Autopsy/Ranting thread keep it all in here.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

True. Maybe that affected the intensity, maybe not.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

True. Maybe that affected the intensity, maybe not.

which way are you leaning toward?

 

[Tanks_Alot]

We know now that 4 players were injured, and 3 of them were forced to play out 3/4 of the game. Despite this we still almost rolled them in the last. Maybe not quite the disaster the media and other Carlton haters are making it out to be.

Stop trying to make excuses. If rotations were really hurting why is it that we were full of run in the last quarter?

The players admitted themselves as well as our coach that the intensity was lacking.

Poor disposal and lazy efforts were what cost us.

 

[LanceRomance]

Stop trying to make excuses. If rotations were really hurting why is it that we were full of run in the last quarter?

The players admitted themselves as well as our coach that the intensity was lacking.

Poor disposal and lazy efforts were what cost us.

Coaches say a lot of politically correct things at press conferences.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

which way are you leaning toward?

Both in a sense.

The intensity of the players that played on while injured, would probably have been affected. This is turn can force the rest of the team to have to go harder to cover for them. I don't think they did this, but in my opinion if you have a 10% drop off for whatever reason, it becomes infectious.

So yeah the intensity was down, but maybe they allowed themselves a reason for it to be down. They might have a partial alibi but should have done better.

 

[audas]

Both in a sense.

The intensity of the players that played on while injured, would probably have been affected. This is turn can force the rest of the team to have to go harder to cover for them. I don't think they did this, but in my opinion if you have a 10% drop off for whatever reason, it becomes infectious.

So yeah the intensity was down, but maybe they allowed themselves a reason for it to be down. They might have a partial alibi but should have done better.

Jammo, Ratten, Murph - every Carlton player who has been in the media this week has admitted that we were mentally down and the Bombers were more intense - the whole injury fluff people are spreading on this issue like raspberry jam is just a bit too sugary for most of us - got belted.

 

[LanceRomance]

Jammo, Ratten, Murph - every Carlton player who has been in the media this week has admitted that we were mentally down and the Bombers were more intense - the whole injury fluff people are spreading on this issue like raspberry jam is just a bit too sugary for most of us - got belted.

Sugary jam with four injured players?

 

[mediumsizered]

Jammo, Ratten, Murph - every Carlton player who has been in the media this week has admitted that we were mentally down and the Bombers were more intense - the whole injury fluff people are spreading on this issue like raspberry jam is just a bit too sugary for most of us - got belted.

Someone's really down in the dumps. Negativity in every thread you are posting in.

Yes we lost a game we probably should have won, but guess what, even if we do make Top 4, we are going to lose games. Are you going to be like this everytime we have a loss? Some of our losses are going to be the result of being down on intensity. It happens, even to the best teams.

Injuries do play a part in the result of games. A 4 quarter game from Carrazzo, shutting down either Watson or Stanton, may well have seen a different result. You can't underestimate what impact an injury to such an important player can have on players mentally. Particularly when another very good player goes down with an injury shortly afterwards.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Jammo, Ratten, Murph - every Carlton player who has been in the media this week has admitted that we were mentally down and the Bombers were more intense - the whole injury fluff people are spreading on this issue like raspberry jam is just a bit too sugary for most of us - got belted.

As I said, it is possible that a couple of injured players forced to play on, lost some intensity. Then all it takes is a slight drop in intensity from others who can't cover for the former players' drop in intensity and lo and behold, you have an attitude permeating through a team. I didn't say it was okay to lose intensity, just speculating as to how the injuries may have impacted us.

See, I'd like to have hope for next week and beyond. I hope we are still good enough and that last week was an aberration and correctable. At least we will have a fit team tomorrow night so can reset and go again.

You can go on putting your head in your hands lamenting how we are still not good enough and write the season off if you like. You might not be disappointed that way, but it's a tough way to provide support. I prefer to hope we can pull something out, until we are mathematically unable to make the finals or the final siren goes with us trailing in a final. It doesn't affect me any more doin this, than it would had I written us off after round 4.

