3) (2/0 in finals)
1989 - Flag (defeated Geel by 6 points) (21/3) (2/0 in finals)
1990 - EF (lost to Melb by 9 points) (14/9) (0/1 in finals)
1991 - Flag (defeated WCE by 53 points) (19/6) (3/0 in finals)
Total - 3 flags from 4 GF's (77.04% win/loss, 72.72% in finals)

Hawthorn 2011/2014 needs to qualify for another GF to surpass 1982-1986 and they need to win another premiership to surpass 1987-1991. Collectively they are a mile off replicating 1982-1991...

That said, 2008-2014 Hawthorn has effectively mirrored 1971-1978 Hawthorn

1971 - 1978 vs 2008 - 2014
1971 21/3 (153.65) 1st, Premiers
1972 13/9 (111.7) 6th
1973 11/11 (109.59) 7th
1974 16/9 (125.39) 3rd, Prelim Final
1975 19/6 (137.35) 1st, Runners Up
1976 19/6 (114.10) 2nd, Premiers
1977 18/7 (133.64) 2nd, Prelim Final
1978 19/6 (117.74) 2nd, Premiers

Compared to...
2008 20/5 (131.85) 2nd, Premiers
2009 9/13 (92.55) 9th
2010 12/1/10 (110.97) 7th, Elim Final
2011 19/6 (144.10) 3rd, Prelim Final
2012 19/6 (154.59) 1st, Runner Up
2013 22/3 (135.72) 1st, Premiers
2014 20/5 (140.78) 2nd, Premiers

1971 - 1978: 3 flags, 4 GF's, 70.466 Win Loss
2008 - 2014: 3 flags, 4 GF's, 71.47 Win Loss

Both eras are basically identical, which makes the comparison to the 70s teams interesting.

In terms of domination I would say that 1971 and 2013 were very similar with 2008 and 2014 matching 1976 and 1978 for season dominance.

 

[Kavliaris69]

But the era didn't completely start and end in the 80's, 83 was 5 years after 78 and 91 was 2 years after 89, so it's probably wrong to say that a 3-peat is better than just constantly winning it every couple of years or so for a very long time. Can't count 2008 and not count 91, probably similar turnover in the teams.

As an individual team 2013-2015 would absolutely be our best if we win it again, considering the low turnover over these few years. Only number that counts is premierships when comparing teams.

Have to count 91 and 08. The core group of players were still together then and now.

 

[TazHawk15]

Been a "cute" little run by the Hawks, but still second to Geelongs efforts in the same period
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...r-than-hawthorns/story-fnjuhrxq-1227074773050
which in turn is a long long way behind the Hawks of the 80s

Yeah na.

Hawks going Back2Back trumps the Cats little run, just ask former captain Harley.

 

[Claude Balls]

Yeah na.

Hawks going Back2Back trumps the Cats little run, just ask former captain Harley.

Trumps it just like that eh? I see a lot of Hawks supporters saying this, but none of them have elaborated as to why. Meanwhile there is a bunch of qualitative material to suggest what the Cats did was in fact more difficult and a rarer feat.

 

[Ordovician]

What a silly question!

No way.

 

[Lethality]

Trumps it just like that eh? I see a lot of Hawks supporters saying this, but none of them have elaborated as to why. .

Because going back2back is a lot harder than not going back2back, which is what Geeong did.

 

[Claude Balls]

Because going back2back is a lot harder than not going back2back, which is what Geeong did.

If Hawthorn had won all 3 in 5 years, including the back to back, then yeah, I'd say that's probably harder. But winning alternate years over 5 (3 flags), including an all time record win/loss ration, is harder than winning 3 in 7 years including one year missing the finals altogether and another in 7th position.

 

[Hawkk]

Hawthorn won 4 flags in 6 years between 1986-1991 (made a further 3 successive GF's and won another flag in the 3 years preceding 1986)

Did that trump Geelong 2007/2011

WTF is Geelong some sort of benchmark for the current Hawthorn side...

 

[floodbuster]

Gotta be the 80's

 

[timtamWB]

I voted if they win 3 in a row, then they would be better.

I was born in 1993, so I obviously wasn't around for the 80's. But from all indications, they were thought of as a dominant team. Essendon 2000 were thought of as a dominant team. Brisbane early 200's, dominant team. Geelong 2007-2011, dominant team.

For whatever reason, I don't think of this era of the Hawks as a dominant team, and I can't really place why. They don't have that same aura around them.

Having said that, their efforts have been remarkable and they are still an elite team in every sense of the word. But I don't think they measure up to the 80's team in terms of the way they will be remembered in years to come.

 

[Elite Master]

Just bumping this thread for those who may not have seen it and want to cast a vote.

 

[MistyAvalon]

Footy changes................. I have never seen the same set plays in this era that we used to see back then. The ball w ould start in the square and s omehow sail from player to player an end up as a goal. I do miss that

 

[Roddy]

I would put them on a par now.

'83-'91: 5 flags from 8 GF appearances in 9 years, including a back to back.

'08-'15: 4 flags from 5 GF appearances in 9 years, including a 3-peat.

Looking at that, it still looks like 83-91 has the edge. But you need to look more deeply at it. More teams and greater equalisation measures make it more difficult to win flags, and the 3-peat lifts the modern Hawks into that stratosphere.