Carlton's list

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If Murphy and Gibbs are at the same level as Thomas then the Blues are in worse trouble than I thought.

 

[carl m]

If Murphy and Gibbs are at the same level as Thomas then the Blues are in worse trouble than I thought.

They should enter all 3 of them in a downhill skiing competition then they'd all be in the same level

 

[Fadge]

No, Carlton were not crying out of Key Defenders. Not sure where you got this idea. Yes, Carlton were crying out for quality KPF's, but I'm a bit confused by your comment; could you please tell me who we overlooked in this category in going after Thomas? Carlton were also crying out for class in the midfield, which is why Thomas was recruited. As for him being a washed up mid, it never ceases to astonish me how many chook brains there are on BF. It's like they're fund managers bound by the demands of an annual return. Player stocks drop on poor form and rise on good form every season, while the quality of player seems never to come into it.

In assessing stocks, there's no way I'm buying anything that's dropped 10% each year for the past three years despite what they've delivered prior...

 

[Klaus]

No, Carlton were not crying out of Key Defenders. Not sure where you got this idea. Yes, Carlton were crying out for quality KPF's, but I'm a bit confused by your comment; could you please tell me who we overlooked in this category in going after Thomas? Carlton were also crying out for class in the midfield, which is why Thomas was recruited. As for him being a washed up mid, it never ceases to astonish me how many chook brains there are on BF. It's like they're fund managers bound by the demands of an annual return. Player stocks drop on poor form and rise on good form every season, while the quality of player seems never to come into it.

You overlooked every KPF, because you put all your eggs into Thomas and had nothing left to offer any other player. If you honestly think Simon White, Sam Rowe and an aging Michael Jamison are going to take you to your next flag, you're seriously deluded. Your defence is ordinary, we carve you up every time.

The writing was on the wall with Daisy. Collingwood were happy to let him go as they were aware his best football was behind him and weren't stupid enough to pay him the money he wanted. Your pathetic club on the other hand were dumb enough to waste all of your free-agent cash on him, and he's never looked worse.

 

[Old Dark Blues]

It's A grade or potential A grade. I wouldn't say Yarran is A Grade right now either, but he has that potential. Simpson for me is one of those on the fringe of his rating. Walker's not in great form, but I'm not chasing formlines. Same with Garlett. He's a shocker right now, but it's no secret his got offield troubles and when it comes to what he's capable of, surely he gets some credit for previous seasons.

Uuumm - I'm a dedicated Blues supporter - and your assessment is ridiculous.

Rate the list. Not on potential, what's the point in that ? Rate on them right now. Here you go.




A
Elite players who are the best of the best (Buddy, Selwood, Abblet etc)

NO ONE.

B
Recognized stars who would take the position of anyone at another club in their position or equal to.
(Hodge, Jobe, Roughy etc)

Gibbs
Judd (current form and age)


C

Good players, list fillers, who would get a gig in many other sides in the comp

Murphy
Menzel
Thomas
Yarran
Kreuzer
Jamison
Henderson
Simpson
Walker
Warnock
Casboult
Curnow
Everitt
Garlett
Docherty




D
Peripheral players - time may change that - but RIGHT NOW

Graham
Carrazzo
Buckley
Tuohy
White
McInnes




And there is the problem.

We do not have any out right super stars - Judd once was in that A grade category, Murphy once was as well, and Gibbs might get there - but right now - absolutely not - hence why we are almost last.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Uuumm - I'm a dedicated Blues supporter - and your assessment is ridiculous.

Rate the list. Not on potential, what's the point in that ? Rate on them right now. Here you go.




A
Elite players who are the best of the best (Buddy, Selwood, Abblet etc)

NO ONE.

B
Recognized stars who would take the position of anyone at another club in their position or equal to.
(Hodge, Jobe, Roughy etc)

Gibbs
Judd (current form and age)


C

Good players, list fillers, who would get a gig in many other sides in the comp

Murphy
Menzel
Thomas
Yarran
Kreuzer
Jamison
Henderson
Simpson
Walker
Warnock
Casboult
Curnow
Everitt
Garlett
Docherty




D
Peripheral players - time may change that - but RIGHT NOW

Graham
Carrazzo
Buckley
Tuohy
White
McInnes




And there is the problem.

We do not have any out right super stars - Judd once was in that A grade category, Murphy once was as well, and Gibbs might get there - but right now - absolutely not - hence why we are almost last.

there's some truth to what you say but come on! . if hodge and roughy aren't a-graders then hawthorn have no a-graders.

 

[master bate]

Uuumm - I'm a dedicated Blues supporter - and your assessment is ridiculous.

Rate the list. Not on potential, what's the point in that ? Rate on them right now. Here you go.




A
Elite players who are the best of the best (Buddy, Selwood, Abblet etc)

NO ONE.

