Can we beat Sydney next year?

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I doubt Sydney make the top 4 and I even more strongly doubt they go back to back.

Tippett isn't exactly a top 10 league key forward so I'm not seeing Sydney as anything better than their usual top 8, probable top 6 type self they have always been.

They have lost depth. O'Keefe and Goodes are getting no younger. Mumford is breaking down. Jude Bolton out likely for the season. Tom Mitchell will come through this year into that midfield and help, Dean Towers probably finds a role off a back flank and Tim Membrey I think will with time develop into something but I don't see them as even a premiership contender next season with other clubs to pass them by.

No doubt I'll get shot down as being biased (I'm not actually a Hawthorn supporter) but I think this view is outdated and quite ignorant. Winning 2 flags in 7 years makes it hard to take the "Usual top 6-8 type self" comment seriously at all. If you want to down play that sort of success, you must really hate Collingwood's two bites at the cherry flag against St. Kilda (Collingwood were a serious force then, just making a comparison).

Fair enough in regards to Goodes and O'Keefe, we don't rely on them as heavily as we used to but they did impact the grand final significantly. I don't see them slowing down much next year, especially ROK. Mumford, however is not breaking down and Jude beat his best time trial from last preseason so he's looking as good as ever.

The likes of Hannebery, Jetta, Jack, Johnson, Reid etc have more improvement to come and McVeigh had his best season in a long time and he'll only be 28 in 2013.

While you're obviously entitled to your opinion and this is your board, I just hate reading stuff like what you typed and not seeing it get challenged at all. Dismiss our chances and you could end up looking really silly.

 

[Knightmare]

No doubt I'll get shot down as being biased (I'm not actually a Hawthorn supporter) but I think this view is outdated and quite ignorant. Winning 2 flags in 7 years makes it hard to take the "Usual top 6-8 type self" comment seriously at all. If you want to down play that sort of success, you must really hate Collingwood's two bites at the cherry flag against St. Kilda (Collingwood were a serious force then, just making a comparison).

Fair enough in regards to Goodes and O'Keefe, we don't rely on them as heavily as we used to but they did impact the grand final significantly. I don't see them slowing down much next year, especially ROK. Mumford, however is not breaking down and Jude beat his best time trial from last preseason so he's looking as good as ever.

The likes of Hannebery, Jetta, Jack, Johnson, Reid etc have more improvement to come and McVeigh had his best season in a long time and he'll only be 28 in 2013.

While you're obviously entitled to your opinion and this is your board, I just hate reading stuff like what you typed and not seeing it get challenged at all. Dismiss our chances and you could end up looking really silly.

Mumford misses games every season. He's never played more than 21 games in a season (including finals). His durability is horrible for a ruckman. I'm not as confident in him as you are, though when out on the field I don't doubt his ability and he is without question one of those more competitive ruckman.

Bolton played through the finals with a damaged PCL then a partically torn ACL. I can only assume he is out for the season to have surgery or if he does then I can only imagine he gets injured in a hurry next season and doesn't play out of whole year.

That whole Sydney team come the end of the season was exceptionally banged up so recovering for next season and being fully healthy will be a challenge.

Sydney are as good as anyone at extending playing careers and Goodes and O'Keefe will both still most likely be productive but I can only imagine their productions are on the relative slide and same with Rhyce Shaw then Malceski who could break down at any time.

I also feel other teams have added more this offseason. The Sydney depth is much weaker with the offseason subtractions while Essendon have added Goddard, Daniher then will have a healthy team which they lacked last season, Carlton will be healthy this season and with Murphy back for a whole season will be much stronger, Adelaide while losing Tippett have added Brad Crouch who is fantastic, Geelong added McIntosh, Caddy, Rivers who will all be major difference makers, Hawthorn added Lake, Collingwood added Lynch, Young, Russell, Fremantle added Pearce. West Coast through natural improvement will be incredible next year and the midfield could be a touch better with Wellingham. I see other teams catching up in a hurry.

I don't think it is straightforward that Sydney finish top 4 at all.

The Sydney season felt very out of the box and in a year where that top end was even with only the one clear standout (Hawthorn) I think the dynamic in 2013 will be much different with a much more even and deeper top end of the ladder.

Winning a premiership in one year doesn't mean automatic success next year. Look at Hawthorn after they won the 08 premiership can tell you all about that and St Kilda after those grand finals declined in a hurry.