 

[laminex]

Blind Freddy could see we want to coast thru get a easy win. From the get go all could see we were not switched on at all.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yes, we certainly did look out of touch in those 30 seconds before our first injury. I don't think people realise that there isn't a switch and you only need to have one or two down in intensity for the rest of the team to look off. I guarantee you now that if everybody was down in intensity, we would have been 20 goals down before attempting to fight back late.

 

[Peete]

No doubt structures were pressured with AC out and Laidler on one leg followed by Curnow and Yarron. For my part our inability to counter the pressure on our midfield and in particular all the ball Stanton and Watson enjoyed giving easy over the back ball to their runners was a huge surprise and shock.

McLean is no tagger and Curnow's one leg combined with Laidler openned us up.

Yesterday's game showed that Essendon have plenty of fight and talent - something too many on here discounted before teh game - and maybe Carlton as a team did as well.

Our game is basaed on winning teh contests and gettign teh ball out fast to a fast spread - once that was nullified our defence was pressured and in its weakened state folded.

Thats what shocked a lot of people

Being generous - one could argue that carrying four injuries and a key tagger lost ( let alone AC ability to win his own ball ) made Essendon's task a lot easier.

Q2 saw us get hammered as the team struggled to adapt to the new situation. Q3 (in my book) was more about missed opportunites. Q4 showed that we did adapt and came back strong. However Q2/Q3 also underlined an inability to adapt to changed circumstances fast enough. Allowing Essendon more numbers at the contest cost us dearly - the game underlined a less than top 4 side defensive capability when it was needed.

Some commentators have said Carlton gave up early in the match and harsher critics (again) point to a lack of intensity in adversity. I prefer to think these arguments are wrong and being 4 men down is all you need to know.

Freemantle is a tough challenge - but at least we will have a full bench and the benefit of deconstructing what went wrong and why. The team selections will no doubt reflect our need to bring on a hard tag capability - hopefully a harder approach to every contest as well.

I hope Walker hasn't breen brought back too soon and whoever is given AC's role does a better job than the substitute from last week. If we get bacck to our percentages in the rucks - we shoudl run over them over 4 quarters.

A win over there is vital - 4-1 is a much better position than 3-2.

 

[blue healer]

Blind Freddy could see we want to coast thru get a easy win. From the get go all could see we were not switched on at all.

Interesting that you could see that from the get go when we were in front at quarter time, had lost Carrazzo and had Laidler on one leg.

I would say that there is an argument for a direct correlation between injuries and the result.

I happen to think that we were a little below our optimum intensity level also but I also think the Bombers played out of their skins. One side up on average form the other down frequently results in a boilover.

 

[audas]

As I said, it is possible that a couple of injured players forced to play on, lost some intensity. Then all it takes is a slight drop in intensity from others who can't cover for the former players' drop in intensity and lo and behold, you have an attitude permeating through a team. I didn't say it was okay to lose intensity, just speculating as to how the injuries may have impacted us.

See, I'd like to have hope for next week and beyond. I hope we are still good enough and that last week was an aberration and correctable. At least we will have a fit team tomorrow night so can reset and go again.

You can go on putting your head in your hands lamenting how we are still not good enough and write the season off if you like. You might not be disappointed that way, but it's a tough way to provide support. I prefer to hope we can pull something out, until we are mathematically unable to make the finals or the final siren goes with us trailing in a final. It doesn't affect me any more doin this, than it would had I written us off after round 4.

Someone's really down in the dumps. Negativity in every thread you are posting in.

Yes we lost a game we probably should have won, but guess what, even if we do make Top 4, we are going to lose games. Are you going to be like this everytime we have a loss? Some of our losses are going to be the result of being down on intensity. It happens, even to the best teams.

Injuries do play a part in the result of games. A 4 quarter game from Carrazzo, shutting down either Watson or Stanton, may well have seen a different result. You can't underestimate what impact an injury to such an important player can have on players mentally. Particularly when another very good player goes down with an injury shortly afterwards.

I do not think the season is written off - and I am not down on our team - let me be very, very, clear what my issue is - and its the EXACT SAME issue we are hearing from the club officials, staff and most importantly the coaches. A message that everyone is choosing to simply ignore for some unknown reason - and this is why I am so persistent with it.