B
Recognized stars who would take the position of anyone at another club in their position or equal to.
(Hodge, Jobe, Roughy etc)

Gibbs
Judd (current form and age)


C

Good players, list fillers, who would get a gig in many other sides in the comp

Murphy
Menzel
Thomas
Yarran
Kreuzer
Jamison
Henderson
Simpson
Walker
Warnock
Casboult
Curnow
Everitt
Garlett
Docherty




D
Peripheral players - time may change that - but RIGHT NOW

Graham
Carrazzo
Buckley
Tuohy
White
McInnes




And there is the problem.

We do not have any out right super stars - Judd once was in that A grade category, Murphy once was as well, and Gibbs might get there - but right now - absolutely not - hence why we are almost last.

I hope you aren't a teacher they are some soul destroying grades!

I'd say there is a fair gap between elite, stars and then C grade good players.

Maybe you should re do your grading with
A+ - superstars: No one
A - top quality: Gibbs, ?Judd
B - Above average: Murphy, Henderson etc
C - Good ordinary player: Everitt, Thomas, Casboult types.

I'm not on the Murphy bandwagon at all but the guy deserves to be ranked a bit higher than guys like Garlett and Docherty.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Uuumm - I'm a dedicated Blues supporter - and your assessment is ridiculous.

Rate the list. Not on potential, what's the point in that ? Rate on them right now. Here you go.




A
Elite players who are the best of the best (Buddy, Selwood, Abblet etc)

NO ONE.

B
Recognized stars who would take the position of anyone at another club in their position or equal to.
(Hodge, Jobe, Roughy etc)

Gibbs
Judd (current form and age)


C

Good players, list fillers, who would get a gig in many other sides in the comp

Murphy
Menzel
Thomas
Yarran
Kreuzer
Jamison
Henderson
Simpson
Walker
Warnock
Casboult
Curnow
Everitt
Garlett
Docherty




D
Peripheral players - time may change that - but RIGHT NOW

Graham
Carrazzo
Buckley
Tuohy
White
McInnes




And there is the problem.

We do not have any out right super stars - Judd once was in that A grade category, Murphy once was as well, and Gibbs might get there - but right now - absolutely not - hence why we are almost last.

MK was basing his marking on the same scale that had Alex Rance as an A grader

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

I hope you aren't a teacher they are some soul destroying grades!

I'd say there is a fair gap between elite, stars and then C grade good players.

Maybe you should re do your grading with
A+ - superstars: No one
A - top quality: Gibbs, ?Judd
B - Above average: Murphy, Henderson etc
C - Good ordinary player: Everitt, Thomas, Casboult types.

I'm not on the Murphy bandwagon at all but the guy deserves to be ranked a bit higher than guys like Garlett and Docherty.

Muprhy is an A-grader when he doesn't get tagged. and all but the very very best midfielders are like that.

 

[master bate]

And there is the problem.

We do not have any out right super stars - Judd once was in that A grade category, Murphy once was as well, and Gibbs might get there - but right now - absolutely not - hence why we are almost last.

It's really not. North don't have any of the stars of the comp and they are 8-6. Essendon 7-7 with Watson injured/out of form, Goddard has been great but not next level great. West Coast 6-8 with Josh Kennedy or Priddis their best. Bulldogs 5-9 with Griffen injured all year and Libba hasn't stepped up to anything near where you class the A grade category.

Yes it would be nice to have a superstar. But win enough games and your best player usually just gets anointed. It's more important to have a mix of B+ or higher players and then to make sure the B and C graders in the team can win their matchups.

A better player than Murphy or Gibbs would sure help, but getting 2 more Murphy and Gibbs types would do wonders. Same with KPP don't necessarily need a better player than Henderson, just if you had another 2 Henderson level KPP's that would be enough.

Your recent performances against some of the better sides have shown you aren't losing due to a completely lack of top end talent you. It's the future levels of improvement in Carlton's list that is the worrying thing.

 

[master bate]

Muprhy is an A-grader when he doesn't get tagged. and all but the very very best midfielders are like that.

I agree he's closer to an A than a C that's for sure. He's had a rough start to the year but then found some better form. I'm probably just waiting to see how he finishes off the year to make sure he's an A grader again.

But as I said it's kids who can show something and mature players who are dependable that is Carlton's main problem. Worry about just where Murphy has taken his game at some other time.

 

[Fadge]

A better player than Murphy or Gibbs would sure help.

Didn't Carlton pick him up as a free agent at the end of last year?

 

[Ambrosia]

A graders or potential A graders
Murphy
Gibbs
Menzel
Thomas
Yarran
Kreuzer

B+ or potential B+
Henderson
Simpson
Walker
Jamison
Docherty
Garlett

B graders or potential B graders
Graham
Carrazzo
Buckley
Tuohy

C+ or potential C+
White
Curnow
Everitt
McInnes
Warnock
Casboult

Others
A couple of prospective young guys like Johnson, Holman and Sheehan who will be left unrated.

