Opinion Brian Cook - Carlton's rebuild still has a fair way to go

[Arr0w]

That's just natural development though ?



This was the type of answer I was after Arr0w. Great response Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods


I hope you are right, Essendon had very similar questions last year with similar players. We lucked out with so much going right that saw us well and truly exceed expectation.

Surely you don't need that type of response, when you can assess any club's list/circumstances as to their possible output

Did you not analyze and or consider these factors when stating, concluding we wouldn't win more than 10 games

 

[Yoda_]

Did you not analyze and or consider these factors when stating, concluding we wouldn't win more than 10 games

You can probably give up this hyperbolic response because I never stated they wouldn't win more than 10 games. Happy for you to go and show me the comment I apparently made this ludicrous comment in.


I asked you multiple times why it could be Carlton and it took a fellow Carlton supporter one / two posts to answer my question that I posed to you several times.

 

[Arr0w]

You can probably give up this hyperbolic response because I never stated they wouldn't win more than 10 games. Happy for you to go and show me the comment I apparently made this ludicrous comment in.


I asked you multiple times why it could be Carlton and it took a fellow Carlton supporter one / two posts to answer my question that I posed to you several times.

Well given you made finals with 11 wins and predicted we wouldn't make finals, that would leave us at around 10 wins, no?

Making this prediction would suggest you did some type of analysis, would it not

Then someone has to point out the obvious, as to why a side in our position could improve their output

Staggering

 

[Great8]

I haven’t got either of us making finals. Reckon we will both miss by a game or two

 

[Yoda_]

Well given you made finals with 11 wins and predicted we wouldn't make finals, that would leave us at around 10 wins, no?

Making this prediction would suggest you did some type of analysis, would it not

Then someone has to point out the obvious, as to why a side in our position could improve their output

Staggering

Is this one of those 'tell us you don't know what you're talking about without telling us you don't know what your talking about' moments?

I feel it's best I don't give you the benefit of the doubt anymore, even after giving evidence of the sort of discussion I was hoping for, it's still gone back to deviating and into hyperbole.

 

[Arr0w]

Is this one of those 'tell us you don't know what you're talking about without telling us you don't know what your talking about' moments?

I feel it's best I don't give you the benefit of the doubt anymore, even after giving evidence of the sort of discussion I was hoping for, it's still gone back to deviating and into hyperbole.

Depends if you need someone to hold your hand, which is still surprising after predicting an outcome

"Can't see said side winning x amount of games given certain circumstances" Then, "thanks for pointing that out, I wasn't aware of the bleeding obvious"

Stay staunch with your predictions, especially when you have analyzed the situation

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

That's just natural development though ?

Could be seen that way, but when a team has been seen to be lacking in natural development for a number of years, it's obviously still an avenue for improvement.
You asked where the improvement comes from, not to categorise the different types of improvement.
I know that you're trying to suggest that every team will have natural development, but that's simply not true.
Some teams will have it, while some will stagnate and others will regress.
Some might get that natural development from the younger players but regress in other areas, which leads to stagnation as a whole.
Ideally you'll probably want a few of those things to go right. Not necessarily all of the players, but a few players from each category, with some coaching and structural improvements.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

meh... imo a pity my mob did not excise a few more.

Thankfully we only gave a one year extension to the jpk dino. Carlton gave six to Cripps and agreed to draft Cripps Minor.

One is 33. The other is 26. What a daft statement.

Quite possibly the dumbest comparison I've seen on here, and that's saying something.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Heading into the new season, I rate the depth of the Dons' list over the Blues. Neither will prove much chop, but that is ok.

The Dons' young players are way ahead of the Blues youngsters. After years of SOS trade profligacy and draft stupidity, a big purge is required at Carlton. The Bombers' list is better placed with even Dodo being able to pin the tail on the draft donkey and eschew buying their way into relevance.

You just keep finding different (barely) ways of saying the same thing and always find a way to get a SOS dig in.

 

[boncer34]

Contract tenure and the amount of money over that period are 2 different beasts, plus JPK is considerably older

Josh Cripps is only a train on player at this stage

Mid? Does he play like his brother?

 

[WilloTree]

Mid? Does he play like his brother?

They're basically opposites. Josh is a KPP/Ruck (199cms)

 

[Shinboner1]

Although I don't really rate either list outside of their respective 3-4 stars I reckon essendon is better overall. Their young kids seem to have had a bigger impact and they don't rely on their beefy mids to carry the side over the line like the blues have with cripps and now walsh. Although essendon has just made finals I'd say both are still in the development stage and could easily make 8th as quickly as they can make 12/13th on the ladder with a few bad games under their belt.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

One is 33. The other is 26. What a daft statement.

Quite possibly the dumbest comparison I've seen on here, and that's saying something.

