Carlton's list

[fishardansin]

Warning, Hindsight Wizard alert:

Getting Mick has been a disaster for Carlton. It sent the totally wrong message to the club as to where they were at. Club should have been cleaning out and getting a career coach with excellent development credentials and throwing an open check book at the recruiting department, letting them know that they'll have control over the list ahead of the coach.

Trading for Judd was a mistake. Yes the draft picks taken by West Coast haven't turned out that awesome, but continuing building up the youth stock at that time and hanging on to a gun young CHF would have been preferential. Trading for Warnock when they had Hampson, Kruezer and the ranger that went to Adelaide was also a mistake. They should have traded out Fev at that time instead of getting those two to the club.

They would have had another suite of high draft picks and then the following year finished below Essendon on the ladder and been able to take Hurley or a KPP.

However, this has all occured and they now find themselves in a pickle. Despite his age Mick has shown himself to be a good development coach and got the most out of some very ordinary footballers at Collingwood with a consistent game plan and a well defined role. If they take the pressure off him and openly go through a complete rebuild they will be able to become contenders on the back end of the new teams' period of dominance.

 

[Monkey King]

Claiming Mick has no responsibility for the crap position carlton are in and its all Rattens fault ...

Umm ... and when do you think I said this? Go find a quote with me saying anything like this? And when you don't, I expect you to man up and come back admitting your error.

I've actually said in this thread that I wanted the club to stick with Ratten, so this is seriously some voices in my head shit going on right here. Bizarre!

Re my list assessment. You may have a different opinion, which is fine, but to claim mine as "hilariously wrong", as though you're solely armed with the facts about a potential future, is just misguided arrogance.

 

[Doro]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ratten-dead-man-walking.959679/
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ratten-it-is-time.959711/
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...a-brett-ratten-goodbye-tribute-thread.959731/

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ratten-sacked.959633/
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/apparently-ratten-is-getting-the-boot-tomorrow.959357/
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...inent-magic-8-ball-it-is-decidedly-so.959313/
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...nfess-to-tanking-like-dean-bailey-did.959289/
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/will-ratten-last-the-season.959000/

For all the new 'Ratten was hard done by' supporters, here is a little memory jog from the months preceding his sacking:

 

[JuddsABlue]

Casboult kicks 4 straight while still playing 2nd ruck with 8 marks

Needs to get fitted like I said, but when hes such a strong mark, planting him 20m out will return a lot of goals going forward

 

[Monkey King]

Casboult kicks 4 straight while still playing 2nd ruck with 8 marks

Needs to get fitted like I said, but when hes such a strong mark, planting him 20m out will return a lot of goals going forward

4 contested too. Interesting to hear the thoughts of two of the best pack marks our game has seen these last couple of decades in Jono Brown and Wayne Carey. Both reckon Casboult is the best contested mark in the game at the minute.

Btw doppleganger, Carey was of the opinion Casboult was one of the games most improved players this year, getting out of the 50 and presenting up the ground more, impacting more contests and having more to do with general play. Sound familiar? I guess the bloke actually watches footy. Maybe you should have rung in to set him straight about Levi being no better than he was in 2012

 

[bombermick]

They have an average list, with very poor developing KPP options. Other posters have correctly stated Port were once in trouble as an example of a quick list regeneration, but they had a plethora of top youngsters who for form/injury hadn't produced their best. Carlton don't have that quality.

 

[Fadge]

4 contested too. Interesting to hear the thoughts of two of the best pack marks our game has seen these last couple of decades in Jono Brown and Wayne Carey. Both reckon Casboult is the best contested mark in the game at the minute.

Btw doppleganger, Carey was of the opinion Casboult was one of the games most improved players this year, getting out of the 50 and presenting up the ground more, impacting more contests and having more to do with general play. Sound familiar? I guess the bloke actually watches footy. Maybe you should have rung in to set him straight about Levi being no better than he was in 2012

Just a gentle reminder MK, your mob played St. Kilda today. Fantastic win, probably keeps you safe from another wooden spoon.

