News Brad Crouch to Saints (STK make offer; Band 3, ADL to match?)

[Mego Red]

I don't think it really works this way, though.

Once we choose not to match, the trade is done. We get the compensation pick, they get Brad.

At that point, if they agree to some obviously unbalanced trade that sees us getting a much better result than them, the AFL will know it was part of a deal. And that kind of deal is not above board.

Or, if they turn around and say "yeah nah, we're just going to forget about that trade we promised", what could we do about it? Complain to the AFL that Saint Kilda aren't willing to do the dodgy with us anymore?

Or, the trade is not obviously unbalanced, in which case what is the point?

Why isn't the trade done before we choose to not match? There's more than enough overlap.

 

[cmndstab]

Would be funny if we accept Pick 23 as compo and 10 years from now this kid has had an elite career.

Mods if Im still posting in 10 years time, please shoot me.

The answer to this is always the same. Even if pick 23 turns to be an elite player, there are cheaper ways to get pick 23 than trading out arguably your best midfielder in the prime of his career.

 

[relapse]

Yes. Im more likely to believe in the Crows incompetence, than the Saints low balling us.

We've jiust been way too quiet about it and am now beginning to think that the club have stuffed up and have spent the last couple of days scrambling to come up with some deal to save face.

They most probably can't match because they agreed with the deal the Saints offered before it was lodged.

 

[cmndstab]

Why isn't the trade done before we choose to not match? There's more than enough overlap.

Fair call, that is a possibility.

 

[feenix67]

Why are St Kilda trading in your example? They've no need to give us anything until we've matched. As of right now, Brad is their player.

Because trade week starts before our deadline. So we can say do the pick swap or we match and keep. Saints delay paperwork lodgement to ensure that can happen as a show of good faith.

 

[MRB37]

How incompetent would that be on both clubs' part, given that Band 3 is allegedly the outcome: not even close?

I don't think it's due to incompetence as much as it is the AFL being total pricks and not wanting to give out pick 2. Band 2 or 3 makes no difference to us given we finished last, but it lets the AFL go "see, the compo system is fair and balanced!"

 

[feenix67]

I don't think it really works this way, though.

Once we choose not to match, the trade is done. We get the compensation pick, they get Brad.

At that point, if they agree to some obviously unbalanced trade that sees us getting a much better result than them, the AFL will know it was part of a deal. And that kind of deal is not above board.

Or, if they turn around and say "yeah nah, we're just going to forget about that trade we promised", what could we do about it? Complain to the AFL that Saint Kilda aren't willing to do the dodgy with us anymore?

Or, the trade is not obviously unbalanced, in which case what is the point?

The trade occurs tomorrow morning, we don't match. The trade doesn't occur, we match. Pretty simple, and the ONLY plausible reason why the paperwork was lodged sunday Arvo.

 

[mattymac]

So outline exactly what you think they should have done. You want them to match and keep Brad? You must have been pissed when we told him to explore FA then, right?

The outline goes as follows:

1. Shop him in the hope we're not incompetent bastards who can't organise a desired outcome with his suitors like Essendon did with Brisbane

2. When we say we will match if our desired outcome isn't met, we match. No ifs, no buts, no silent procrastination. We keep our word and put the heat back on them.

It's fcuking simple really.

 

[Mego Red]

Again, I don't think this is how it works. They can't just agree to do a lopsided trade with us in exchange for us accepting their free agency bid. That's textbook draft tampering.

There are examples of trades being done in the past that looked suspicious, because teams then did or didn't make bids.

But they go through. As long as it makes reasonable commercial sense for both parties.

It probably couldn't be pick 32 for pick 17, with nothing else involved.

It certainly could be trading 23 for their first next year, say. That's more even than the trade that GCS and Geelong did just last year.

 

[1970crow]

GWS took 2-3 days to match Geelongs offer, despite it being known they would do so once it was lodged.

Expect GWS we're weighing up how comfortable they were keeping him on those terms if he chose to stay. I'm not convinced we're doing that, we've not really anything to weigh up. We need to match to force a trade, we seem to be blinking for fear of ending up with him. Maybe we match tomorrow, but at evens, my cash is on no match and compo pick here we come.

 

[1970crow]

We trade picks. And don't match.

Why would they do that?

 

[hidden]

Actually the club WOULD now know if he's on his 2nd strike

I was under impression only the Doctor was informed and he has to keep his mouth zipped. If I knew the number of strikes it certainly would affect what I did

 

[Scorpus]

The trade occurs tomorrow morning, we don't match. The trade doesn't occur, we match. Pretty simple, and the ONLY plausible reason why the paperwork was lodged sunday Arvo.

The free agency period ends this Friday. Why didn't they lodge then and give us ages throughout the trade period to work it out?

They're trying to pressure us into scrambling for a low value trade so they get exactly what they want. They didn't lodge on Sunday to do us a favour

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Would be funny if we accept Pick 23 as compo and 10 years from now this kid has had an elite career.

Mods if Im still posting in 10 years time, please shoot me.

It’s not infeasible given you’ve already been posting for 7...

