Changes Round 5 vs Hawks

[Doggies7]

Would be so handy to add a fit Treloar in over the next few weeks, missing that VFL game on the weekend with soreness is such bad timing... Our age profile on the weekend was already pretty young from the team named Thursday, taking out Ed and Tim from that likely with Hynes and one of Buss or Emmett skews that even younger again.

Next couple weeks will be a great test for this young group.

 

[theAthenian]

im flat as a tack as if we were 0-4 instead of 4-0 why why why timmy why?

 

[bobs head soup]

When I think of how English has been playing around the ground;

Primarily setting up behind the ball and looking to intercept mark, but pushing forward to provide an option when the opportunity arises,

I can't help but think that Lobb is the man for that role. He could actually be really effective, far more than the alternatives.

Buss in, Lobb to Ruck for mine.

 

[go_sports_team]

When I think of how English has been playing around the ground;

Primarily setting up behind the ball and looking to intercept mark, but pushing forward to provide an option when the opportunity arises,

I can't help but think that Lobb is the man for that role. He could actually be really effective, far more than the alternatives.

Buss in, Lobb to Ruck for mine.

My thoughts also. Lobb is generally competitive in the ruck, this makes the most sense to me.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

Why isn’t anyone considering L Smith in for English? He’s the most natural replacement and allows us to keep our defensive and forward structure.

Should chuck him in the deep end and see how he swims.

 

[Libba39]

When I think of how English has been playing around the ground;

Primarily setting up behind the ball and looking to intercept mark, but pushing forward to provide an option when the opportunity arises,

I can't help but think that Lobb is the man for that role. He could actually be really effective, far more than the alternatives.

Buss in, Lobb to Ruck for mine.

Busslinger is not capable at this level. Gunston and Chol would run rings around him.

 

[BEaston]

Busslinger is not capable at this level. Gunston and Chol would run rings around him.

Why? In all his AFL games he's shown to be more than adequate for a player of his experience.

Not saying he wouldn't get beaten, but it's a bit of a tall order to expect someone to just come in and dominate.

He hasn't looked out of place at AFL level at all.

 

[Libba39]

Why isn’t anyone considering L Smith in for English? He’s the most natural replacement and allows us to keep our defensive and forward structure.

Should chuck him in the deep end and see how he swims

If you've watched the vfl games you would see that Emmett has already surpassed Smith. Smith was demoted to the backline for much of the Bombers game. The only issue would be him running out a full game and probably a bit of physicality against Meek.

 

[Dogs Rule]

No reason we can't beat the Hawks and Geelong IF as you say everybody steps up and plays their part. No passengers.

Bring Emmett in, 4-0 nothing to lose. How far off is Cody?

 

[bresker]

Emmet's running capacity is elite, he's a former rower & covers the ground . I'd be surprised if he doesn't play.

 

[cecil]

I actually think it'll be Gardner in and Lobb to the ruck. Gardner covers ground well and loves a spoil first mentality. Could also see us bring in Emmett for Croft who has had a slow start to the year.

We'd also then have the option of pushing Lobb back if needed, with Emmett/Gardner to split ruck minutes 50/50.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Emmett being named as an emergency last week is a pretty good indicator that with English’s injury that he’s the next tall who in line and that he’ll debut this week.

We have enough talls in the side to share the workload of the ruck. I see no scenario where we go with Smith. A player who seems entirely unsuited to the modern game and where it’s headed.


So I’d rather bring in a debutant who offers a degree of versatility over one who is completely one dimensional.

Regardless. This game will be won or lost by how we deal with Hawthorns small forward and mids. And whether Darcy and Naughton can getter the better of Barass and Battle. It won’t hinge on what first gamer we bring into replace our injured ruckman.

 

[dogwatch]

Why isn’t anyone considering L Smith in for English? He’s the most natural replacement and allows us to keep our defensive and forward structure.

Should chuck him in the deep end and see how he swims.

It could yet happen but it seems unlikely.

• The new rules favour leaner athletic types rather than heavy muscular types without much leap
• It’s not just about hitouts. What English brings as his main point of difference is the ability to run all day. He can become a tall midfielder who can outrun his direct opponent. He can also become an extra tall in attack or defence, taking a timely mark while his opponent is labouring to catch up 40m away.
• Our new defence strategy needs someone like English to help with intercept marks when we have retreated to the back third and dared the opposition to send in the long bomb. His height and mobility is ideal for this. Smith on the other hand doesn’t do this very well. So our newfound strength in defence may become susceptible.

As noted above Emmett has started to take on that sort of a role in the VFL. Smith seems to have been tried out as a KPD where - just perhaps- a big bulky body might still be an asset.

​

 

[lachy]

Why isn’t anyone considering L Smith in for English? He’s the most natural replacement and allows us to keep our defensive and forward structure.

