Bottom 7

[Frodo]

Seems to me that the bottom 7 clubs may well have the bleakest future for next year whilst the top nine all look pretty stong.

Sainters and Eagles can argue that injuries and coaching problems will be behind them and maybe rise a few places but not into the eight.

Freo must be the best bet ever for back to back spoons.

Dogs, cats, Kangas and Dees need some serious repairs to get back on track or they will be joining Freo for extra draft picks next year.

There could be a big gap developing between the top and the bottom!

 

[Frodo]

I just read my own post and had an idea

Sign up another Brissy and Sydney team. Add the Tassie Totempoles and the Canberra cornflakes then make two ten team divisions with promotion and relegation. Then make the Ansett cup into a real knockout cup with the 20 AFL teams, 3 WAFL sides, 3 SANFL sides and 6 VFL sides all in a 32 team draw just like the FA cup. Round1 in May, 2 in June, 3 in July, Semifinal in August and Final after the Premiership Grand final.

 

[Dan26]

Frodo,

It is so hard to predict from one week to the next, I am not game to predict from one season to the next.

In 1997, the eventual premiers, runners-up and third placed teams, finished 12th, 10th, and 15th the previous season.

Who know what will happen in 2002? What makes you think Fremantle will win the spoon again? Why not West Coast, who this year have been the worst performed team in the AFL from a "for-and-against-ratio" point of view, and are going to be faced with the retirement of even more senior players in the coming 12 months (eg Jakovich, Matera next season, maybe.)

This season, Fremantle actually have a better defence than West Coast AND a better attack. One could argue therefore, that despite winning only one game, that they have been more competitive than West Coast, when you look at the entire season as 44 hours of football.

Anyway, getting back to what I was saying, it is impossible to predict the ladder from one season to the next. In 1997, Melbourne won four games and "won" the wooden spoon. The next season, they made the preliminary final.

Anything could happen in 2002.

 

[Fat Red]

WTF is a for and against ratio? Is that the concept formerly known as percentage?

 

[Mr Ripper]

Damn you, Frodo! When I read the header, I thought you meant Richard and Eddie had a new video out!

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Fat Red
WTF is a for and against ratio? Is that the concept formerly known as percentage?

Yes it is.

 

[Fat Red]

Um, OK, any reason you've renamed it?

I agree with you that percentage can sometimes be a better indicator of a team's quality than win/loss, although it's inconsistent with your argument 2 weeks ago that as Carlton are 6th on the ladder they are the 6th best team.

 

[Chilli Afterglow]

Originally posted by Frodo


Then make the Ansett cup into a real knockout cup with the 20 AFL teams, 3 WAFL sides, 3 SANFL sides and 6 VFL sides all in a 32 team draw just like the FA cup. Round1 in May, 2 in June, 3 in July, Semifinal in August and Final after the Premiership Grand final.

This idea has immediate appeal. I quite liked the Escort Cup comp when teams from the VFL, SANFL and WAFL competed. So what it the Vic teams were always stronger - there always existed the chance for the fairytale upset which made for great theatre.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Fat Red
Um, OK, any reason you've renamed it?

Nope, no reason. Why? Not happy with me?

Originally posted by Fat Red
I agree with you that percentage can sometimes be a better indicator of a team's quality than win/loss, although it's inconsistent with your argument 2 weeks ago that as Carlton are 6th on the ladder they are the 6th best team.

I don't think I ever said that the Blues were the 6th best team. I may have said that they only deserved to be 6th on the ladder (because at the time, they hadn't won enough games), but from a for-and-against point of view, Carlton are clearly one of the leading teams, and certainly better than their current 5th position indicates.

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Dan25
Who know what will happen in 2002? What makes you think Fremantle will win the spoon again? Why not West Coast, who this year have been the worst performed team in the AFL from a "for-and-against-ratio" point of view, and are going to be faced with the retirement of even more senior players in the coming 12 months (eg Jakovich, Matera next season, maybe.)

This season, Fremantle actually have a better defence than West Coast AND a better attack. One could argue therefore, that despite winning only one game, that they have been more competitive than West Coast, when you look at the entire season as 44 hours of football.