 

[JuddsABlue]

4 contested too. Interesting to hear the thoughts of two of the best pack marks our game has seen these last couple of decades in Jono Brown and Wayne Carey. Both reckon Casboult is the best contested mark in the game at the minute.

Btw doppleganger, Carey was of the opinion Casboult was one of the games most improved players this year, getting out of the 50 and presenting up the ground more, impacting more contests and having more to do with general play. Sound familiar? I guess the bloke actually watches footy. Maybe you should have rung in to set him straight about Levi being no better than he was in 2012

I watch a lot of footy and I cant think of any player who when under the ball has a better chance than Casboult (I feel like chance is the wrong word, feels like im saying hes unlikely to mark it, because he just clunks it near every time)

I was hinting at it earlier in my posts that he may be the best contested mark in the comp but I didnt want to say it get shot down for it, but now that both Duck and Brown have said it, I feel much more comfortable

 

[JuddsABlue]

Just a gentle reminder MK, your mob played St. Kilda today. Fantastic win, probably keeps you safe from another wooden spoon.

today hasnt solved any of our issues, but on the topic of Casboult hes been taking marks over the best defenders in the competition, today was no different

He continues to prove the doubters wrong ITT

 

[jj1978]

One thing to note our average losing margin this year is 12points... Our only blowout was against Essendon. If we didn't have 22players having off season surgery and getting a preseason and maybe won one of the games against Richmond, Port, Cats, Brisbane, Melbourne momentum may have been different and our confidence levels better.

Today we finally saw Henderson, Jamison, Walker, Touhy play how we know they're capable of playing but injury has impacted their seasons. Some kids showing the goods in Menzell, Johnson... With Buckley, Cripps coming back from injury another couple of good kids to bring into the fold. We may not win another game for the season due to our hard draw but we'll frighten the teams we play and have a hand in shaping the eight...

Next year I see us doing a North and Shake off fro just losing games to finally sealing a few more wins and lifting up the ladder a bit.

 

[Fadge]

One thing to note our average losing margin this year is 12points... Our only blowout was against Essendon. If we didn't have 22players having off season surgery and getting a preseason and maybe won one of the games against Richmond, Port, Cats, Brisbane, Melbourne momentum may have been different and our confidence levels better.

Today we finally saw Henderson, Jamison, Walker, Touhy play how we know they're capable of playing but injury has impacted their seasons. Some kids showing the goods in Menzell, Johnson... With Buckley, Cripps coming back from injury another couple of good kids to bring into the fold. We may not win another game for the season due to our hard draw but we'll frighten the teams we play and have a hand in shaping the eight...

Next year I see us doing a North and Shake off fro just losing games to finally sealing a few more wins and lifting up the ladder a bit.

Here we go again... You guys will never learn.

 

[Monkey King]

Just a gentle reminder MK, your mob played St. Kilda today.

Not the first time Carey has said this about Casboult. When both J Brown and Carey make comments like this about a player, it might pay for those who think the "clock is ticking", or that he's the same player he was in 2012, to sit up and pay closer attention to see what it is they're missing.

Fantastic win, probably keeps you safe from another wooden spoon.

Just another indicator that shows Carlton aren't in the same position they were in 2007

 

[pinot]

Form and confidence plays a huge part but when can you say form and confidence is the issue after three years of under performance?

I thought we played really well against Geelong and Hawthorn and unlucky not to win both of them. Will give Swans a run for their money and then lose by eight points.

 

[Monkey King]

They have an average list, with very poor developing KPP options. Other posters have correctly stated Port were once in trouble as an example of a quick list regeneration, but they had a plethora of top youngsters who for form/injury hadn't produced their best. Carlton don't have that quality.

I'm not sure why under-performing players need to be youngsters for a team to have improvement in them.