 

[DJ75]

St. Kilda have no need to trade anything of use - and they know it. They might give us a crappy pick and a crappy player so we can try and pour some glitter on the pile of sh!t, but it's still sh!t.

Right now St. Kilda are fully believing we won't match - because our history says exactly that.
That is why it is so important to match. It sets a precedent for all our future trades.

If it means St. Kilda don't trade with us - so be it. F them.

I would then put it on Brad's manager that he is either playing HFF for us for the next 4 years (and has no chance of meeting his incentives), or the manager gets on the phone to every other club to drum up another option. Happy to revisit and trade him at end of 2021 if that's what it takes, but under no circumstances should we fold and accept pick 23. To do so would be to doom the club to another 10 years of clubs calling our bluff.

 

[feenix67]

The outline goes as follows:

1. Shop him in the hope we're not incompetent bastards who can't organise a desired outcome with his suitors like Essendon did with Brisbane

2. When we say we will match if our desired outcome isn't met, we match. No ifs, no buts, no silent procrastination. We keep our word and put the heat back on them.

It's fcuking simple really.

He was shopped, that's what FA is. Saints were the best suitor. That's obvious.

 

[Chase13]

Brad is worth a pick between 10-15 every day of the week, without us giving up anything.

We'll have to give up Brad, his compo pick, and likely another second rounder of ours to get something close to that.


Let us keep him, and tell every club if they want him, to come back with a pick in that range next year.

only thing I can think may work is

take compo 23 then use that trade st kilda

their 17 for our 23 swap our future 3 for their future 4th

draft 1 , 10 , 14 ( wb 20, 32 ) 17.
leave latter picks hately nga

best case scenario I can think of.

 

[Golumless]

Expect GWS we're weighing up how comfortable they were keeping him on those terms if he chose to stay. I'm not convinced we're doing that, we've not really anything to weigh up. We need to match to force a trade, we seem to be blinking for fear of ending up with him. Maybe we match tomorrow, but at evens, my cash is on no match and compo pick here we come.

Bullshit GWS were thinking about it. They indicated a long way out they were matching no matter the cost.

The only difference between their attitude and us is they were absolutely pissed to lose Cameron (as well as others), we seem more indifferent with Brad.

 

[feenix67]

The free agency period ends this Friday. Why didn't they lodge then and give us ages throughout the trade period to work it out?

They're trying to pressure us into scrambling for a low value trade so they get exactly what they want. They didn't lodge on Sunday to do us a favour

You answered your own question. Why did they wait till Sunday? They could have lodged earlier and taken a guaranteed trade off the table.

 

[Crow till I die]

There are examples of trades being done in the past that looked suspicious, because teams then did or didn't make bids.

But they go through. As long as it makes reasonable commercial sense for both parties.

It probably couldn't be pick 32 for pick 17, with nothing else involved.

It certainly could be trading 23 for their first next year, say. That's more even than the trade that GCS and Geelong did just last year.

I still think the one I would push for if we are heading that way is the Atkins pick and our 2021 2nd for their 2021 1st and 3rd. No reason the AFL could not sign off on that and then we take the compo pick so essentially Brad Crouch

5

Brad Crouch

Age

30

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.1

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.3

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.6

5star

upgrades our 2021 2nd to a 2021 1st and the compo pick upgrades out Atkins pick and we get an extra 3rd rounder. The Saints could be banking on us finishing bottom 3 next year meaning if they made finals that it could be less than a 10 spot drop for them next year and they get the extra 2nd this year to pay for Higgins (with maybe some late pick swapping AND they get to keep pick 17

 

[Scorpus]

You answered your own question. Why did they wait till Sunday? They could have lodged earlier and taken a guaranteed trade off the table.

We would have matched because we had no option.

They want to give us the option of doing some garbage last minute trade on the first day of the trade period that massively benefits St Kilda, but not long enough to give us any serious time to work out a good trade in our favor

 

[Murray2503]

Why are St Kilda trading in your example? They've no need to give us anything until we've matched. As of right now, Brad is their player.

The club will match if it"s only pick 23. We would have already indicated that to StK privately. Will likely end up in a 3 way club trade. Saints trade one of their players for massive unders to Collingwood as an example. We then trade Kelly to Collingwood for massive overs. We end up with pick 23 and a late 20's pick which will be traded for 14.

 

[mattymac]

He was shopped, that's what FA is. Saints were the best suitor. That's obvious.

Lol you completely disregarded the part about matching and keeping our word that didn't fit your narrative

 

[CrowMan90]

Our club may pull a rabbit out of the hat tomorrow and somehow we get something that doesn't resemble a s**t sandwich. However, Ive got this sinking feeling that our club has screwed something up here and backed themselves into a corner where they cant get out from. Perhaps it our past mistakes that make me feel like this, but who knows.

 

[Mego Red]

Why would they do that?

We're clearly going back and forth on whether to match or not.

They do a trade with us that gives us a bit more value (but doesn't involve them giving up as much as they would need to if we matched) could be enough to convince us that not matching is the right decision.