There appears to be a genuine attitude amongst the supporters and definitely amongst the players, that we have genuinely made it - and for the most part we have, except for this one issue - and that is our mental ability to see through games when we are genuinely challenged, and this more often than not is by the top clubs. When the gauntlet is thrown down - we lose every single time. Not a one off like Essendon as people are suggesting, but every time.

It is what Ratten has been alluding too all week, it is what Murph admitted to, its THE ISSUE.

So I understand people are claiming we had a drop in intensity, or we had injuries and these are the reasons we lost - but the truth is we come up with a sorry arse excuse every single time.

Geelong it was Warnock being groggy, West Coast it was injuries and umpires, Geelong it was only one point, Bombers was intensity - it doesn't matter - we are always losing these games.

The issue of the footy boots and hair cuts is about the players not getting ahead of themselves - I have no qualms about supporters getting on highs and lows - thats actually our job - to be rabid mongrels - but its not for the players.

I look at other clubs and see a genuine work ethic, Geelong have a very, very deep commitment to the club and team way ahead of themselves - and its abundantly apparent that it is this factor which is required to to be a top team, to go all the way, in reality to even be in the top four.

And it is genuinely missing. You can see it and hear it from the actions of the players - how many players have wanted to leave or be traded over the past few years ? LOTS. Walker, Thornton, Bower, Jacobs etc.

There is clearly a significant tendency amongst the players to think for themselves first - I'm sure there are plenty of self sacrificing fantastic examples like Kruze, Simmo, Army, Murph etc but the reality is that these guys are where they need to be and a lot of blokes aren't - and that right there is the issue.

Our culture should be so incredibly tribal, communal and committed to the group that anyone who enters the zone should be immediately inspired to become a completely selfless, personally sacrificing, devotee to the player group and the club in its struggle for a flag. Our club mottos signify that this is trying to be instilled into the boys - it is needed to be instilled because it is not there, undeniable reality. No Passengers sums this entire issue up completely.

Any player who is not entirely committed to the club and team 100% and is playing for himself for 0% needs to be questioned, brought into the fold or backs should be turned on the treasonous.

The personal glory, the personal spectacles, the individual highlights - the running down the wings, screamers, speccies, snap shots, fluro boots and garrish hair cuts all look great - but they are all about they players. Sorry its true - and it is this which highlights our individualism over our team ethic. It is this which is our mental block. It is this which is causing us to fail against the big challenges. It is this which is why are within 1 point at the end, why we can not rise to cover our injuries, why we are low on intensity. The Essendon game revealed this 100% - bold as brass, clear as day, the nose on your face - I was angry because I was being assured by the club this was dealt with - and its not.

In this area of our game we have not moved on from last year. And it is our biggest Achilles heel, it is exactly what will stop us winning a flag, and fall down at the great challenges.

Football is very much between the ears as we all know, but the reality is most sports are. Its the mental toughness, the steely determination, the inner grit is all from the mental state - and when it comes down the separating the difference between the top three in any competition, no matter what it is, the fitness, skill and capabilities of those three will almost always be very similar - it is then simply where the mind is at. The difference between playing for yourself, and sacrificing yourself for the greater good of the team - is exactly the difference between being a boy and being a man - right there.

If we can overcome the personal glory and individualism rampant in our team right now - then I believe we can go all the way this year - if we can not over come it, we will not win a flag until we do - that simple.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Of course there is but for Crameri to have had 11 scoring shots to yesterdays zero suggests we didn't have a good match-up happening.
Stanton had 36 possessions against us and only 13 yesterday.

We set out to play our own game and it just didn't work on the day.

Crameri took a knock to the hip in the last quarter against you guys which restricted him badly and meant he couldn't compete after a four day back up.

Stanton ran himself into the ground against you guys and couldn't compete after a 4 day back up.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

People that think our injuries cost us live in fairy land. Last year the Bombers lost two running players in the first quarter and still managed to get away with a draw/close finish.

We had more inside 50's people, the problem was the disposal, decision making and lack of effort. Kicking inside forward 50, Robinson just bombing the ball in without looking is one of the reasons. Then there was stupid decision making like Murphy running at 40 out directly in front, instead of taking the shot he tries to short pass to Betts who had Fletcher all over him like a cheap suit.