 

[Stax on the mill]

today hasnt solved any of our issues, but on the topic of Casboult hes been taking marks over the best defenders in the competition, today was no different

He continues to prove the doubters wrong ITT

No doubt he is a fantastic contested mark. If he just had a better kicking technique he could be right up there as an elite player. It's a real pity this wasn't addressed well before he got to this level. Unfortunately it's probably too late now to expect much improvement.

 

[JuddsABlue]

No doubt he is a fantastic contested mark. If he just had a better kicking technique he could be right up there as an elite player. It's a real pity this wasn't addressed well before he got to this level. Unfortunately it's probably too late now to expect much improvement.

Since the bye hes kicked 11.1 (currently on a 9.0 streak), I think you'd have to look a fair way to find a power forward whos kicked that accurately over 10 goals since then

It includes 50+m kicks and awakward 25m ones that he used to struggle with

So I'd say the improved has already come (was saying that earlier in the thread, hes been much better recently with an obviously changed style), rather than waiting for it to happen

 

[Monkey King]

No doubt he is a fantastic contested mark. If he just had a better kicking technique he could be right up there as an elite player. It's a real pity this wasn't addressed well before he got to this level.

Funnily enough, he kicked something like 41 goals 11 behinds in the TAC Cup the year he was drafted.

Unfortunately it's probably too late now to expect much improvement.

And yet he seems to have improved this year.

I'm no expert on kicking action, but when you watch Levi during the warm ups his ball drop looks much better and he sends most of them through the sticks without issue from all manner of angles. This makes me wonder if it's more a confidence/mental issue than purely technique.

 

[Love the Drake]

Here we go again... You guys will never learn.

Hmmmm. This coming from a collingwood "we are a flag contender" supporter!

Kettle…Black

 

[kanye_best]

7 of his 11 goals have been against top 8 sides (Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood x2)(He didn't play against Port)
In fact his best game was against Geelong. Career high disposals and kicks to go with his 8 marks and goal.
As his confidence rises he's gonna cause some real headaches for opposition defenders

 

[Omega Blue]

They have an average list, with very poor developing KPP options. Other posters have correctly stated Port were once in trouble as an example of a quick list regeneration, but they had a plethora of top youngsters who for form/injury hadn't produced their best. Carlton don't have that quality.

they only have a plethora NOW at the time apart from a few they were considered ordinary with no depth. hindsight

 

[fishardansin]

Hmmmm. This coming from a collingwood "we are a flag contender" supporter!

Kettle…Black

But you would say that Collingwood require less tinkering than Carlton to have list that is top 4 quality. Right?

He was talking about a Carlton supporter talking up a bunch of guys well into their career of mediocrity after beating St Kilda.

 

[Fadge]

But you would say that Collingwood require less tinkering than Carlton to have list that is top 4 quality. Right?

He was talking about a Carlton supporter talking up a bunch of guys well into their career of mediocrity after beating St Kilda.

No, no, no. See, Carlton have got Gibbs, Murphy, Menzel and Casboult!

You know they're coming (it's just taken a little longer than they expected)!

 

[Fadge]

Hmmmm. This coming from a collingwood "we are a flag contender" supporter!

Kettle…Black

Yeah, you're right. Collingwood have only contended for a flag in 3 to 5 of the past seven years.

I expect them to contend every year, they are a constant disappointment, is there any room on the Carlton bandwagon now that you're clearly going to be a contender?

 

[MightyTiger]

Casboult for brownlow??

 

[Canada]

Carlton have been good against some top teams without winning.
Henderson, Rowe, Casboult, Jamison, Kreuzer, Waite. Not a bad KPP bunch. White and Everett looked good yesterday.
Buckley, Cripps, Menzell, Gibbs, Murphy, Docherty. Not all doom and gloom.
But will face he same issues as 'like lists' Rich, Coll etc
How to compete with GWS and GC boom teams! Good luck