Carlton's list

[Crankyhawk]

Mate - your on your own here - do you realise that ?

Even the Carlton board has started turning the corner - there are that many people coming out stating emphatically that things are shite and the problem lies with the supporters acceptance of shite that even the CARLTON BOARD has started admitting - maybe - being last is not Rattens Fault.

But yeah - Valley is great - hows 21st Century ?

a little harsh on MK - I recall was one who was against ratten being sacked when mick was appointed.

 

[thetradesman]

Wait are they arguing with each other? Lol

 

[doppleganger]

4 contested too. Interesting to hear the thoughts of two of the best pack marks our game has seen these last couple of decades in Jono Brown and Wayne Carey. Both reckon Casboult is the best contested mark in the game at the minute.

Btw doppleganger, Carey was of the opinion Casboult was one of the games most improved players this year, getting out of the 50 and presenting up the ground more, impacting more contests and having more to do with general play. Sound familiar? I guess the bloke actually watches footy. Maybe you should have rung in to set him straight about Levi being no better than he was in 2012

You should have let them know Casboult was the best contested mark going back in 2012 MK, need to listen to MK he is an early adopter.

Bahahaha, yep a throwaway line from a special comments man is proof of something!

heck me Carey was having pot shots at Collingwood and Buckley about having woeful defensive strategies in rd1, and then five weeks later against north he is championing them as one of the best defensive efforts he had seen....so which is it Wayne??

 

[Blues_Man]

Since the bye hes kicked 11.1 (currently on a 9.0 streak), I think you'd have to look a fair way to find a power forward whos kicked that accurately over 10 goals since then

It includes 50+m kicks and awakward 25m ones that he used to struggle with

So I'd say the improved has already come (was saying that earlier in the thread, hes been much better recently with an obviously changed style), rather than waiting for it to happen

Stop using facts and logic on trolling Pies ferals ...they don't understand that Shit.

 

[JuddsABlue]

heck me Carey was having pot shots at Collingwood and Buckley about having woeful defensive strategies in rd1, and then five weeks later against north he is championing them as one of the best defensive efforts he had seen....so which is it Wayne??

not that I want to put words in the Kings mouth but....maybe Collingwood improved in their defensive efforts over the 5 rounds in between?

 

[doppleganger]

not that I want to put words in the Kings mouth but....maybe Collingwood improved in their defensive efforts over the 5 rounds in between?

Just pointing out that attempting to use a special commentators in-game detail when they are all prone to exaggeration and being caught up in the moment is rather pointless.

Remember watching Syd v Rich and after Buddy kicked a nice goal......cut to Carey 'best I have ever seen Buddy kick for goal, lost his inconsistency' blah blah blah...just because he kicked a couple in a row.

Looks as though Carlton are back to where they were in 2012...with Henderson, Casboult, Waite, Jamison, Kreuzer, Rowe, Warnock forming a quality spine to build around.

 

[Monkey King]

Bahahaha, yep a throwaway line from a special comments man is proof of something!

Sure. It's all just "throwaway lines". Utterly meaningless and unrelated to reality.

Nah. I don't care much for this deflection. When Jono Brown and Carey both independently claim someone as the best contested mark at the minute, you'd be an idiot to dismiss it. But hey, if that's the position you want to adopt, who am I to argue.

In regards to Carey's comments on Casboult's improvement, it wasn't a throwaway line either. He actually said it a number of times and included a couple of other players after some thought. It mimics Malthouse's statement during the presser after a jounro's observation - that Levi is Carlton's most improved player this year. Again, probably better at this point you stop dismissing everyone and take a second look at where you got it wrong.

 

[Blues_Man]

Levi has kicked 9 straight in his last 4 Games...so his Goal kicking is on the improve, glad we have persisted with him .

 

[Love the Drake]

Yeah, you're right. Collingwood have only contended for a flag in 3 to 5 of the past seven years.

I expect them to contend every year, they are a constant disappointment, is there any room on the Carlton bandwagon now that you're clearly going to be a contender?

And this quote sums you up. "We've been a contender for 3 to 5 of the past seven years". Get a grip. You've won one flag in the last 20 years...as have we. No-one remembers who came 2nd, 3rd, 4th...

You are the one saying we are a contender (which is ridiculous). I support my team but have realistic expectations and know where we are at (re-build); same can't be said for you so enjoy the constant disappointment..

 

[slashin_velvet]

The good things from a carlton list perspective is that we are getting games into youth, and are moving in the right direction in that regard - Bell, Menzel, Buckley, Johnson, Graham, Cripps have all played this year, with Holman and Sheehan both unlucky to not have gotten a game yet.