Because they are both dinosaurs, numbskull. The Bloods are stuck with jpk for this year, Carlton are stuck with Cripps for 6.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

You just keep finding different (barely) ways of saying the same thing and always find a way to get a SOS dig in.

worse than Dodo.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Because they are both dinosaurs, numbskull. The Bloods are stuck with jpk for this year, Carlton are stuck with Cripps for 6.

When you make idiotic statements, it's always best to double down. You go girlfriend!

You gave a contract to a 33yo and are stuck with him until he's 34.
We gave a 26yo top 5 player at the club a 6 year deal and are 'stuck' with him during what should be his peak years, until he's 32. If we then go and give him another contract after that, it might be comparable, but that will depend on his output at the time and his position in the team.

Leave the hyperbole out of it. You're better than that (or can be).

 

[Benga]

Because they are both dinosaurs, numbskull. The Bloods are stuck with jpk for this year, Carlton are stuck with Cripps for 6.

Oh no, stuck with our dual AA, captain and as recently as 2019, top 5 player in the game.
Oh well, I guess since he’s been paying injured under a coach he didn’t get on with, it must mean that that form will 100% continue. We all know that’s how it works don’t we?

what a moron

 

[Milanista28]

Like most of us good people I'd like to see Carlton fail again, only reason I could stomach them being ok is Sam Docherty

15

Sam Docherty

Age

30

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.3

5star

K

15.1

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.1

3star

D

22.6

5star

K

16.0

5star

HB

6.6

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

0.6

1star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

deserves it.

 

[WilloTree]

top 5 player in the game

Is this a thing now?

According to BF there are 4,682 'top 5 player in the game' dudes all running around wearing capes.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Oh no, stuck with our dual AA, captain and as recently as 2019, top 5 player in the game.
Oh well, I guess since he’s been paying injured under a coach he didn’t get on with, it must mean that that form will 100% continue. We all know that’s how it works don’t we?

what a moron

Transition is vital. Players who cannot apply defensive pressure and run or provide reliable skilled links in possession chains have limited value.

 

[Benga]

Is this a thing now?

According to BF there are 4,682 'top 5 player in the game' dudes all running around wearing capes.

Back to back AA, back to back top 5 finishes in the Brownlow, 2019 afcpa award. He was there abouts come the end on the 2019, depends on who you ask I guess.

It’s all a bit arbitrary really, whether he was top 5 or top 10, everyone’s going to have a slightly different opinion. The original point remains the same.

i find it odd that out of everything said in the last few posts, that’s the part you have an issue with. Each to their own I guess

 

[Arr0w]

Transition is vital. Players who cannot apply defensive pressure and run or provide reliable skilled links in possession chains have limited value.

Not sure why you are basing this on recent output and not too long ago the same things were said about Wines. Cripps averaged the same amount of tackles, more 1%ers and 1 less pressure act, compared Wines this year

Players really are viewed differently based on their side's output

Perhaps a gameplan that allows players to share the ball more would also increase disposals as a whole and for the individual too

 

[Benga]

Transition is vital. Players who cannot apply defensive pressure and run or provide reliable skilled links in possession chains have limited value.

I guess the bloke who gets his hands to it first in that “possession chain” doesn’t count as a link in your eyes then.

Anyone who judges a player who is clearly playing injured or off the back of an interrupted preseason is a fool imo. That goes for any player at any club.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I see players like Nic Nat, Cripps and JPK as increasingly as NFL specialist teams players. Sure, chuck them in at centre bounces but get them off asap as they are not great in general play.

Personally I hope Cripps can get back to health. I enjoyed watching his period of dominance.

But really Carlton took a big punt with his his contract. If the Blues are to improve, I expect a healthy Cripps to be a minor player.

 

[Arr0w]

I see players like Nic Nat, Cripps and JPK as increasingly as NFL specialist teams players. Sure, chuck them in at centre bounces but get them off asap as they are not great in general play.

Personally I hope Cripps can get back to health. I enjoyed watching his period of dominance.

But really Carlton took a big punt with his his contract. If the Blues are to improve, I expect a healthy Cripps to be a minor player.

Neither will have to align for us to improve

 

[Ambrosia]

I think the biggest hurdle for both sides improving next year is that the overall competition should be stronger especially around the middle part of the ladder. (assuming covid doesn’t impact the season)

- Sydney and GWS will get their home ground back and keep adding top end talent via academies

- Essendon, Carlton, StKilda, Freo and Hawthorn will all be expecting to improve just based on list demographics

- Richmond will likely see 2022 as their last real chance at challenging the top of the ladder while Martin is still a force.

2021 saw a clear gap between the top 6/7 sides and the rest of the league. Next year I think it’s feasible that the middle 6 teams are significantly stronger