Waite missing set shots that he shouldn't have. Lucas missing shots. The pressure from the midfield wasn't there defensively. We got the ball into our 50 more often, however, our entries were crap compared to the Bombers who managed about 10 more scoring shots from less entries. We were happy to go one way, but not the other.

Last quarter we had more run and used the ball more effectively then we did for much of the day. If the injuries were really hurting us, then why wasn't that evident in the last quarter when our players should've been dead tired given the "lack" of rotations. Instead we were running all over them.

Too many passengers; Hammer, Lucas, Garlett, Bower (I'll excuse Yarran since he was injured), McLean not up to it, too many hospital handballs and allowing opposition midfielders too much space.

One goal in a half of football in perfect conditions is unacceptable against a team with a very poor defensive structure.

They were too arrogant and didn't pay their opposition any respect. That is why they lost. So I'm looking forward to watching the Blues come out from now on with the same intensity they had against the Pies. Let's see if they have learnt and let's smash the Dockers on Friday and make a statement going forward.

 

[Big Sim]

The personal glory, the personal spectacles, the individual highlights - the running down the wings, screamers, speccies, snap shots, fluro boots and garrish hair cuts all look great - but they are all about they players. Sorry its true - and it is this which highlights our individualism over our team ethic. It is this which is our mental block. It is this which is causing us to fail against the big challenges. It is this which is why are within 1 point at the end, why we can not rise to cover our injuries, why we are low on intensity. The Essendon game revealed this 100% - bold as brass, clear as day, the nose on your face - I was angry because I was being assured by the club this was dealt with - and its not.

In this area of our game we have not moved on from last year. And it is our biggest Achilles heel, it is exactly what will stop us winning a flag, and fall down at the great challenges.

Football is very much between the ears as we all know, but the reality is most sports are. Its the mental toughness, the steely determination, the inner grit is all from the mental state - and when it comes down the separating the difference between the top three in any competition, no matter what it is, the fitness, skill and capabilities of those three will almost always be very similar - it is then simply where the mind is at. The difference between playing for yourself, and sacrificing yourself for the greater good of the team - is exactly the difference between being a boy and being a man - right there.

If we can overcome the personal glory and individualism rampant in our team right now - then I believe we can go all the way this year - if we can not over come it, we will not win a flag until we do - that simple.

Wowee Audas, that was some rant. Sounded a lot like an ANZAC Day vent by an old digger at the RSL after a couple too many scotches lamenting all that is wrong with young people: their haircuts, their flashy clothes, bad attitudes etc "Bring back National Service, that would fix em up."

We performed really well in the first 3 rounds, as a team and with great individual performances as well, both of which are necessary to win flags. So is flair and the boys with the coloured boots that seem to offend your sensibilities have it in quantities that not only make us a pleasure to watch but also turn matches.

Yes we were flat against Essendon. We missed chances and were cruelled by injuries but the bottom line is we were beaten by a better team on the day. It happens. But redemption is always possible next game, so lets all move on to that.

Who in our team has a garish hair cut by the way?

 

[SBYM]

Yes we were flat against Essendon. We missed chances and were cruelled by injuries but the bottom line is we were beaten by a better team on the day. It happens. But redemption is always possible next game, so lets all move on to that.

Flawless. Lock thread immediately.

 

[Peete]

People that think our injuries cost us live in fairy land. Last year the Bombers lost two running players in the first quarter and still managed to get away with a draw/close finish.

True - We had 4 injuries a sub ill suited to teh tagging role which was gone as soon as AC was off..

We had more inside 50's people, the problem was the disposal, decision making and lack of effort. Kicking inside forward 50, Robinson just bombing the ball in without looking is one of the reasons.

True - but ask yourself why it was Robbo who had teh ball so many times and felt so much pressure - we were light on on protection and often got teh ball under pressure - because we had no inside play for 3Q - coaching error/lack of personnell/injuries


Then there was stupid decision making like Murphy running at 40 out directly in front, instead of taking the shot he tries to short pass to Betts who had Fletcher all over him like a cheap suit.

Yes a glaring error

Waite missing set shots that he shouldn't have. Lucas missing shots. The pressure from the midfield wasn't there defensively. We got the ball into our 50 more often, however, our entries were crap compared to the Bombers who managed about 10 more scoring shots from less entries.