We have already had 2 retirements, and delisted a player which is the forced 3 changes....but look to make quite a few more as part of our rebuild which is a positive thing for the club (unlike 2012 where we had a lot of deadwood on 2 year contracts).

For players struggling to get games at another club...we might be an attractive destination from a gametime perspective. We dont have a ton of A grade quality in the reserves, and if we identify a role for a player we are trading in....odds are they will play (Everitt, Thomas being prime examples - Docherty unfortunately had some setbacks in the offseason but played AFL once ready).

We also have held up ok against some top teams. Turning these losses into wins isnt just a matter of time...it will take more improvements to the list....but the good thing is we arent getting absolutely smashed off the park. That being said, our wins against the Dogs, Eagles and Crows were all hardly big wins either. We need to build consistency in our game, as our bad quarters generally cost us the whole game.

 

[Fadge]

And this quote sums you up. "We've been a contender for 3 to 5 of the past seven years". Get a grip. You've won one flag in the last 20 years...as have we. No-one remembers who came 2nd, 3rd, 4th...

You are the one saying we are a contender (which is ridiculous). I support my team but have realistic expectations and know where we are at (re-build); same can't be said for you so enjoy the constant disappointment..

If you are ever in the position to contend again you may realise how difficult it is to win a flag in the modern era. One has to contend, usually multiple times, to nab one.

Until then, go and live in your halcyon years of the 70's and 80's - that's all your going to have for the foreseeable future.

BTW, what were your expectations re: Carlton at the start of this season?

 

[Fadge]

All this hype about Levi...

The guy has averaged 1.08 goals per game this year. Imagine if he wasn't the best contested mark in the competition or hadn't kicked 11.1 in his past 12 scoring shots!

Sounds like a 24yo KPF you can build your team around...

 

[HARKER]

All this hype about Levi...

The guy has averaged 1.08 goals per game this year. Imagine if he hadn't kicked 11.1 in his past 12 scoring shots!

Sounds like a 24yo KPF you can build your team around...

Sounds like a 24 y.o. that has worked hard in the off-season, built his tank and gained confidence in his abilities..............That's all.

 

[checkpoints]

Rumour has it we have no young talent......

Congrats to Menzel on his Round 16 Rising Star nomination!

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

If you are ever in the position to contend again you may realise how difficult it is to win a flag in the modern era. One has to contend, usually multiple times, to nab one.

Until then, go and live in your halcyon years of the 70's and 80's - that's all your going to have for the foreseeable future.

BTW, what were your expectations re: Carlton at the start of this season?

Haven't Carlton & Collingwood won a grand total of 2 premierships in the last 20 odd years ? One each ?
Your insights are fantastic, but perhaps should be championed to the team you support, appears they need your expertise just as badly.

 

[doppleganger]

Sure. It's all just "throwaway lines". Utterly meaningless and unrelated to reality.

Nah. I don't care much for this deflection. When Jono Brown and Carey both independently claim someone as the best contested mark at the minute, you'd be an idiot to dismiss it. But hey, if that's the position you want to adopt, who am I to argue.

Pardon me for not rating what Carey has to say.

Why is Carey's opinion supposed to mean something? Because he was a good player??

The special comments men get caught up in a moment and try to say something memorable, they are trying to get noticed amid what 4 other commentators....so out come the best this and that, over-reactions to everything happening.

You were arguing Casboult was one of the best contested marks back in 2012 anyway?!

In regards to Carey's comments on Casboult's improvement, it wasn't a throwaway line either. He actually said it a number of times and included a couple of other players after some thought. It mimics Malthouse's statement during the presser after a jounro's observation - that Levi is Carlton's most improved player this year. Again, probably better at this point you stop dismissing everyone and take a second look at where you got it wrong.

Fair enough, perhaps I got it wrong.

Carlton people all trumpeting Casboult as a big success and big improver under Mick, perhaps I over-rated Casboult back in 2012 under Ratten.

 

[Fadge]

Rumour has it we have no young talent......

Congrats to Menzel on his Round 16 Rising Star nomination!

9 possessions against the bottom team 'earns' a nomination?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

9 possessions against the bottom team 'earns' a nomination?

Is the rising star award a new concept for you? Plenty of times it is an accumulation of performances.

9 disposals yes ... but also 7 marks and 2 goals. It might also the 22 goals. 21 goals in the 10 games he has not been the sub. Averaging 4.6 marks in those 10 games. A third of his possessions are contested. He's a decent contested mark.