Should chuck him in the deep end and see how he swims.

Quite a few including myself have

 

[lachy]

If you've watched the vfl games you would see that Emmett has already surpassed Smith. Smith was demoted to the backline for much of the Bombers game. The only issue would be him running out a full game and probably a bit of physicality against Meek.

Having watched the VFL game and the first VFL game there are significant flaws in your statements.

Firstly Emmett played as a forward and back up ruck as demonstrated by his 3 goals one and the majority of his marks in the fwd line.

Smith played mainly in the ruck and was in the backline more early as this is where most of the ruck contests were.

Smith had 3 times the hit outs to Emmett and 4 times Hit outs to advantage.

Smith can handle the physicality of Meek.

Emmett should be in for Croft as he is playing that role better but first ruck is either Lobb or Smith and given the Hawks forward line the last area of the ground I would be weaking is the Backline

 

[lachy]

Busslinger is not capable at this level. Gunston and Chol would run rings around him.

Did alright on Hogan and players significantly better than Chol

 

[Bald]

What's the latest on Coffield? Statistically he seemed sound on the weekend, he's probably the right size and agility for Gunston, is a bit more of an experienced head than Busslinger and clearly better than Gardner.

I think our best ruck option is Lobb, but I know that takes him out of the backline which is where I'd prefer him.

 

[lachy]

We have enough talls in the side to share the workload of the ruck. I see no scenario where we go with Smith. A player who seems entirely unsuited to the modern game and where it’s headed.


So I’d rather bring in a debutant who offers a degree of versatility over one who is completely one dimensional.

What is this myth about Smith being one dementional??

Is often used as a linkman and his average disposals, tackles and clearances certainly do not suggest he is one dementional.

Yes he is a ruckman with a similar profile to Darcy Cameron, 10 years younger similar mobility

 

[Norm De Guerre]

What is this myth about Smith being one dementional??

Is often used as a linkman and his average disposals, tackles and clearances certainly do not suggest he is one dementional.

Yes he is a ruckman with a similar profile to Darcy Cameron, 10 years younger similar mobility

When I watch him, all I see is a undersized, un-athletic ruckman from yesteryear.

I haven't really noticed any of the marking ability that allows Cameron to survive with a similar limitations.

Yes. I understand that he's 20. Just like I understand that he may make me eat my words as soon as this week.

It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[lachy]

When I watch him, all I see is a undersized, un-athletic ruckman from yesteryear.

I haven't really noticed any of the marking ability that allows Cameron to survive with a similar limitations.

Yes. I understand that he's 20. Just like I understand that he may make me eat my words as soon as this week.

It wouldn't be the first time.

Fair comment but I would ask Undersized compared to who? He is the same size as Meek though 7 years less physical development. An again having watched a lot of the VFL over the last couple of years, yes he is not English but as a ruckman he is more athletic than Sweet or even premiership Ruckman Darcy Fort.

I am not sure he makes it as I haven't seen him tested at AFL level, which given his age when he came to us was fair enough, but his mobility and ability to run out games after a couple of pre season appears to be his strength.

 

[Libbaaaa]

No reason we can't beat the Hawks and Geelong IF as you say everybody steps up and plays their part. No passengers.

Bring Emmett in, 4-0 nothing to lose. How far off is Cody?

Best case scenario Cody is still a couple of months away, that is if everything goes perfectly for him.

Also you can guarantee Chol kicks 3-4 goals all from the boundary against us as well.

 

[DueWest]

One key injury in English and our list is really exposed for the lack of ruck and key back options.

Obvious replacements

• Smith, probably not seeing he isn’t playing first ruck in VFL at the moment, and hasn’t including the practice games. A big body and from a structure perspective keeping Darcy forward and Lobb back seems to be a reasonable choice
• Emmett, has been rucking in VFL however throwing in a young first year player against Hawks is asking for trouble, would consider him as second ruck however, or if Darcy went to first ruck and Emmett is ruck forward
• Darcy, do you drive a Mercedes on a 4wd bush track ? Also feel he is playing with injury at the moment so not ideal
• Lobb, probably best ruck choice but how do you replace him down back and if you do does that just stuff up the team structure given how well we have played in 3.5 games so far

Lobb replacements

• Buss, everyone says not up to it however why is he still on list then ? It’s now or never I think
• Coffield, smaller back May work against Hawks who are not huge up forward and hasn’t including experience and going ok at VFL
• Gardiner, sorry no in his one game in 2025 it showed how far off he is t AFL level, he mostly struggles at VFL these days
• Cleary, means we go small but may work if Cleary can go to Gunston

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Wow there is a lot a negative comments on our team injuries.
We are top of the table with the best player in the comp, our defence structure has been the best it has been for years, and we are playing almost half our team with under 50 games.
So much to be positive about.