I'm not buying Sydney as that premiership contender at all for next year and would be just as surprised as this season if Sydney went all the way again next year as much as I respect their program with the strong culture they have, the great leaders they have, their ability to get the most out of their players and their ability to extend the careers of their players and keep their list healthy. Last year in my mind still was an outlier in my mind and Sydney despite the premiership last year were not the strongest team last year with Hawthorn badly choking in those last two finals playing unusually poor football relatively to the dominant way they played through the season.

 

[Blood Bath]

All I can say is, thanks for providing the lulz on this hot, boring saturday afternoon.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I won't get into any long-winded discussions, as it'll be an argument that will never end, but how can you say Bolton will be out for the season when he just bestest his time trial from last preseason? He's fine and he's running.

 

[Knightmare]

I won't get into any long-winded discussions, as it'll be an argument that will never end, but how can you say Bolton will be out for the season when he just bestest his time trial from last preseason? He's fine and he's running.

That's really surprising considering the reports I was hearing+reading during the finals, I assumed he would be out for the season. Just checking the Sydney website and you are correct. Really bizarre that he is even training let alone setting PBs.

I might just have to re-evaluate my positioning for Sydney then as I do rate Bolton a big part of that potential for success as one of those vital parts to that midfield.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

Still don't rate them despite their grand final win. Hawthorn were the best team for the majority of the year and will likely be next year. We played Sydney twice last year for one win each. It took them seven years to beat us, where was the blood's culture during this period? Or does it only surface after a grand final win? Anyway, our focus should be on beating Hawthorn, as they are the benchmark.

 

[Bonuspoints]

I think we're in one of those really great periods of footy where the difference between finals team isn't the huge gulf it has been in the past. In recent years we typically knew who would make the top 4 as they were a clear level above the comp and even then you could typically pick the grandfinalists who had a gap on the other two. I'm expecting 2013 to be a lot like this year in that its gunna be a tight contest with the healthiest team likely to come out on top. I can't see why the Swans can't go back to back, but I could equally see the Pies, Dawks, WEagles and Crows being premiers. I'm not sure what we'll get from the Bombers, Blues, Dockers, North and Tigers in 2013, but I see them as being potential finalists capable of pinching a flag with a good dose of luck. They're the wildcard teams that are going to make it a really cracking season.

As for can we beat Sydney in 2013. For sure. We still have the firepower to get it done. The question is can we get it on the park fit and firing to take on the premiers of 2012.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Never thought i would see a thread like this on the Collingwood forum

Mick certainly worked us out hoping that doesnt translate to Carlton

 

[jonbe54]

Never thought i would see a thread like this on the Collingwood forum

Mick certainly worked us out hoping that doesnt translate to Carlton

Lol you certainly have a Mick fixation.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

That's really surprising considering the reports I was hearing+reading during the finals, I assumed he would be out for the season. Just checking the Sydney website and you are correct. Really bizarre that he is even training let alone setting PBs.

I might just have to re-evaluate my positioning for Sydney then as I do rate Bolton a big part of that potential for success as one of those vital parts to that midfield.

It surprised me, too. He's a beast, love those types at a football club.

Despite disagreeing with most of your thoughts on Sydney, I appreciate the way you reply respectfully without resorting to cheap comebacks.

Kudos.

 

[Knightmare]

It surprised me, too. He's a beast, love those types at a football club.

Despite disagreeing with most of your thoughts on Sydney, I appreciate the way you reply respectfully without resorting to cheap comebacks.

Kudos.

Losing Bolton for Sydney feels a bit like Collingwood losing Ball. It's just something I felt might set Sydney back some places as one of those key players and that was a large reason for my rating of Sydney what considering last year being a premiership year could understandable be considered unreasonably low.

With Bolton Sydney are absolutely a top 4 chance but with a really solid probably top 9, maybe top 11 even this year it's all really open season and any number of teams if they get things right could finish anywhere.

I'm still favouring West Coast and Hawthorn as the likely premiers. A healthy West Coast with LeCras, Kennedy, Embley, Nicoski and Dick healthy I think have the ability to do some major damage with that young core group likely to continue to take steps forward.

Then Hawthorn with Lake filling that major deficiency will be an incredibly tough team to beat and that other genuine likely premiership chance as that dominant team this year.

It's going to make for interesting viewing in any case.

 

[lozza63]

To me the key to Sydney was and is their underrated defence - tough and frugal the previously little known "no-names" such as the likes of Alex Johnson and Nick Smith just blend so well with the better known Grundy, Richards, Mattner and Malceski.

The proof is in the pudding guys - Sydney are a strong relentless running side full of hard edged mids who selflessly run back to aid their backs - O'Keefe was simply stunning in that role this year - not only "doing a job" - but hurting sides the other way.