Is there another eligible player that deserves a nomination ahead of him?

 

[Fadge]

Is the rising star award a new concept for you? Plenty of times it is an accumulation of performances.

9 disposals yes ... but also 7 marks and 2 goals. It might also the 22 goals. 21 goals in the 10 games he has not been the sub. Averaging 4.6 marks in those 10 games. A third of his possessions are contested. He's a decent contested mark.

Is there another eligible player that deserves a nomination ahead of him?

On that basis, is it appropriate to award the Rising Star nom to a player who didn't actually play in the specific round but his accumulated performances to date had him more worthy than any other candidates?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

On that basis, is it appropriate to award the Rising Star nom to a player who didn't actually play in the specific round but his accumulated performances to date had him more worthy than any other candidates?

Redundant. He had 9 disposals at 89% efficiency, 8 marks, 1 contested mark, 2 goals, in only 69% game time (he was injured). I'm no expert but I think that means he played during the round he was nominated. It is also fact that they have given nominations based on an accumulation of efforts.

Pretty sure one of the AFL scribes suggested he had been unlucky not to be nominated before now and deserved one.

Since he has been nominated, there is nothing left for you to do but suck it up. No obsessive denial will change it now.

 

[etsal1]

Why am I not surprised

 

[Love the Drake]

If you are ever in the position to contend again you may realise how difficult it is to win a flag in the modern era. One has to contend, usually multiple times, to nab one.

Until then, go and live in your halcyon years of the 70's and 80's - that's all your going to have for the foreseeable future.

BTW, what were your expectations re: Carlton at the start of this season?

Firstly, thanks for the lesson in how hard it is to win a flag...very insightful.

You are also on the money re memories of football. I unashamedly enjoy watching past eras and premierships...that is why we are called 'fans' isn't it?! Or don't you bother watching the 1990 or 2010 premierships because they are in the past?

My hopes for carlton were to win more games than last year and blood some quality youngsters. Not enough wins, but Buckley (remember his dad in the 79 & 81 grand finals?), Menzel, cripps and graham are coming along nicely.

And now that you aren't going to win the flag this year (you do realise don't you?). Your expectations for the rest of the season?

 

[Vankri]

Menzel is more talented and has more star potential than at least half the players nominated so far so it was obvious he would get a nomination eventually, based on overall season performance.

Casboult is providing the begining of an answer to one of Carlton's glaring weaknesses, which is the lack of talls to build a forward line around. Only part of the equation however.

They should be worried about the 4-year 700K contract to Thomas though. It's soon going to be 1 year since he re-injured his ankle (2+ years since he was last seen playing good footy) and 15 games later he still looks a shadow of his former self and doesn't seem to ever be in the top 10 players on the field. He's been poor even by Carlton's standards, not sure he'd be anywhere near the leaders of their best and fairest.

 

[Love the Drake]

Menzel is more talented and has more star potential than at least half the players nominated so far so it was obvious he would get a nomination eventually, based on overall season performance.

Casboult is providing the begining of an answer to one of Carlton's glaring weaknesses, which is the lack of talls to build a forward line around. Only part of the equation however.

They should be worried about the 4-year 700K contract to Thomas though. It's soon going to be 1 year since he re-injured his ankle (2+ years since he was last seen playing good footy) and 15 games later he still looks a shadow of his former self and doesn't seem to ever be in the top 10 players on the field. He's been poor even by Carlton's standards, not sure he'd be anywhere near the leaders of their best and fairest.

Good post. Daisy hasn't played great footy this year, but he has come from a long way back.

The value he adds to our team is intangible. For a team of introverts he is what we desperately need. He is a great leader/mentor for our young players (and some older ones) due to his work ethic and fierce competitiveness.

So is he worth 700k. Maybe not yet, but let's revisit at the end of 2017.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

They should be worried about the 4-year 700K contract to Thomas though. It's soon going to be 1 year since he re-injured his ankle (2+ years since he was last seen playing good footy) and 15 games later he still looks a shadow of his former self and doesn't seem to ever be in the top 10 players on the field. He's been poor even by Carlton's standards, not sure he'd be anywhere near the leaders of their best and fairest.

When he first came over, we expected him to be playing midseason so he's only a few games past where we expected him to start.

17 disposals per game, 5 marks per game and 11 goals for the season. It's okay considering the low fitness base he as coming from. A little too early for us to be concerned I'd suggest.

If his impact is as low next season, we'd have an issue.