Ed is a massive out for me along with Libba.
However The Bont, MKennedy and Colonel are excellent as the 1st midfield rotation 105 possessions on the weekend. Fridge, westy and Cooper coming in as the 2nd midfield group.

Timmy is a loss, but the dogs are only equal 7th with the Crows for Hit outs to advantage, and 10th in Hit outs to 1st possession.
Against Meek, LSmith might be an option only due to his physicality, but restrictions on rucking in the middle of the ground due to his limited cardio and experience. 2nd ruck is Croft, with expanded ruck duties in the fwd line.
Lobb to ruck down back.

Im gutted that Artys body has let him down again, just an electrifying player. He's best 22 if his body holds up.

Out Ed, Timmy, Arty
In Hynes, LSmith, Billings or CCP( reward for VFL form)

It’s the fact Timmy is dropping back and helping defencively or getting forward as an additional tall that we will desperately miss.

I’m as positive as anyone about how well we’ve started but coming smack bang into 4 real contenders playing great footy (Hawks v Geelong was outstanding) with these specific injuries is a disaster for us. I don’t care who the coach is, losing Richards, English, Libba absolutely guts our midfield. The reality is that they simply aren’t replaceable given our game style this year.

I’d give Emmett a run for the experience (looks a real talent), and it’s a great chance for Smith to get some exposure, but if we beat any of the next 4 teams I’ll be very surprised.

 

[BigFloppa]

I wish we still had Dunkley to throw into the ruck

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Fair comment but I would ask Undersized compared to who? He is the same size as Meek though 7 years less physical development. An again having watched a lot of the VFL over the last couple of years, yes he is not English but as a ruckman he is more athletic than Sweet or even premiership Ruckman Darcy Fort.

I am not sure he makes it as I haven't seen him tested at AFL level, which given his age when he came to us was fair enough, but his mobility and ability to run out games after a couple of pre season appears to be his strength.

There were the draft stats going around which showed that his standing reach and vertical jump were incredibly limited compared to the other rucks drafted in the same draft (Mitch Edwards, Taylor Goad etc.).

He's listed at 203cm, but doesn't have the athletic-style NBA player style wingspan to go with it, nor does he have leaping ability. Nor does he have the actual absolute strength via weight that someone like Meek does either - it's clear when watching both players who has the greater amount of muscle mass in the core, hips etc. to throw around.

These are all the players that got 10+ HO on the weekend:

With how the game's evolving, he would be one of the shortest "peak of the ball" type rucks in the league.
Pittonet - 202cm (this is who he can mould his game on)
Grundy - 202cm (but he has a much bigger wingspan)
Gawn - 209cm
McAndrew - 210cm
Reeves - 210cm
Jackson - 199cm (but is incredibly athletic, can jump and win groundballs below his knees)
Sweet - 206cm
Darcy - 203cm (but is a big boy, unlike Smith, who has narrower shoulders/hips)
Wright - 203cm (but a 2nd ruck, a key forward first)
Witts - 208cm
Ryan - 206cm
Cameron - 204cm (another player who he can model his game on, but Cameron has consistently led the league in intercept marks as a ruck, and used to get 30+ touches a game in the NEAFL, he reads the play and positions himself in the transition game not even better than rucks, but better than most shorter midfielders)
Edwards - 206cm
Meek - 203cm - (but another big boy like Darcy, but L. Smith isn't anywhere near his weight)
English - 208cm
O'Brien - 202cm (he may never play another AFL game)
Blakiston - 203cm (is Essendon's third-choice ruck)
Draper - 205cm
Flynn - 202cm (probably the worst consistent first ruck of the last couple of years)

Then you have TDK (201cm, but athletic) and Briggs (201cm)

I think it's fair to say that the better rucks in their league look at their height and athleticism in a way that just doesn't exist for Smith, unless he's either a) a player who is clearly smart, professional and works on his development after being a decade in the system like Pittonet, with very marginal improvements every year to this year, which will be a career-best year or b) we are happy with a medicore ruck like Matt Flynn or Kieran Briggs, who we should be constantly be looking to upgrade the position of as a reason why we wouldn't be a top 4 team.

All of this is assuming Smith is actually his 203cm listed height - lots of people over the journey have said he looks more like somewhere in the 197-200cm range, similar to next to Ryan Gardner in the same team or whatever.

Emmett's only 200cm - but like Croft who is 201cm, they can both run and cover the ground, and are not a million miles off someone like Ethan Read for GC (202cm) who can ruck, but they prefer to use his running capacity on the "fat side" of the ground and at times on the high half-forward/wing role while King takes the narrow side with short leads and simple kicks to get him his shots at goal.