In reality WCE will struggle and could be spooners next year if faced with a similar injury situation but it is an unlikely scenario. It is true that Kempy has retired but most think Matera has another year in him and both Jako and Macintosh are only 28, one year younger than Buckley. We also have a good crop of 19-23 year olds who will have developped that much more, the injured returned, a better coach and hopefully some good trades.

Percentage is almost identical with the two sides but apart from Clem Michael Freo has nobody to come back and only five or six class players with a lot of duds.

It would surprise me to see Freo off the bottom next year but then again footy is full of surprises.

 

[Fat Red]

Originally posted by Dan25


Nope, no reason. Why? Not happy with me?

Not unhappy. It's just unusual to come up with a new name for a concept that everyone's familiar with and use it without explanation. I think it hinders communication, but thought you might have a reason for doing it that meant you were prepared to sacrifice clarity of communication for some other end.

 

[kuepper]

Originally posted by Frodo
Percentage is almost identical with the two sides but apart from Clem Michael Freo has nobody to come back and only five or six class players with a lot of duds.

Theres a guy called Waterhouse, who was in the top 10 goal kickers last year, who has unfortunately been hampered with a chronic hamstring injuries this year - he alone playing most games would have added another 40 goals on the 'for' side, and he could quite easily been the difference between winning another 5 or so games alone.

As for the call regarding class players and a lot of duds, i'd be taking a long hard look at your playing list - as from where I sit, they are pretty much similar, except you probably have 4 class players, meaning 2 extra 'duds'

 

[ShAdOw]

Originally posted by kuepper


Theres a guy called Waterhouse, who was in the top 10 goal kickers last year, who has unfortunately been hampered with a chronic hamstring injuries this year - he alone playing most games would have added another 40 goals on the 'for' side, and he could quite easily been the difference between winning another 5 or so games alone.

As for the call regarding class players and a lot of duds, i'd be taking a long hard look at your playing list - as from where I sit, they are pretty much similar, except you probably have 4 class players, meaning 2 extra 'duds'

you are so easy to wind up

 

[kuepper]

Originally posted by ShAdOw
you are so easy to wind up [/B]

you think?

Nah not at all, generally I am very easy going - just Ignorant posts get my goat occassionally!

 

[hilly]

Originally posted by Mr Ripper
Damn you, Frodo! When I read the header, I thought you meant Richard and Eddie had a new video out!

Sadly not, Ripper

 

[Waltzing Woof Biscuit]

Originally posted by Chilli Afterglow


This idea has immediate appeal. I quite liked the Escort Cup comp when teams from the VFL, SANFL and WAFL competed. So what it the Vic teams were always stronger - there always existed the chance for the fairytale upset which made for great theatre.

Yes, but then Swan Districts sent over their reserves side and got flogged by Richmond by 200 points. The concept sort of went downhill from there.

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by Mr Ripper
Damn you, Frodo! When I read the header, I thought you meant Richard and Eddie had a new video out!

Last one was Bottom Live 3... pretty crap too Guest House Paradiso was the feature film but that was possibly even worse.

 

[red+black]

Originally posted by Fat Red
Um, OK, any reason you've renamed it?

I agree with you that percentage can sometimes be a better indicator of a team's quality than win/loss, although it's inconsistent with your argument 2 weeks ago that as Carlton are 6th on the ladder they are the 6th best team.

i think if you thought a little harder about what Dan was trying to say then you would understand.

to state percentage alone can be misleading without taking into consideration the actuals points for and against. for most of the year, as indicated by the points for and points against, fremantle have had a stronger offence and a stronger defence, yet just couldn't put the wins on the board.

and to Frodo, in one of the earlier threads i mentioned the twenty team two division comp. probably unpopular, but then so would be culling victorian teams in 5 to 10 years time.

the draw definately needs to be changed. the ansett cup has improved with the group system, although i'd love to know how the groups are decided. how about some transparency Wayne?

the supposed fact that the draw evens out after a few years is bollocks. what is that supposed to prove? that teams are given an equal chance over a number of years. again, bollocks.

 

[Dan26]

Thanks red+black.

 

[GOALden Hawk]

2 of the bottom 7 will make the finals next year, it's always the way. Who they will be I have no idea, but I reckon Melbourne will be one of them.

 

[Colliwobbles]

cant see collingwood making the finals next year...

they have a lot of restructuring to do..to many nothing players