Thomas is extremely unlikely to ever play A-grade footy for Carlton and Kreuzer even more so. I'd back Henderson to become an A-grade CHB and all of Casboult, Everitt and warnock could easily become B graders imo

 

[Monkey King]

Uuumm - I'm a dedicated Blues supporter - and your assessment is ridiculous.

Rate the list. Not on potential, what's the point in that ? Rate on them right now. Here you go.

Err ... I was asked directly to assess the list according to that rating system. Did you happen to catch that?

 

[Monkey King]

You overlooked every KPF, because you put all your eggs into Thomas and had nothing left to offer any other player.

Again, please provide this list of quality KPF's.

If you honestly think Simon White, Sam Rowe and an aging Michael Jamison are going to take you to your next flag, you're seriously deluded. Your defence is ordinary, we carve you up every time.

An aging Jamison ... who just turned 28yo. No, you see Jamison and Henderson were playing key defensive posts last year and doing quite well. Carlton were not "crying out for" established key defenders. You are wrong.

 

[Monkey King]

In assessing stocks, there's no way I'm buying anything that's dropped 10% each year for the past three years despite what they've delivered prior...

Not for me. A falling share price can be a massive trigger to buy if the conditions are right; and consistent earnings history (thanks Warren) plays a big part in the equation. If you get a company of proven quality whose share price falls due to something like a reduced yearly earnings forecast, or some other short term factor that can be rectified, it's good for the pickings in my books. Long term performance is far more important for me than what's happened this last 5 minutes. If all you do is go chasing bull markets, you're going to struggle in the long run.

 

[Fadge]

Again, please provide this list of quality KPF's.

An aging Jamison ... who just turned 28yo. No, you see Jamison and Henderson were playing key defensive posts last year and doing quite well. Carlton were not "crying out for" established key defenders. You are wrong.

Despite many of the Carlton faithful regarding Henderson as their best forward.

Therefore, if you were to pick up an established key defender, couldn't you then lock in Henderson as a permanent forward?

 

[Fadge]

Not for me. A falling share price can be a massive trigger to buy if the conditions are right; and consistent earnings history (thanks Warren) plays a big part in the equation. If you get a company of proven quality whose share price falls due to something like a reduced yearly earnings forecast, or some other short term factor that can be rectified, it's good for the pickings in my books. Long term performance is far more important for me than what's happened this last 5 minutes. If all you do is go chasing bull markets, you're going to struggle in the long run.

Hence why I stated three consecutive years...

 

[etsal1]

menzel and Thomas aren't a graders right now.

missed the part where he said POTENTIAL?

 

[Monkey King]

Hence why I stated three consecutive years...

In the life of a quality company, 3 years is relatively short term. And historical performance plays a mighty big role. I actually get my best returns leveraging market overreaction to short term events. I feel the same way about football. What's the saying? "Form is temporary, class is permanent".

 

[Fadge]

In the life of a quality company, 3 years is relatively short term. And historical performance plays a mighty big role. I actually get my best returns leveraging market overreaction to short term events. I feel the same way about football. What's the saying? "Form is temporary, class is permanent".

Apart from the fact the average career of an AFL listed player is what, two to three years?

From your response I presume you're still confident of the Thomas trade being a success (acknowledging that judgement of success or otherwise is open to interpretation)?

 

[Monkey King]

From your response I presume you're still confident of the Thomas trade being a success (acknowledging that judgement of success or otherwise is open to interpretation)?

Yes I am. And I don't think Garlett's career is over after a poor season either.

 

[Fadge]

Yes I am. And I don't think Garlett's career is over after a poor season either.

What does success look like in your world?

 

[Monkey King]

Thomas is extremely unlikely to ever play A-grade footy for Carlton and Kreuzer even more so.

I don't see it as likely or unlikely at this point. Not much footy for 2 years previous. No preseason to speak of. That he's not in top form is not surprising in the least to me. I don't get it, because if he bounded back to top form I'd actually be more surprised than with what's happened. I back his quality as a player and definitely put him in the potential A Grade list. Kreuzer I agree is a more questionable. Has the talent, but might never get a run at it injury free. Has the potential IMO for sure, but perhaps he's never going to realise that potential.

I'd back Henderson to become an A-grade CHB and all of Casboult, Everitt and warnock could easily become B graders imo

I agree with most of this. Casboult and Everitt in particular. At this point though I'm happy with my rating.

As a CHB Henderson certainly has that potential and has even displayed A Grade form at times in the past. I slipped him to the B+ Grade because it seems MM is wanting him forward and while he might be one of our better KPF's (through lack of options), I don't think he'll ever be an A grade in that position.

 

[Monkey King]

What does success look like in your world?

Success can take many forms.