Our set shots have been poor all year..


Last quarter we had more run and used the ball more effectively then we did for much of the day. If the injuries were really hurting us, then why wasn't that evident in the last quarter when our players should've been dead tired given the "lack" of rotations. Instead we were running all over them.

The big change was Gibbs going in and some good work from Waite and Betts in crumbing around the goal - they figured out a way to attack.

Too many passengers; Hammer, Lucas, Garlett, Bower (I'll excuse Yarran since he was injured), McLean not up to it, too many hospital handballs and allowing opposition midfielders too much space.

Hammer was missing all day / Lucas hasnt played 4quarters in a game yet ( inexperience) Garlett had no ball and hasnt learned to get hsi own ball, Bower is Bower and Mclean was never meant to play a whole game -as a tagger - not his thing ( whatever his thing is)

One goal in a half of football in perfect conditions is unacceptable against a team with a very poor defensive structure.

Essendon bet that tehir midfield crush would starve us of the ball - Carrazzo/Curnow injuries made that work for them on the day. truth is OUIR defensive structures were just not there - allowing them so many cheap over teh back goals from long racking kicks - was coaching problem.

They were too arrogant and didn't pay their opposition any respect.
That is why they lost.

No one coudl predict 3 one legged players and an early sub

So I'm looking forward to watching the Blues come out from now on with the same intensity they had against the Pies. Let's see if they have learnt and let's smash the Dockers on Friday and make a statement going forward.

Dont read too much in the win againsty an undermanned Collingwood - except what you say regardign intensity levels- we never alloweed them in the game.

Ratten stuck with the pre-game straetgy -as his structures melted down due to pressure and injury - even so - some shocking set shot attempts and really bad kicking at goal ingeneral play made Essendon look a lot better than they should have.

Thsi wek against Freemantle is a tougher test - so many changes in an away game. Lets see how they adapt and play under pressure. A win tommorrow - is 8 points in my book.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Swan ran pretty hard to collect 36 possessions on Saturday only to back it up with 42 yesterday, and he's fat.

it's a good point, but I don't reckon Swan's used as much juice as Stanton this year tbh, last week notwithstanding.

 

[blue healer]

Yes we were flat against Essendon. We missed chances and were cruelled by injuries but the bottom line is we were beaten by a better team on the day. It happens. But redemption is always possible next game, so lets all move on to that.

Agree with this and it's what I have been trying to say all along.

 

[Silvagnis]

Crameri took a knock to the hip in the last quarter against you guys which restricted him badly and meant he couldn't compete after a four day back up.

Stanton ran himself into the ground against you guys and couldn't compete after a 4 day back up.

Collingwood had a four day break too.

Stanton was beaten by Clarke.

Crameri was beaten and didn't get any easy ball with Collingwood applying more defensive pressure than Carlton. No lace out kicks with a paddock in front of Crameri. Brown smashed him in his first game back from a knee injury.

People that think our injuries cost us live in fairy land. Last year the Bombers lost two running players in the first quarter and still managed to get away with a draw/close finish.

So it was equal with Carlton getting nothing from Collins and Henderson who were passengers in that game?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Collingwood had a four day break too.

Stanton was beaten by Clarke.

Crameri was beaten and didn't get any easy ball with Collingwood applying more defensive pressure than Carlton. No lace out kicks with a paddock in front of Crameri. Brown smashed him in his first game back from a knee injury.

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

[Blueboys11]

I don't disagree with any of that.

I think Stantons jig could be up after yesterday.

Put an elite runner on him, who ignores trying to get the ball, but instead stands Stanton when he gambles forward of the ball in contested situations. Thats 80% of his uncontested ball nullified right there, and puts a massive stop to Essendons rebound

Hello an Armfield or a Tuohy to do that job!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I think Stantons jig could be up after yesterday.

Put an elite runner on him, who ignores trying to get the ball, but instead stands Stanton when he gambles forward of the ball in contested situations. Thats 80% of his uncontested ball nullified right there, and puts a massive stop to Essendons rebound

Hello an Armfield or a Tuohy to do that job!

give it a crack!