Changes vs Fremantle - Round 5

[Munnez]

If it is important to give English games then the same should go for Schache, whether he kicks goals or not we need him there to help Naughton. We need Trengove to help English and we need to play Lewis Young and swap McLean and Wallis and …………..so on. Its all so simple.

Saints have simplified their approach and it is paying dividends. I don't know what's happening at the club but it does appear that we are over complicating it.
Just put players in their best position, structure up I mean seriously there is 100 odd years of evidence how to do it!
You can get away from it and get away with it sometime but to consistently successful a consistent structure is required, how much did Hawks structure change in their successful era??

 

[Dogs Rule]

Saints have simplified their approach and it is paying dividends. I don't know what's happening at the club but it does appear that we are over complicating it.
Just put players in their best position, structure up I mean seriously there is 100 odd years of evidence how to do it!
You can get away from it and get away with it sometime but to consistently successful a consistent structure is required, how much did Hawks structure change in their successful era??

This is why we need a strong and experienced assistant. Someone to stand up and say 'no, putting Dunkley in the ruck and having Caleb one out at full back is f****** insane'.

 

[Del165892]

If it is important to give English games then the same should go for Schache, whether he kicks goals or not we need him there to help Naughton. We need Trengove to help English and we need to play Lewis Young and swap McLean and Wallis and …………..so on. Its all so simple.

Giving games to Schache after his pathetic efforts would set a terrible precedent. Say what you want about English but at least he competes. If a player refuses to compete like Schache did they just cannot be given games. It has to be crystal clear that it's totally unacceptable to not go when it's your turn. I'd rather lose games than let pea-hearted efforts go unpunished.

 

[Yojimbo]

Giving games to Schache after his pathetic efforts would set a terrible precedent. Say what you want about English but at least he competes. If a player refuses to compete like Schache did they just cannot be given games. It has to be crystal clear that it's totally unacceptable to not go when it's your turn. I'd rather lose games than let pea-hearted efforts go unpunished.

While I agree with you ScragCity and love a bit of punishment four players had one kick in that game including
Schache, some honesty in realizing where we are at would suggest run with Schache for structure and to help
Naughton achieve some separation. Unless of course there is something else going on and even then the fans
would be the last to know.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

This is why we need a strong and experienced assistant. Someone to stand up and say 'no, putting Dunkley in the ruck and having Caleb one out at full back is f****** insane'.

You do realise that caleb one out at full back isn't planned? He ends up there because he works his ass off to get back.

 

[Yojimbo]

You do realise that caleb one out at full back isn't planned? He ends up there because he works his ass off to get back.

How many times a week do you see a turnover from the kick out after a point result in a mismatch when
the ball comes back in quickly. The Full Forward versus the smaller guy that usually does the kicking in,
this looks bad with Caleb because everyone is a mismatch.

 

[Allan Shorty]

I’d like to see premiership Roberts in. Lipinski in. Jongenator in. Take out 3 others.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

I’d like to see premiership Roberts in. Lipinski in. Jongenator in. Take out 3 others.

Jong not available.

 

[DognBones]

Jong not available.

Is there an injury, ailment or disease that Jongy hasn't had during his footy career? What next - leprosy, trenchfoot?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Is there an injury, ailment or disease that Jongy hasn't had during his footy career? What next - leprosy, trenchfoot?

At least he can only get his appendix out once...

... I think

 

[bresker]

You do realise that caleb one out at full back isn't planned? He ends up there because he works his ass off to get back.

I don’t think that’s entirely true. He’s the playmaker from deep & that’s why he finds himself there. He’s not in that Marty Boyd / Bob Murphy role sitting in front of the arc, sweeping off danger. His role is to sit deeper in the zone and create from there. I don’t believe it’s working.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

I don’t think that’s entirely true. He’s the playmaker from deep & that’s why he finds himself there. He’s not in that Marty Boyd / Bob Murphy role sitting in front of the arc, sweeping off danger. His role is to sit deeper in the zone and create from there. I don’t believe it’s working.

Next time it happens think back to what caused the opposition to get the ball. I can almost guarantee that it will be a poor kick turn over that catches the defenders transitioning into attack, out.

 

[BRWB]

I don’t think that’s entirely true. He’s the playmaker from deep & that’s why he finds himself there. He’s not in that Marty Boyd / Bob Murphy role sitting in front of the arc, sweeping off danger. His role is to sit deeper in the zone and create from there. I don’t believe it’s working.

And its not just his height, its his lack of penetration with his kicking. Teams have learnt his tricks and are closing up tight on him.

 

[BRWB]

Next time it happens think back to what caused the opposition to get the ball. I can almost guarantee that it will be a poor kick turn over that catches the defenders transitioning into attack, out.

And? Its Russsian roulette having Caleb deep back as we will always have turnovers. So its an absolute certainty he will get caught out.

Now that he has his confidence and form back he can go fwd where his height is far less of a risk and far more dangerous fwd helping us address our hideous I50 delivery.