To me their main weakness is up forward - and this could soon change.

Now providing their backline stays healthy they should remain top 4 imo - i must add that i did not rate Sydney's a top six aspirant at the start of this year - yet i have always respected their work rate and team first culture.

 

[Lockyer24]

Of course we can. We have just a talented core as they do, perhaps better.
However their match winners had a lot more spark than us in 2012 and their middle rung had great seasons. They really surpassed us in "X Factor" where we held it over them for years.
We aren't far off them but it won't be easy knocking them off.

 

[Markfs]

no..next question

 

[KissStephanie]

Is this a joke? Well done to Sydney on winning the premiership, and I'm glad they beat Hawthorn in the Grand Final, but it wasn't as if they looked like some indestructible footy force during the finals. Two of those wins against Adelaide and Hawthorn were when the opposition had the footy inside-50 more often.

Their game plan worked because they seemed to be the hungriest team of this years top-4 and their injuries were manageable during the season. They still rely on quite a few 29 year olds and older and I don't think they'll be top-2 next year. I think Collingwood and West Coast will be. Hawthorn and Sydney to fight for third and fourth.

 

[Knightmare]

To me the key to Sydney was and is their underrated defence - tough and frugal the previously little known "no-names" such as the likes of Alex Johnson and Nick Smith just blend so well with the better known Grundy, Richards, Mattner and Malceski.

Alex Johnson and Nick Smith are both excellent calls and just by bringing up their names I can tell you watch footy.

Nick Smith is essentially Sydney's Alan Toovey. His shutdown game is absolutely first class as that small/medium defender, he might not be able to play tall as Toovey can when required but is otherwise every bit as good.

Johnson as a young key defender is a beauty and down the track I could see him developing into an All Australian the way he has improved. Just so impressive for a young tall settling in so quickly. I rated his finals series very highly and I expect he has a big future.

 

[loki04]

So a team who bet us once in 12 starts after we had a s**t load of injuries and were badly out of sorts mentally due to the Jmac tragedy suddenly is now a feared side of ours?

Not only will we beat the Swans next year but we will smash the comp as a whole that is how confident I am and how well we have addressed some glaring needs of the side.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Wouldn't mind revisiting this thread now to see how people feel about the Swans or perhaps a re-title to 'Can we beat Sydney Cola next year?'

Now that the Swans have morphed into the Real Madrid/Galactica of the AFL, I'm worried we are looking at a new super team well be unable to catch.

 

[Knightmare]

Wouldn't mind revisiting this thread now to see how people feel about the Swans or perhaps a re-title to 'Can we beat Sydney Cola next year?'

Now that the Swans have morphed into the Real Madrid/Galactica of the AFL, I'm worried we are looking at a new super team well be unable to catch.

Getting Tippett AND Franklin changed the equation.

Then Perris, Heeney, Davis and Mills through the academy and Dunkley as a F/S selection next year and Sydney will have no issues remaining in contention with their competition best midfield and competition best combination of key forwards.

They'll be hanging around the next 5 years no problem. Probably longer with the way the academy system will continue to get them further draft day bargains.

The way I see it the carnage is only just starting and will only get worse.

It will take special performances from any clubs who want to knock off Sydney in a final along with Gold Coast and GWS when eventually established.

 

[PP34]

Good luck guys. They're a bunch of cheats.

If only all of us had an academy and an extra 9.8 percent!

 

[Knightmare]

Good luck guys. They're a bunch of cheats.

If only all of us had an academy and an extra 9.8 percent!

Has a bit of a Miami Heat with LeBron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh feel to it doesn't it?

Within the rules the AFL outline. But not in the spirit of the game.

Sydney to their credit have capitalised but from an equalisation standpoint it's some nice ideas poorly executed.

 

[danielnajdek]

But but but they didn't use their extra cap space to sign up Buddy

I say good luck to any team in the next few years at beating Sydney,GC and GWS to a premiership.

 

[PP34]

Has a bit of a Miami Heat with LeBron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh feel to it doesn't it?

Within the rules the AFL outline. But not in the spirit of the game.

Sydney to their credit have capitalised but from an equalisation standpoint it's some nice ideas poorly executed.

Yeah I guess. But even the Miami Heat didn't have a separate set of rules.

Teams like us (although you're in a better spot) are going to attempt to jump up the ladder against ridiculously deep teams with barely a weakness on the field. Fun times ahead. Free agency may help soften the blow somewhat.

 

[Robroy22]

Long as they're players all have two arms and two legs we can beat them....."if it bleeds....we can kill it"

 

[Temploar]

Proof that money can buy happiness.