Why risk the certainty that Caleb will be mismatched down back (even if its only on turnovrer which I doubt) when we can avoid that risk and use his ability to deliver fwd? Why limit our kick outs to inside 40m and a compressed zone on kickouts when that weakness isn't anywhere near as important fwd?

 

[bresker]

The most important stats in football

- kicking goals
- not conceding goals

That’s what we need to worry about now

 

[Del165892]

The most important stats in football

- kicking goals
- not conceding goals

That’s what we need to worry about now

The most important stats in football:

- winning
- not losing

That's what we need to worry about now.

 

[Libba39]

And its not just his height, its his lack of penetration with his kicking. Teams have learnt his tricks and are closing up tight on him.

I think Daniel is being played down back for two reasons.

The first is that yes, he's a good ball user. The second is that he is less likely to cop a pounding in the backline like he would in the midfield or forward line. Lets face it he's a tiny unit and he'll have more longevity in the game if we can reduce the chance of him getting crunched.

Still, it seems like teams have worked out this 'plan', meaning that they are starting to corral him and pick him off.

 

[Dogs Rule]

You do realise that caleb one out at full back ¥
isn't planned? He ends up there because he works his ass off to get back.

Absolutely, but if we picked a better balanced side he might have some support.

Put Trengove back, pick Roberts, persist with Lewis Young. Options are there.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

And? Its Russsian roulette having Caleb deep back as we will always have turnovers. So its an absolute certainty he will get caught out.

Now that he has his confidence and form back he can go fwd where his height is far less of a risk and far more dangerous fwd helping us address our hideous I50 delivery.

Why risk the certainty that Caleb will be mismatched down back (even if its only on turnovrer which I doubt) when we can avoid that risk and use his ability to deliver fwd? Why limit our kick outs to inside 40m and a compressed zone on kickouts when that weakness isn't anywhere near as important fwd?

You're looking at it all wrong. Yes there will be turn overs and whoever is back there will be caught out. It's more glaring with Daniel not because he is small, but because he is an elite runner who works his ass off to get back and actually provide some sort of a contest.
Given that we are losing nothing (he in fact is not getting caught out), why wouldn't you play him in a position that potentially gives you a greater gain than elsewhere?

 

[bresker]

The most important stats in football:

- winning
- not losing

That's what we need to worry about now.

That was my succinct way of saying sometimes we get bogged down in looking at the details but we ignore the fundamentals; Daniel deep is a microcosm of the macrocosm .

That must be the wankist thing I’ve ever posted but I stand by it

 

[Martyn_30_]

I don’t think that’s entirely true. He’s the playmaker from deep & that’s why he finds himself there. He’s not in that Marty Boyd / Bob Murphy role sitting in front of the arc, sweeping off danger. His role is to sit deeper in the zone and create from there. I don’t believe it’s working.

Daniel is always the highest defender regardless of who’s there at every centre bounce. He’s only ever deep because he’s covering for someone else.


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[footyfan000001]

Next time it happens think back to what caused the opposition to get the ball. I can almost guarantee that it will be a poor kick turn over that catches the defenders transitioning into attack, out.

I always assumed the Daniel getting caught at full back was due to a shocking turnover, Daniel working back hard but also smart forward rotations from opposition that leads to Daniel ending up on a tall. It happens every game and I then try and wonder where on earth Cordy is, but he is probably setting up for an attack.

 

[BRWB]

You're looking at it all wrong. Yes there will be turn overs and whoever is back there will be caught out. It's more glaring with Daniel not because he is small, but because he is an elite runner who works his ass off to get back and actually provide some sort of a contest.
Given that we are losing nothing (he in fact is not getting caught out), why wouldn't you play him in a position that potentially gives you a greater gain than elsewhere?

Maybe, just maybe, someone disagreeing with you doesn't mean they are looking at it wrong?

He is getting caught out and will continue to do so. His height makes him uncompetitive. The Roughead one was hilariously bad. Other regulalrly sized players can provide a better contest. What we also don't know is how much additional hassle and stress other backs are put under to ensure the Caleb mismatch doesn't occur.

And you are assuming a gain that isn't there. His lack of penetration in his kicking is a real weakness and the opposition is on to it.

I stand by my view that Caleb back is an unnecesary risk as his strengths could be just as valuable fwd while the inherent risks posed by his weaknesses would be mititgated.

In fact the use of Caleb back is emblematic of a coach who continues to take unnecessary risks. From playing proven awful set shots like Dunkely fwd, to not picking enough talls, to always wanting to pick the youngest team, to having nearly the best clearance player in the league fwd, to rucking with relative dwarves, etc. Bevo seems to think the basic rules of successful footy don't apply to him.Caleb deep back doing kickouts is a prime example.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Next Waiting]

Is there an injury, ailment or disease that Jongy hasn't had during his footy career? What next - leprosy, trenchfoot?

Lin Jong (Scurvy) 2 - 3 weeks

 

[bresker]

Lin Jong (Scurvy) 2 - 3 weeks

Matt Dougie says “I knew he was a lemon but.....”